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Hi all
Many here do not know much about Islam
Or misunderstood
So I opened this topic for all to ask what they want about Islam and I'll answer
Many here do not know much about Islam
Or misunderstood
So I opened this topic for all to ask what they want about Islam and I'll answer
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Nin wrote:
If the parents aren't the strongest influence, kids will find a new God to follow.
That's a good point mate,think in some cases that is exactly what happens.
This thread has reminded me of the film Frailty,got the DVD boxed up somewhere.Must dig it out and give it a watch,haven't seen it in ages.
If the parents aren't the strongest influence, kids will find a new God to follow.
That's a good point mate,think in some cases that is exactly what happens.
This thread has reminded me of the film Frailty,got the DVD boxed up somewhere.Must dig it out and give it a watch,haven't seen it in ages.
pete_21 wrote:
In most of the cases to which I was referring ,the kids got in with an undesirable crowd and the parents pretty much lost control of them.
Same here but the problems set in before that point because the parents hadn't fully established control and had just been rolling along assuming things would stay that way. It does go back to the "Parents as Gods" thing I mentioned. If the parents aren't the strongest influence, kids will find a new God to follow.
Perhaps the parents could have been stronger and prevented it ?,or maybe when certain kids get to an age where they realise the limits a parent can enforce they simply act as they like ?.
"My house, my rules" works for all ages but it has to be introduced earlier and ruthlessly enforced. You can't wait until they're 12 and then start telling them what to do.
In most of the cases to which I was referring ,the kids got in with an undesirable crowd and the parents pretty much lost control of them.
Same here but the problems set in before that point because the parents hadn't fully established control and had just been rolling along assuming things would stay that way. It does go back to the "Parents as Gods" thing I mentioned. If the parents aren't the strongest influence, kids will find a new God to follow.
Perhaps the parents could have been stronger and prevented it ?,or maybe when certain kids get to an age where they realise the limits a parent can enforce they simply act as they like ?.
"My house, my rules" works for all ages but it has to be introduced earlier and ruthlessly enforced. You can't wait until they're 12 and then start telling them what to do.
Nin wrote:
Appearances can be deceptive. Being "decent people" doesn't necessarily make them good parents, actually in my experience it usually makes them weak.
In most of the cases to which I was referring ,the kids got in with an undesirable crowd and the parents pretty much lost control of them.Perhaps the parents could have been stronger and prevented it ?,or maybe when certain kids get to an age where they realise the limits a parent can enforce they simply act as they like ?.
Appearances can be deceptive. Being "decent people" doesn't necessarily make them good parents, actually in my experience it usually makes them weak.
In most of the cases to which I was referring ,the kids got in with an undesirable crowd and the parents pretty much lost control of them.Perhaps the parents could have been stronger and prevented it ?,or maybe when certain kids get to an age where they realise the limits a parent can enforce they simply act as they like ?.
pete_21 wrote:
I know a couple of decent people who I would class as good parents and their offspring have turned out to be little b******s.If those kids thought they were going to spend eternity in the burning fires of hell with Satan ramming a red hot poker up their gearbox then perhaps they might have turned out a little differently
Appearances can be deceptive. Being "decent people" doesn't necessarily make them good parents, actually in my experience it usually makes them weak.
I know a couple of decent people who I would class as good parents and their offspring have turned out to be little b******s.If those kids thought they were going to spend eternity in the burning fires of hell with Satan ramming a red hot poker up their gearbox then perhaps they might have turned out a little differently
Appearances can be deceptive. Being "decent people" doesn't necessarily make them good parents, actually in my experience it usually makes them weak.
Nin wrote:
More to the point, why should a man who has never done anything wrong in his life be condemned for a lack of faith?
It's a question that comes up many times as many different religions all have the same way of determining entrance requirements to their version of Heaven.
The answer is different depending on what version of the religions you subscribe to, ranging from the hardline: "Since God is everywhere and can do anything then there is a reason why that person wasn't chosen to hear the word." to the current Catholic translation of the bible which says that Heaven is merely the top step of the afterlife and God takes in to account whether you have heard the 'good news' or not, those who lead good lives go to the afterlife, those who atone for their sins and believe in God and Jesus go to heaven and those who have been evil go to Hell. It's more complicated than that, but that's the dumbed down version anyway.
