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You think you're so smart with your nice new GameCubes. Happy with them are you? I know you are, you've told us enough times. Especially "Oooh, this controller is fantastic, it's much better than all the other controllers I've used".
Bollards.
Why can't you see it's exactly the same as the DualShock 2 but with less features? Let's run through this:
· D-pad - check
· Two analog sticks - check
· Four main buttons - check
· Shoulder buttons - check
· Rumble - nope
· Full analog on ALL buttons - nope
· 4 shoulder buttons - nope
· Analog sticks as sensitive as the DualShock 2 - nope
· Ability to drop for storeys and still work perfectly - nope
Excuse me if I'm wrong but surely if it's the SAME shape with the SAME layout but with less functions, that makes it worse? Oh no, sorry, I'm missing out the facts that it's purple and made by Nintendo, that automatically makes it far superior, I'm terribly sorry.
I dare any of you to prove to me that the GameCube controller is better than the DualShock 2 - and saying that "it's more comfortable" is a cop-out.
Bollards.
Why can't you see it's exactly the same as the DualShock 2 but with less features? Let's run through this:
· D-pad - check
· Two analog sticks - check
· Four main buttons - check
· Shoulder buttons - check
· Rumble - nope
· Full analog on ALL buttons - nope
· 4 shoulder buttons - nope
· Analog sticks as sensitive as the DualShock 2 - nope
· Ability to drop for storeys and still work perfectly - nope
Excuse me if I'm wrong but surely if it's the SAME shape with the SAME layout but with less functions, that makes it worse? Oh no, sorry, I'm missing out the facts that it's purple and made by Nintendo, that automatically makes it far superior, I'm terribly sorry.
I dare any of you to prove to me that the GameCube controller is better than the DualShock 2 - and saying that "it's more comfortable" is a cop-out.
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Sibs wrote:
> What was the original PSX pad...? A hyped up SNES pad in essence.
"In essence".
"In essence" every game controller is the same, it's only the shape that differs.
This website:
http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/NintendoSNES.htm
Has a photo of the SNES and its controller. Apart from a D-pad and four buttons (which all controllers have, and always have had), I fail to see how this is in any way similar to a DualShock.
(And only two controller ports... golly gosh, that's criminal! ;-)
It's flat, which makes it difficult to hold. I know because I once had an identical controller for my first PC. The original PlayStation controller had no analogue sticks, but was shaped to maximise comfort and grip. And of course, incorporated six extra buttons for extra control and configuration options.
Any similarities are likely to have come from Nintendo's initial involvement with Sony on the project (it was supposed to be their idea after all), before they decided that the CD format 'wouldn't work' and abruptly left Sony in the lurch. (Of course we know now that Sony stuck with the vision, and the rest is history.)
Then of course you have the twin motors, which can be run independently of each other, and at different speeds, giving enhanced feedback rather than just a basic rumble.
> the Duel Shock pad was just Sonys reaction to Nintendo releasing the
> N64 with an analogue stick. They realised they looked behind the times
> with just a D-pad
Ahem. Atari had analohue sticks on their consoles before Nintendo had even released a home machine. Surely it is therefore Nintendo who took the retrograde step of releasing a non-analogue controller?
> so stuck two sticks on theirs in an attempt to make
> the pad look more advanced. Then the two extra prongs hardly got used.
Which is entirely the fault of developers, and not Sony. As with the N64, the sticks were there for any developer wishing to support them.
It is likely that they were under-used because the DualShock was not the standard PS1 controller, and therefore not everyone had them. However there was no reason that developers couldn't include analogue code for those that did.
I also think it's likely that the positioning of thie sticks was also determined by the fact that the DualShock wasn't the standard controller. People would have been used to the standard configuration, and moving things around would not have been particularly wise.
It would also have been unwise to play around with the layout of the DualShock2 because of the backwards-compatibility of the PS2 itself.
> And yes, I agree with Srafex in that the analogue sticks on the Dual
> shock two are not placed appropriately to promote them as the primary
> movement device thingy
I personally find that the positioning requires no grip change to switch between D-pad to left stick, and that it gives the controller a more balanced feel. But as I said, it's all about personal preference.
