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So the sun is out today, and it's a glorious day.
Except for one simple thing, and I'll try to explain.
There have been a number of posts here recently concerning foreign and domestic issues and immigrants/refugees etc, and I have had several discussions with folks here about what it means to be "British" and "Proud of England".
My stand is that I have no particular allegiance to this country, and as far as I'm concerned this is just another piece of rock floating on the sea that happens to have been labelled “England”.
We’ve seen a rise in the right-wing politics in France over the past couple of days, as well as a surge of right-wing votes/candidates in Germany, Italy and previously calm Switzerland.
There is the argument that “being proud of your country doesn’t mean your racist”. I agree with that idea, to an extent.
The way I feel, the moment you start saying “Well you live here then you observe our customs and ways” starts to sound a little strange to me. You have nothing to do with the fact that you are English, your parents do. Aside from the language you speak and the geographical location, you are exactly the same as Mehmet/Abdul/Nu-Gyen etc etc, and to insist they follow your traditions merely because they live in the same borders as you strikes me as odd.
But that’s just me.
To be “proud of your country” would suggest that you’ve done something for it. Fought in a war maybe, or just done something other than…well…nothing at all.
Being born here doesn’t make you any more worthy of being “proud to British” in my eyes.
And the fuss that gets caused because some council in Birmingham wants to rename Christmas etc etc is so utterly pointless, it doesn’t affect you at all.
So, to Wookie, YH and everyone else that has been banging on about being proud of being British etc (not specifically you two, but the only two names that spring to mind), I have 1 question:
Why has nobody mentioned the fact it’s St George’s Day today?
I would have thought that staunch UK Supporters might have made a little post about it somewhere.
Except for one simple thing, and I'll try to explain.
There have been a number of posts here recently concerning foreign and domestic issues and immigrants/refugees etc, and I have had several discussions with folks here about what it means to be "British" and "Proud of England".
My stand is that I have no particular allegiance to this country, and as far as I'm concerned this is just another piece of rock floating on the sea that happens to have been labelled “England”.
We’ve seen a rise in the right-wing politics in France over the past couple of days, as well as a surge of right-wing votes/candidates in Germany, Italy and previously calm Switzerland.
There is the argument that “being proud of your country doesn’t mean your racist”. I agree with that idea, to an extent.
The way I feel, the moment you start saying “Well you live here then you observe our customs and ways” starts to sound a little strange to me. You have nothing to do with the fact that you are English, your parents do. Aside from the language you speak and the geographical location, you are exactly the same as Mehmet/Abdul/Nu-Gyen etc etc, and to insist they follow your traditions merely because they live in the same borders as you strikes me as odd.
But that’s just me.
To be “proud of your country” would suggest that you’ve done something for it. Fought in a war maybe, or just done something other than…well…nothing at all.
Being born here doesn’t make you any more worthy of being “proud to British” in my eyes.
And the fuss that gets caused because some council in Birmingham wants to rename Christmas etc etc is so utterly pointless, it doesn’t affect you at all.
So, to Wookie, YH and everyone else that has been banging on about being proud of being British etc (not specifically you two, but the only two names that spring to mind), I have 1 question:
Why has nobody mentioned the fact it’s St George’s Day today?
I would have thought that staunch UK Supporters might have made a little post about it somewhere.
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Humm...not sure what to think about Patriotism, to be honest. I don't think I'd fight in a war for Britain, but I guess I'd need to be put in the situation to really know.
I do support England in sports though. I mean, yeah, we are just a piece of land labelled "England", but it's the piece of land I've always lived in. It's my home. Even the simplest of things, can be the most important. Or something like that anyway. I'm sort of contradicting myself, but it's hard to explain...
Sorry if I've gone a bit off-topic, as I don't really know what you and Wookiee are going on about. {:)
I do support England in sports though. I mean, yeah, we are just a piece of land labelled "England", but it's the piece of land I've always lived in. It's my home. Even the simplest of things, can be the most important. Or something like that anyway. I'm sort of contradicting myself, but it's hard to explain...
Sorry if I've gone a bit off-topic, as I don't really know what you and Wookiee are going on about. {:)
WòókieeMøn§†€® wrote:
> There is no comparison between the swivel-eyed madmen who plot in pubs
> and grubby bedsits above kebab shops and the well-oiled,
> well-established political machine run by Le Pen.
--
Crass, boorish manipulative journalism at it's worst.
This is exactly what Littlejohn does, and to his credit, does well.
When the Brasseye furore exploded, Littlejohn was first to stand and "make a stand against this so called 'comedy' at the expense of your children and the idea of making light of child-abuse".
Yet 2 days later, he was making fun at "those hysterical media rats that fell for Morris' satire all too easily"
And any journalist that uses a word like "Gaurdanista" twice is showing he is trying to impress with his big words.
Come on, like anyone that reads The Sun knows what that word is.
Littlejohn is a pimp to the ill-informed and ill-educated.
That is NOT a dig at you Wookiee, I hold you higher than that, I'm saying the day anybody takes that man seriously is the day The Sun counts as anything other than fish-wrap.
