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I have something to say to all you non-God types..
1. God does exsist, He created you, He can destroy you
2. Ya know the 'Big Bang' theory? Me and my mom belive it, So? What if God made noise while he created Earth, no one is silent
3. Why are you even bringing this subject up? It's pointless and you'll never win...
-God Bless, I'm prayin' for ya!
PS:God exists, you know it! Don't deny it! He has done something for you in the past so be thankfull there is a God
taken from: letssingit.com
1. God does exsist, He created you, He can destroy you
2. Ya know the 'Big Bang' theory? Me and my mom belive it, So? What if God made noise while he created Earth, no one is silent
3. Why are you even bringing this subject up? It's pointless and you'll never win...
-God Bless, I'm prayin' for ya!
PS:God exists, you know it! Don't deny it! He has done something for you in the past so be thankfull there is a God
taken from: letssingit.com
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To give my valued opinion, I feel sorry for any poor sucker who is religious.
I myself live my life for myself, not for something that doesn't exist.
Besides, it always makes me laugh about the myth that if you behave badly you will go to hell and suffer in pain. Surely Satan would welcome anyone who ignored God and behaved badly and would reward them.
Yep, you can stick your religion. I'll stay in bed on a Sunday morning like most normal people.
I myself live my life for myself, not for something that doesn't exist.
Besides, it always makes me laugh about the myth that if you behave badly you will go to hell and suffer in pain. Surely Satan would welcome anyone who ignored God and behaved badly and would reward them.
Yep, you can stick your religion. I'll stay in bed on a Sunday morning like most normal people.
a fair point but lets not forget that all religion was recorded originally by the people who saw or who were told about events that happened. as the stories have been passed down over millenia, it is reasonable to assume that these accounts could have been distorted or even made up. Hey I don't believe in religion, I'm actually against it, but still respect people who choose to believe. some of my friends are religious, and we could argue til the cows come home, neither of us will convince each other.
I just cannot blindly believe in something that has no physical proof. that goes for aliens aswell. I believe they exist, but not that they have visited earth, I even doubt they will before we a) destroy ourselves, or b) the earth is burnt to a crisp by our dying sun. the universe is just too vast.
I just cannot blindly believe in something that has no physical proof. that goes for aliens aswell. I believe they exist, but not that they have visited earth, I even doubt they will before we a) destroy ourselves, or b) the earth is burnt to a crisp by our dying sun. the universe is just too vast.
Another way of looking at this is like this;
How many here believe in UFO's and extraterrestrial's being on earth ? More than believe in any kind of religion I'll bet.
So logically more people believe in the equivalent of an urban myth thats mainly found in the West in the last 50 years, than something found in variations over millennia, and all over the world ?
~~Belldandy~~
How many here believe in UFO's and extraterrestrial's being on earth ? More than believe in any kind of religion I'll bet.
So logically more people believe in the equivalent of an urban myth thats mainly found in the West in the last 50 years, than something found in variations over millennia, and all over the world ?
~~Belldandy~~
That sounded a bit scary there Anty boy
Ah well it's something none of us will never know for you... or will we?
Dur Dur Dur
Ah well it's something none of us will never know for you... or will we?
Dur Dur Dur
T0R@X wrote:
> I am not real!
> I am just a figment of your imagination that some git thought up
> about 3000 yeas ago.
Thank God for that. Now go away before I insult you further.
It's cool to see a religious topic with almost 100 posts which isn't full of childish argument (apart from the above.)
My reasons for being a Christian are nothing too special - I wasn't in a particularly bad situation or anything, although my life has visibly improved since (especially confidence wise). I was at a Baptismal Service with my parents and I remember seeing all the people at the front, testifying, some of them crying. Some stories were amazing, and as the final hymn played God literally washed over me, I was almost crying.
It's hard to prove Christianity, because like Goatboy said, most of our belief is based on faith. As my pastor showed to me, their is some physical proof of Bible stories, but almost all of my belief is based on faith. Just a feeling that there's always someone there beside me.