As you will no doubt be aware,
If you want to complain about copied joypads, I'd direct your attention to the Xbox, where Microsoft have even copied button layout.
> ... On GameCube the left hand analogue stick is
> placed for primary use, and the right hand one was never intended for
> primary use anyway...
Of course, in both cases you are talking about an approximate distance of about an inch and a half.
Of course, if you want to be really, REALLY picky, then in fact ... *whips out ruler* ... the distance between the centre of the D-pad and the centre of the left analogue stick is smaller on the DualShock (1.25 inches) than on the Gamecube controller (1.5 inches), meaning less movement required and therefore smoother transition between controls.
Additionally, in a frantic moment, it is also easier to hit the right direction on the DualShock D-pad than on the GC D-pad because it is larger.
Of course, the question is - if the SNES controller was so perfect, why did Nintendo move away from it and come up with the (in my opinion) god-awful N64 controller? I only used one once, on my cousin's N64, and it was the most hellishly awful gaming experience I've ever had. In fact, I'd have to say that I even prefer the Xbox controller to that of the N64.
Personally I prefer the DualShock2, but only just. The Gamecube controller is extremely comfortable, and I felt right at home with it when I first picked it up. But for me just loses out because I find the grips too narrow, the D-pad too small, and the Z-button ridiculously placed. But there really isn't that much in it.
However for the sake of being pedantic, I do have to say that it is a much closer copy of the DualShock than the DualShock was of the SNES controller.
Anyway, to sum up... as I said in the previous post, this is all about personal preference, and what makes the individual most comfortable when playing a game. We may as well be arguing over whether Nike Air trainers are better than Asics Gel trainers.
> What was the original PSX pad...? A hyped up SNES pad in essence.
"In essence".
"In essence" every game controller is the same, it's only the shape that differs.
This website:
http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/NintendoSNES.htm
Has a photo of the SNES and its controller. Apart from a D-pad and four buttons (which all controllers have, and always have had), I fail to see how this is in any way similar to a DualShock.
(And only two controller ports... golly gosh, that's criminal! ;-)
It's flat, which makes it difficult to hold. I know because I once had an identical controller for my first PC. The original PlayStation controller had no analogue sticks, but was shaped to maximise comfort and grip. And of course, incorporated six extra buttons for extra control and configuration options.
Any similarities are likely to have come from Nintendo's initial involvement with Sony on the project (it was supposed to be their idea after all), before they decided that the CD format 'wouldn't work' and abruptly left Sony in the lurch. (Of course we know now that Sony stuck with the vision, and the rest is history.)
Then of course you have the twin motors, which can be run independently of each other, and at different speeds, giving enhanced feedback rather than just a basic rumble.
> the Duel Shock pad was just Sonys reaction to Nintendo releasing the
> N64 with an analogue stick. They realised they looked behind the times
> with just a D-pad
Ahem. Atari had analohue sticks on their consoles before Nintendo had even released a home machine. Surely it is therefore Nintendo who took the retrograde step of releasing a non-analogue controller?
> so stuck two sticks on theirs in an attempt to make
> the pad look more advanced. Then the two extra prongs hardly got used.
Which is entirely the fault of developers, and not Sony. As with the N64, the sticks were there for any developer wishing to support them.
It is likely that they were under-used because the DualShock was not the standard PS1 controller, and therefore not everyone had them. However there was no reason that developers couldn't include analogue code for those that did.
I also think it's likely that the positioning of thie sticks was also determined by the fact that the DualShock wasn't the standard controller. People would have been used to the standard configuration, and moving things around would not have been particularly wise.
It would also have been unwise to play around with the layout of the DualShock2 because of the backwards-compatibility of the PS2 itself.
> And yes, I agree with Srafex in that the analogue sticks on the Dual
> shock two are not placed appropriately to promote them as the primary
> movement device thingy
I personally find that the positioning requires no grip change to switch between D-pad to left stick, and that it gives the controller a more balanced feel. But as I said, it's all about personal preference.
As you will no doubt be aware,
If you want to complain about copied joypads, I'd direct your attention to the Xbox, where Microsoft have even copied button layout.