Then you have the idea that if you don't believe in God it doesn't really matter anyway because you don't believe in Heaven. Plus you have the standard get-out clause that God allowed everyone free will.
My Muslim knowledge is shaky at best but I believe the teachings are down to translation of the Quran and other texts as much as they are to the original teachings and as I mentioned in my last post, they are resistant to re-interpretation.
Other religions believe in a rebirth process to be re-incarnated based on your deeds in your present life. Technically, you could argue that Atheists believe no one should be let in to Heaven (because Heaven doesn't exist) ...
More to the point, why should a man who has never done anything wrong in his life be condemned for a lack of faith?
It's a question that comes up many times as many different religions all have the same way of determining entrance requirements to their version of Heaven.
The answer is different depending on what version of the religions you subscribe to, ranging from the hardline: "Since God is everywhere and can do anything then there is a reason why that person wasn't chosen to hear the word." to the current Catholic translation of the bible which says that Heaven is merely the top step of the afterlife and God takes in to account whether you have heard the 'good news' or not, those who lead good lives go to the afterlife, those who atone for their sins and believe in God and Jesus go to heaven and those who have been evil go to Hell. It's more complicated than that, but that's the dumbed down version anyway.
Then you have the idea that if you don't believe in God it doesn't really matter anyway because you don't believe in Heaven. Plus you have the standard get-out clause that God allowed everyone free will.
My Muslim knowledge is shaky at best but I believe the teachings are down to translation of the Quran and other texts as much as they are to the original teachings and as I mentioned in my last post, they are resistant to re-interpretation.
Other religions believe in a rebirth process to be re-incarnated based on your deeds in your present life. Technically, you could argue that Atheists believe no one should be let in to Heaven (because Heaven doesn't exist) ...
That pretty much highlights my point about religion being used as the scapegoat for everything wrong with the world. It isn't religion that causes wars or hate but the people who use it as a tool.
It works both ways too. Organised religion is responsible for many bad things, but you need to then look at what 'organised religion' really means. It isn't the religion, or the faith, itself, it's a body set up to enforce rules they 'believe' to be the true rules of that religion. As with science, though, they need to change to take into account new findings and research, better understanding of the texts and better translation and also different theories behind what these teachings mean in the context of the modern world.
One very recent example is the Pope's stance on using condoms has now officially changed. "About time" many will say, but it's a huge change for the established church in Rome even if many of us realised it needed to happen 20 years ago. And all of this has come about because of several very small pieces of text in the Bible which didn't explicitly say the use of contraception wasn't allowed and actually referred to the contraception used at the time (yes, they did have methods) rather than now.
Islam is more resistant to change to some extent, the orthodoxy is far harder to change and hardline Musilms resist any re-interpretation to the Quran and the Hadith despite many huge groups of intellectual Muslims who debate the translations and interpretations with reasoned arguments
Either way the issue is with the organisation representing the faith rather than the faith itself.
It works both ways too. Organised religion is responsible for many bad things, but you need to then look at what 'organised religion' really means. It isn't the religion, or the faith, itself, it's a body set up to enforce rules they 'believe' to be the true rules of that religion. As with science, though, they need to change to take into account new findings and research, better understanding of the texts and better translation and also different theories behind what these teachings mean in the context of the modern world.
One very recent example is the Pope's stance on using condoms has now officially changed. "About time" many will say, but it's a huge change for the established church in Rome even if many of us realised it needed to happen 20 years ago. And all of this has come about because of several very small pieces of text in the Bible which didn't explicitly say the use of contraception wasn't allowed and actually referred to the contraception used at the time (yes, they did have methods) rather than now.
Islam is more resistant to change to some extent, the orthodoxy is far harder to change and hardline Musilms resist any re-interpretation to the Quran and the Hadith despite many huge groups of intellectual Muslims who debate the translations and interpretations with reasoned arguments
Either way the issue is with the organisation representing the faith rather than the faith itself.
Nin wrote:
Good parenting nullifies the need for God in my view. You want to know where you come from, why you're here, that you're loved, that someone is looking out for you? A good parent will provide all that, far better than some inactive, omni-present but terminally invisible concept
I know a couple of decent people who I would class as good parents and their offspring have turned out to be little b******s.If those kids thought they were going to spend eternity in the burning fires of hell with Satan ramming a red hot poker up their gearbox then perhaps they might have turned out a little differently ?.I'm a very skeptical person myself,don't believe in ghosts,demons,aliens,god or decent dance music and I feel I have turned out alright.I felt I have known right from wrong from a very early age and have chosen my path in life accordingly.