I like talking and debating about this stuff here, because the last time I talked about it with a mate who wasn't a Christian he just said "miracles don't happen" and then refused to listen. Bah. :D
> I am not real!
> I am just a figment of your imagination that some git thought up
> about 3000 yeas ago.
Thank God for that. Now go away before I insult you further.
It's cool to see a religious topic with almost 100 posts which isn't full of childish argument (apart from the above.)
My reasons for being a Christian are nothing too special - I wasn't in a particularly bad situation or anything, although my life has visibly improved since (especially confidence wise). I was at a Baptismal Service with my parents and I remember seeing all the people at the front, testifying, some of them crying. Some stories were amazing, and as the final hymn played God literally washed over me, I was almost crying.
It's hard to prove Christianity, because like Goatboy said, most of our belief is based on faith. As my pastor showed to me, their is some physical proof of Bible stories, but almost all of my belief is based on faith. Just a feeling that there's always someone there beside me.
I like talking and debating about this stuff here, because the last time I talked about it with a mate who wasn't a Christian he just said "miracles don't happen" and then refused to listen. Bah. :D
God is not real!
He\she is just a figment of our imagenathion that some g*t thout up about 3000 yeas ago.
He\she is just a figment of our imagenathion that some g*t thout up about 3000 yeas ago.
The way I see this is there is something out there that we may never know or understand.
Lets go with religion first:
God creates earth = plants and animals etc = people = Jesus = Now
So where in the name of crap did God come from? Did he just appear and go oh lets make Earth.
And Science:
Gases react in space = Big Bang = Planets form including earth = evolution = NOW
So where did these things that caused big bang come from.
You can't just get something from nothing in my mind. Something needs to have created God or gases... so you get that answer... so what creates that answer and so on.
Screwed either way
There
Lets go with religion first:
God creates earth = plants and animals etc = people = Jesus = Now
So where in the name of crap did God come from? Did he just appear and go oh lets make Earth.
And Science:
Gases react in space = Big Bang = Planets form including earth = evolution = NOW
So where did these things that caused big bang come from.
You can't just get something from nothing in my mind. Something needs to have created God or gases... so you get that answer... so what creates that answer and so on.
Screwed either way
There
I appreciate you replying Flanders, and whilst I may not agree with you and the examples you provide, I'll damn well fight for your right to say them.
The problem I have, as do many others, is even the examples you provide are not irrefutable proof of the existence of God.
You say "some take the stories in the Bible..." or the Hebrew Scholars that discover the word in the exact middle of The Talmud (incidentally the exact word in the middle of The Koran is "ash", make of that what you will), it falls - time and time again - to personal interpretation and opinion as to what something signifies.
What I take as irrefutable proof is something I can hold in my hands that, without anybody else having to explain why or by deciphering codes, proves to me and me alone the existence of God.
Just as I do not 100% understand or believe the science version of events either.
Like I said earlier, Religion cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that any form of deity exists. Just as science cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their version is correct.
The only difference I percieve, and this is in no way a criticism, is that scientists at least show their workings instead of just presenting the answer and saying "Ah but you must believe me when I tell you this is the answer".
Science provides the methods, workings and reasonings to their beliefs wheras religion merely retreats into the "It's a question of faith".
Which I have zero problem with at all.
What I do have a problem with, and what I will always take issue with, are the zealots on both sides of this argument. Be it a foaming mouthed evangelisist or a sneering brainiac. To stand in front of people and to proclaim your version as the only correct one without being able to prove exactly why, how and where you arrived at that point is odious to me.
The states in America like Arkansas and Utah that have forbidden the teaching of evolutionary theory in schools frighten me. We are heading back towards the dark-ages if we are not allowed to explore and express every form of thought we wish to.