> ... On GameCube the left hand analogue stick is
> placed for primary use, and the right hand one was never intended for
> primary use anyway...
Of course, in both cases you are talking about an approximate distance of about an inch and a half.
Of course, if you want to be really, REALLY picky, then in fact ... *whips out ruler* ... the distance between the centre of the D-pad and the centre of the left analogue stick is smaller on the DualShock (1.25 inches) than on the Gamecube controller (1.5 inches), meaning less movement required and therefore smoother transition between controls.
Additionally, in a frantic moment, it is also easier to hit the right direction on the DualShock D-pad than on the GC D-pad because it is larger.
Of course, the question is - if the SNES controller was so perfect, why did Nintendo move away from it and come up with the (in my opinion) god-awful N64 controller? I only used one once, on my cousin's N64, and it was the most hellishly awful gaming experience I've ever had. In fact, I'd have to say that I even prefer the Xbox controller to that of the N64.
Personally I prefer the DualShock2, but only just. The Gamecube controller is extremely comfortable, and I felt right at home with it when I first picked it up. But for me just loses out because I find the grips too narrow, the D-pad too small, and the Z-button ridiculously placed. But there really isn't that much in it.
However for the sake of being pedantic, I do have to say that it is a much closer copy of the DualShock than the DualShock was of the SNES controller.
Anyway, to sum up... as I said in the previous post, this is all about personal preference, and what makes the individual most comfortable when playing a game. We may as well be arguing over whether Nike Air trainers are better than Asics Gel trainers.
Grix Thraves wrote:
> *takes off hat to Turbo*
Why? Is he actually a she then?
> *takes off hat to Turbo*
Why? Is he actually a she then?
*takes off hat to Turbo*
Just like to say that the GC controller is the only one I have used without having to think about what to do - either the gamesa are so good, or the controller works like an extension of you.
More likely both.
;-)
More likely both.
;-)
½pint don't you dare make him stop its funny, the good old days.
To add something extra the pad is based on Nintendo's virtual boy pad not the PS2 one, god stop flattering yourself.
I've not joined in this conversation before, so since its long this has probably been said before, but...
...Turbonutter, you've let yourself down. Not only have you got your facts wrong about the GameCube joypad, but you've also got it wrong about the PS2 joypad.
Firstly, the D-Pad is one hell of a lot better than the PS2 d-pad. Its the same as the one on the GameBoy and all the variations, and obviously Nintendo know that you can't alter a classic.
The GC controller isn't meant to have two fully analogue sticks - the C-Stick is there for camera control. And the GameCube analogue stick proper is far more sensitive than the PS2. Ever played Super Monkey Ball? If that doesn't make my point, try using a converter and playing it with a PS2 controller. Its impossible, because despite having the very strange amount of 256 degrees of pressure/motion whatever, its very stiff and makes it annoying to control. Added to that, the top of it hasn't got a decent grip so on a particularly concentrative game, you're sweaty fingers are sliding all over the place. Although not as much, this is also the case with the GC controller, and the only console with a joystick which IS decet is the Xbox.
The four main buttons are much better placed on the GC controller, because they're all close to the main A button, rather than in a crappy square pattern. It means they're easy to reach, easy to press and better designed. They stick out more than on the PS2, but it means you can push them in more.
The shoulder buttons on the GameCube are so much better than on the PS2, its funny. Not only are they proper triggers and the controller is designed so your fingers lie on them (not just when you need to use them), but they're technically 2 buttons in one because when pushed all the way in there is another button which clicks. I admit the Z button isn't very well placed, but it isn't a button where you're meant to have a finger all the time - its there to activate small things like centering the camera and so on.
I can't understand why you deny the GameCube controller having rumble, especially since its much stronger and hence more effective than on the PS2.
Oh, and let me put it this way - I dropper my saxophone, in its case which is very, very heavy, on top of my GameCube controller and it didn't break. Surprisingly, it did f*** up the analogue stick on my PS2 controller which was right next to it. The PS2 pad is stronger? Whatever...