Good parenting nullifies the need for God in my view. You want to know where you come from, why you're here, that you're loved, that someone is looking out for you? A good parent will provide all that, far better than some inactive, omni-present but terminally invisible concept
I know a couple of decent people who I would class as good parents and their offspring have turned out to be little b******s.If those kids thought they were going to spend eternity in the burning fires of hell with Satan ramming a red hot poker up their gearbox then perhaps they might have turned out a little differently ?.I'm a very skeptical person myself,don't believe in ghosts,demons,aliens,god or decent dance music and I feel I have turned out alright.I felt I have known right from wrong from a very early age and have chosen my path in life accordingly.
pete_21 wrote:
If someone's religion is a way of teaching people right from wrong is it really such a bad thing?
The catholic stance on contraception and the resulting spread of disease?
I do genuinely feel that many kids today act however they like because they have no fear of consequence.If they thought some dude with a big lightning hammer was going to take them down perhaps they may act a little differently ?
I love it when people give me the chance to quote... me.
"The only Gods children need to believe in are their mother and father"
You're right on the first part, they seem largely oblivious to consequence but why use the story of an invisible magicman threatening them when there is a far more practical solution available. How about parents do their damn job and keep their kids in check.
Good parenting nullifies the need for God in my view. You want to know where you come from, why you're here, that you're loved, that someone is looking out for you? A good parent will provide all that, far better than some inactive, omni-present but terminally invisible concept
If someone's religion is a way of teaching people right from wrong is it really such a bad thing?
The catholic stance on contraception and the resulting spread of disease?
I do genuinely feel that many kids today act however they like because they have no fear of consequence.If they thought some dude with a big lightning hammer was going to take them down perhaps they may act a little differently ?
I love it when people give me the chance to quote... me.
"The only Gods children need to believe in are their mother and father"
You're right on the first part, they seem largely oblivious to consequence but why use the story of an invisible magicman threatening them when there is a far more practical solution available. How about parents do their damn job and keep their kids in check.
Good parenting nullifies the need for God in my view. You want to know where you come from, why you're here, that you're loved, that someone is looking out for you? A good parent will provide all that, far better than some inactive, omni-present but terminally invisible concept
pete_21 wrote:
If someone's religion is a way of teaching people right from wrong is it really such a bad thing ?.(extreme's of any religion are never a positive thing IMO,but that is another argument entirely).I do genuinely feel that many kids today act however they like because they have no fear of consequence.If they thought some dude with a big lightning hammer was going to take them down perhaps they may act a little differently ?
Do you not think that would be a quick and lazy way out? Who knows, religion could be a factor in what sends some kids off the rails. You know what teens are like, try and enforce anything, they'll just hit back as hard as they possibly can. Failing that, they'll ignore you and tell you to shut up :P (nothing personal pete, but it's true ;D)
[S](obligatory smiley,just incase I have incurred the wrath of some greater being)[S]
lol :P
If someone's religion is a way of teaching people right from wrong is it really such a bad thing ?.(extreme's of any religion are never a positive thing IMO,but that is another argument entirely).I do genuinely feel that many kids today act however they like because they have no fear of consequence.If they thought some dude with a big lightning hammer was going to take them down perhaps they may act a little differently ?
Do you not think that would be a quick and lazy way out? Who knows, religion could be a factor in what sends some kids off the rails. You know what teens are like, try and enforce anything, they'll just hit back as hard as they possibly can. Failing that, they'll ignore you and tell you to shut up :P (nothing personal pete, but it's true ;D)
[S](obligatory smiley,just incase I have incurred the wrath of some greater being)[S]
lol :P
If someone's religion is a way of teaching people right from wrong is it really such a bad thing ?.(extreme's of any religion are never a positive thing IMO,but that is another argument entirely).I do genuinely feel that many kids today act however they like because they have no fear of consequence.If they thought some dude with a big lightning hammer was going to take them down perhaps they may act a little differently ?.Or maybe I am talking right through my backside after reaching the bottom of a rather lovely bottle of Shiraz :)
[S](obligatory smiley,just incase I have incurred the wrath of some greater being)[S]
[S](obligatory smiley,just incase I have incurred the wrath of some greater being)[S]
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