And I find it especially ironic and dullard that hardline religious folk are the most intolerant of all. You wish to band the teaching of evolutionary theory? But isn't God responsible for free will? Surely to remove the free will of someone to learn about a subject is to say "God actually meant..." - a level of presumption I find amusing and arrogant.
If you believe in God, then you believe in tolerance, love, peace, understanding and the enlightenment of others. So to tell another person they are wrong/damned to hell/foolish for not believing is something I dont understand at all.
And if you know for a fact that god exists, then why should it bother you that others dont? They'll get theirs when the trumpets sound so why worry? Just relax, enjoy your religion and reap eternal reward when the time comes.
---
This has turned into more of a general thesis on religion as opposed to directly addressing Flanders - sorry mate, when I speak of "you" towards the end of my thoughts, it is "you" as a whole not yourself personally.
And what I deem to be absolute proof of the existence of god is something that leaves no doubt in anybody's mind at all. Unquestionably proves, beyond one single person's mind that god exists.
Now I'm off to play video games and smoke.
The problem I have, as do many others, is even the examples you provide are not irrefutable proof of the existence of God.
You say "some take the stories in the Bible..." or the Hebrew Scholars that discover the word in the exact middle of The Talmud (incidentally the exact word in the middle of The Koran is "ash", make of that what you will), it falls - time and time again - to personal interpretation and opinion as to what something signifies.
What I take as irrefutable proof is something I can hold in my hands that, without anybody else having to explain why or by deciphering codes, proves to me and me alone the existence of God.
Just as I do not 100% understand or believe the science version of events either.
Like I said earlier, Religion cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that any form of deity exists. Just as science cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their version is correct.
The only difference I percieve, and this is in no way a criticism, is that scientists at least show their workings instead of just presenting the answer and saying "Ah but you must believe me when I tell you this is the answer".
Science provides the methods, workings and reasonings to their beliefs wheras religion merely retreats into the "It's a question of faith".
Which I have zero problem with at all.
What I do have a problem with, and what I will always take issue with, are the zealots on both sides of this argument. Be it a foaming mouthed evangelisist or a sneering brainiac. To stand in front of people and to proclaim your version as the only correct one without being able to prove exactly why, how and where you arrived at that point is odious to me.
The states in America like Arkansas and Utah that have forbidden the teaching of evolutionary theory in schools frighten me. We are heading back towards the dark-ages if we are not allowed to explore and express every form of thought we wish to.
And I find it especially ironic and dullard that hardline religious folk are the most intolerant of all. You wish to band the teaching of evolutionary theory? But isn't God responsible for free will? Surely to remove the free will of someone to learn about a subject is to say "God actually meant..." - a level of presumption I find amusing and arrogant.
If you believe in God, then you believe in tolerance, love, peace, understanding and the enlightenment of others. So to tell another person they are wrong/damned to hell/foolish for not believing is something I dont understand at all.
And if you know for a fact that god exists, then why should it bother you that others dont? They'll get theirs when the trumpets sound so why worry? Just relax, enjoy your religion and reap eternal reward when the time comes.
---
This has turned into more of a general thesis on religion as opposed to directly addressing Flanders - sorry mate, when I speak of "you" towards the end of my thoughts, it is "you" as a whole not yourself personally.
And what I deem to be absolute proof of the existence of god is something that leaves no doubt in anybody's mind at all. Unquestionably proves, beyond one single person's mind that god exists.
Now I'm off to play video games and smoke.
Once again, a very interesting topic - with rational arguments from all contributors. Aside from the very first post.
Quite frankly, I found the title post insulting and offensive. I haven't quite worked out if it was meant to be inflamatory, but given the level-headedness of the recent posts, I figured not.
Unfortunately, it's exactly this kind of attitude that gives religion a bad name, the "I'm right, you're wrong" point of view (which doesn't seem to be shared by most of the rest of the forum), and which smacks of arrogance.
Other than that, I enjoyed reading it.