And the PS2 buttons arent' all analogue, only X, Sq, T and C are analogue - the shoulder buttons aren't and neither are the D-Pad, Start or Select.
The shape or the GameCube controller might look similar to the PS2, but its not. Firstly, the Analogue stick is in a comfortable position - not as an 'add-on' to one of the most inferior pads in the world. Secondly, the shoulder buttons are much more refined and made to actually use. Most PS2 games only use one or two buttons on the shoulders L1 or R1. Even then, the controller is designed so that you only have your index fingers on the shoulder, not your index and middle. This makes it uncomfortable to hold if you do try to use two fingers of each hand on the shoulders. The GameCube controller's prongs are thinner but taller, meaning they're very comfortable to hold. I couldn't give a damn if you don't care if its more comfortable - it is, and no jealous inferior PS2 loving chump can change that FACT.
The fact that the PS2 controller is very bad is a statement to Sony. Obviously they couldn't be bothered to make a better one, either because they are too busy wallowing in all the cash you fanboys throw at them, or they're so stupid they couldn't do a better job. The fact that the original PlayStation controller had to be updated to compete in the 'real' market shows that Sony really didn't care in the first place. What's more, the analogue sticks haven't been replaced to a proper position which is comfortable in extended play. I still use the D-Pad rather than the analogue sticks because they're just more comfortable to use.
Turbonutter, I'm ashamed of you. I know you're a Sony man, and that you despise Nintendo, but you've reached new lows. I have all consoles, I'm not biased towards any particular side - I love Final Fantasy X and the PS2 is still a great console - but now its taking the 'console war' to petty squabbling.
The fact that the GameCube controller is better than the DualShock 2 might be hard to accept, and until you play on a GameCube properly - not at a shop where the controller is moulded onto the display - you can't judge a book by its cover. The fact that the GameCube controller is purple means nothing, yet to you this fact is different.
Thing is, I'm not a Ninty. At the moment, I'm more of a Sony man. And unlike you, I'm not biased. Turbonutter, get your act together. With this post, you're disgracing both Nintendo AND Sony.
...Turbonutter, you've let yourself down. Not only have you got your facts wrong about the GameCube joypad, but you've also got it wrong about the PS2 joypad.
Firstly, the D-Pad is one hell of a lot better than the PS2 d-pad. Its the same as the one on the GameBoy and all the variations, and obviously Nintendo know that you can't alter a classic.
The GC controller isn't meant to have two fully analogue sticks - the C-Stick is there for camera control. And the GameCube analogue stick proper is far more sensitive than the PS2. Ever played Super Monkey Ball? If that doesn't make my point, try using a converter and playing it with a PS2 controller. Its impossible, because despite having the very strange amount of 256 degrees of pressure/motion whatever, its very stiff and makes it annoying to control. Added to that, the top of it hasn't got a decent grip so on a particularly concentrative game, you're sweaty fingers are sliding all over the place. Although not as much, this is also the case with the GC controller, and the only console with a joystick which IS decet is the Xbox.
The four main buttons are much better placed on the GC controller, because they're all close to the main A button, rather than in a crappy square pattern. It means they're easy to reach, easy to press and better designed. They stick out more than on the PS2, but it means you can push them in more.
The shoulder buttons on the GameCube are so much better than on the PS2, its funny. Not only are they proper triggers and the controller is designed so your fingers lie on them (not just when you need to use them), but they're technically 2 buttons in one because when pushed all the way in there is another button which clicks. I admit the Z button isn't very well placed, but it isn't a button where you're meant to have a finger all the time - its there to activate small things like centering the camera and so on.
I can't understand why you deny the GameCube controller having rumble, especially since its much stronger and hence more effective than on the PS2.
Oh, and let me put it this way - I dropper my saxophone, in its case which is very, very heavy, on top of my GameCube controller and it didn't break. Surprisingly, it did f*** up the analogue stick on my PS2 controller which was right next to it. The PS2 pad is stronger? Whatever...
And the PS2 buttons arent' all analogue, only X, Sq, T and C are analogue - the shoulder buttons aren't and neither are the D-Pad, Start or Select.
The shape or the GameCube controller might look similar to the PS2, but its not. Firstly, the Analogue stick is in a comfortable position - not as an 'add-on' to one of the most inferior pads in the world. Secondly, the shoulder buttons are much more refined and made to actually use. Most PS2 games only use one or two buttons on the shoulders L1 or R1. Even then, the controller is designed so that you only have your index fingers on the shoulder, not your index and middle. This makes it uncomfortable to hold if you do try to use two fingers of each hand on the shoulders. The GameCube controller's prongs are thinner but taller, meaning they're very comfortable to hold. I couldn't give a damn if you don't care if its more comfortable - it is, and no jealous inferior PS2 loving chump can change that FACT.
The fact that the PS2 controller is very bad is a statement to Sony. Obviously they couldn't be bothered to make a better one, either because they are too busy wallowing in all the cash you fanboys throw at them, or they're so stupid they couldn't do a better job. The fact that the original PlayStation controller had to be updated to compete in the 'real' market shows that Sony really didn't care in the first place. What's more, the analogue sticks haven't been replaced to a proper position which is comfortable in extended play. I still use the D-Pad rather than the analogue sticks because they're just more comfortable to use.
Turbonutter, I'm ashamed of you. I know you're a Sony man, and that you despise Nintendo, but you've reached new lows. I have all consoles, I'm not biased towards any particular side - I love Final Fantasy X and the PS2 is still a great console - but now its taking the 'console war' to petty squabbling.
The fact that the GameCube controller is better than the DualShock 2 might be hard to accept, and until you play on a GameCube properly - not at a shop where the controller is moulded onto the display - you can't judge a book by its cover. The fact that the GameCube controller is purple means nothing, yet to you this fact is different.
Thing is, I'm not a Ninty. At the moment, I'm more of a Sony man. And unlike you, I'm not biased. Turbonutter, get your act together. With this post, you're disgracing both Nintendo AND Sony.
*yawn* As much as you aren't going to admit it we're pretty much beating you at every turn here, since your now reduced to making 'smart' comments and just writing "PS2 controller is better!" at the end of every post I really don't think theres much point in carrying on with this. The simple fact is, a whopping two people in this thread prefer the PS2 pad, with the remaining 5-6 prefering the GC pad, and you cannot argue against the fact that the majority of people prefer the GC controller, which probably concludes that the PS2 pad is good if you happen to have the perfect size hands, but the GC pad is much more suited to a wide range of sizes. Now take your pad, shove it up your ar*e and b*gger off.
GasMask wrote:
> Lol..
>
> Right. Lol..
>
> PS2 Controller better? Hm, well. In my opinion. N64, GC control, were
> amazing. And nothing could beat them.
>
> I hate the anologue on the PS2, it gets in the way. And my thumbs
> always touch, and my thumbs always slip off the anaolgue. Crap
> basically.
You're using it totally wrongly... even when my fingers are soaked in sweat/water they keep their grip.
> I admit, the GC rumble isn't as good as the PS2, there's less rumble
> in the GC control, but I feel its stronger.. Mm, so, even.
Eh? Still, as Wookiee says, the PS2 is more advanced.
> D-Pad? Well, yeah, the D-Pad is a bit small, but its alright.
>
> GC Controller copied from PS2? Gah.. you must be on drugs or
> something..
Well, they look exactly the same. Funny, that.
> Lol..
>
> Right. Lol..
>
> PS2 Controller better? Hm, well. In my opinion. N64, GC control, were
> amazing. And nothing could beat them.
>
> I hate the anologue on the PS2, it gets in the way. And my thumbs
> always touch, and my thumbs always slip off the anaolgue. Crap
> basically.
You're using it totally wrongly... even when my fingers are soaked in sweat/water they keep their grip.
> I admit, the GC rumble isn't as good as the PS2, there's less rumble
> in the GC control, but I feel its stronger.. Mm, so, even.
Eh? Still, as Wookiee says, the PS2 is more advanced.
> D-Pad? Well, yeah, the D-Pad is a bit small, but its alright.
>
> GC Controller copied from PS2? Gah.. you must be on drugs or
> something..
Well, they look exactly the same. Funny, that.
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