Quite frankly, I found the title post insulting and offensive. I haven't quite worked out if it was meant to be inflamatory, but given the level-headedness of the recent posts, I figured not.
Unfortunately, it's exactly this kind of attitude that gives religion a bad name, the "I'm right, you're wrong" point of view (which doesn't seem to be shared by most of the rest of the forum), and which smacks of arrogance.
Other than that, I enjoyed reading it.
Goatboy wrote:
Some stuff
>
> Such as?
> I enjoy debating this subject with you a great deal, as we both
> respect each other's opinions and can hold a civilised conversation
> about it.
How civilised :)
> So with absolute seriousness, what proof is there? By proof, I mean
> something you can show to me that is irrefutable proof of the
> existence of god. I dont mean "He spoke to me", because that
> is for you and you alone to experience and believe.
Proof eh ? Depends on what you actually read in to the bible. For many people the proof of the miracles as performed by Jesus are enough - for Jews and others all of the things in the old testament are enough. For others still it's just a work of fiction.
Then there are those who look at things like the bible codes - all the "secret" codings that are hidden in the original Hebrew and Greek texts ( All these idiots that come up with revelations based on English translations are just jerks I'm afraid !)
Did you know that the word that is in the exact centre of the Torah (The first five books) is God, did you also know that both of the 1st two and fourth and fifth books contain an identical word pattern that points to this exact centre ? probably not and you probably dont care either !
Lot's of people that want to belive but can't use this kind of stuff as their evidence that the books could only have been written by a supreme intelligence (God ?) there are hundreds and thousands of these kinds of things hidden a way in the bible and yes people will say that there are so many words that some patterns are bound to come up. They dont appear in War and Peace though ! hmmmm. That one will soon be knocked down no doubt.
There is an amazing amount of archealogical (sp!) evidence out there to agree with stuff in the bible - people take that as historical evidence though rather than theological evidence - hey ho.
Scientists now know the correct order for the creation of life - how strange is it that Genesis - if it was written by some dumb peasent 4000 years ago actually has the stages in the correct order - just a good guess by whoever the first scribe was - or was it written with actual knowledge of the process involved. ?
A few points to be thrown back at me ( Go IB !)
My God is definately real.
Some stuff
>
> Such as?
> I enjoy debating this subject with you a great deal, as we both
> respect each other's opinions and can hold a civilised conversation
> about it.
How civilised :)
> So with absolute seriousness, what proof is there? By proof, I mean
> something you can show to me that is irrefutable proof of the
> existence of god. I dont mean "He spoke to me", because that
> is for you and you alone to experience and believe.
Proof eh ? Depends on what you actually read in to the bible. For many people the proof of the miracles as performed by Jesus are enough - for Jews and others all of the things in the old testament are enough. For others still it's just a work of fiction.
Then there are those who look at things like the bible codes - all the "secret" codings that are hidden in the original Hebrew and Greek texts ( All these idiots that come up with revelations based on English translations are just jerks I'm afraid !)
Did you know that the word that is in the exact centre of the Torah (The first five books) is God, did you also know that both of the 1st two and fourth and fifth books contain an identical word pattern that points to this exact centre ? probably not and you probably dont care either !
Lot's of people that want to belive but can't use this kind of stuff as their evidence that the books could only have been written by a supreme intelligence (God ?) there are hundreds and thousands of these kinds of things hidden a way in the bible and yes people will say that there are so many words that some patterns are bound to come up. They dont appear in War and Peace though ! hmmmm. That one will soon be knocked down no doubt.
There is an amazing amount of archealogical (sp!) evidence out there to agree with stuff in the bible - people take that as historical evidence though rather than theological evidence - hey ho.
Scientists now know the correct order for the creation of life - how strange is it that Genesis - if it was written by some dumb peasent 4000 years ago actually has the stages in the correct order - just a good guess by whoever the first scribe was - or was it written with actual knowledge of the process involved. ?
A few points to be thrown back at me ( Go IB !)
My God is definately real.
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