> There is no comparison between the swivel-eyed madmen who plot in pubs
> and grubby bedsits above kebab shops and the well-oiled,
> well-established political machine run by Le Pen.
--
Crass, boorish manipulative journalism at it's worst.
This is exactly what Littlejohn does, and to his credit, does well.
When the Brasseye furore exploded, Littlejohn was first to stand and "make a stand against this so called 'comedy' at the expense of your children and the idea of making light of child-abuse".
Yet 2 days later, he was making fun at "those hysterical media rats that fell for Morris' satire all too easily"
And any journalist that uses a word like "Gaurdanista" twice is showing he is trying to impress with his big words.
Come on, like anyone that reads The Sun knows what that word is.
Littlejohn is a pimp to the ill-informed and ill-educated.
That is NOT a dig at you Wookiee, I hold you higher than that, I'm saying the day anybody takes that man seriously is the day The Sun counts as anything other than fish-wrap.
But nobody has brought St George's Day up here until I did.
Which, no offence intended Wookiee, means that nobody here must feel as strongly about being British as they claim to.
There were threads about St Patrick's Day and how you'd celebrate it.
Yet not one person, not one, so much as mentioned St George's Day here apart from me.
Which is ironic considering I'm the least patriotic of the people I know.
All I'm saying, not directed at any one person, is you either talk about St George's Day as passionately as you do refugees and immigration - or you run the risk of people dismissing your opinions about "being British" as, at best, amateur and fed by redtop tabloid musings from the likes of Littlejohn.
Who, I'm sorry, is a reactionary tool.
Thread below is about the French elections.
There's a thread about a bomb in Indonesia somewhere here.
Yet nobody at all mentioned St George's Day.
But I can scan back and read ignorant crap about "They should speak our language" and "Changing the name of Xmas to suit minorities".
I'm not pointing at anyone specifically, I just find it ironic in the extreme that, despite many heated debates about "I feel proud of my country", none of you rememebered or thought to post about St George's Day.
Which tells me all I need to know about how strongly convictions are held concerning the idea of being British.
Which, no offence intended Wookiee, means that nobody here must feel as strongly about being British as they claim to.
There were threads about St Patrick's Day and how you'd celebrate it.
Yet not one person, not one, so much as mentioned St George's Day here apart from me.
Which is ironic considering I'm the least patriotic of the people I know.
All I'm saying, not directed at any one person, is you either talk about St George's Day as passionately as you do refugees and immigration - or you run the risk of people dismissing your opinions about "being British" as, at best, amateur and fed by redtop tabloid musings from the likes of Littlejohn.
Who, I'm sorry, is a reactionary tool.
Thread below is about the French elections.
There's a thread about a bomb in Indonesia somewhere here.
Yet nobody at all mentioned St George's Day.
But I can scan back and read ignorant crap about "They should speak our language" and "Changing the name of Xmas to suit minorities".
I'm not pointing at anyone specifically, I just find it ironic in the extreme that, despite many heated debates about "I feel proud of my country", none of you rememebered or thought to post about St George's Day.
Which tells me all I need to know about how strongly convictions are held concerning the idea of being British.
Goatboy wrote:
> Why has nobody mentioned the fact it’s St George’s Day today?
I have, to friends and colleagues who feel the same as I do.
My flag is in my window, and I've been discussing at work the reasons why today isn't a national holiday, as it is elsewhere with similar days.
It's all part of that English way. You can be proud about it without always feeling the need to shout about it and ram it down other people's throats. Besides, if we did, we'd no doubt be branded racists somewhere along the line.
Though people will no doubt pour scorn on me, the author and the paper he writes for (I've done it enough myself), I'd like to quote the article by Richard Littlejohn in today's Sun "newspaper". Not because he's someone I look up to, respect, or otherwise pay particular attention to, but simply because this particular article sums up exactly how I feel about the way English people are mistreated in their own country, in the name of "equality".
And I'll leave it at that.
-----
It will be interesting to see how our own political elite reacts to the horrifying share of the vote captured by the fascist Jean-Marie Le Pen in the French presidential election.
Home Secretary David Blunkett has already expressed concern about rising support for the BNP in the run-up to the local council elections.
But while the far-Right may capture the odd seat there is no imminent prospect of the skinhead tendency getting a fifth of the popular vote in this country.
There is no comparison between the swivel-eyed madmen who plot in pubs and grubby bedsits above kebab shops and the well-oiled, well-established political machine run by Le Pen.
Nor, thankfully, is there any tradition of the British people voting for extremists in large numbers.
The spectacular backing for Le Pen only serves to illustrate what I wrote on Friday — that France is the most anti-Semitic nation outside the Arab world.
Le Pen preaches hatred against blacks and Jews. He once said the Holocaust was a mere "detail" in history.
Millions of his fellow countrymen and women agree with him.
It also needs to be restated, as I have written on a number of occasions, that Britain is not a racist country.
Of course, we have our share of racists. But overwhelmingly, Britain is the least racist nation in Europe and possibly in the world.
That’s not the impression you’d get if you believed what you were told by the BBC and the Guardianista political class.
We are constantly being harangued about racism.
Politicians and much of the media are obsessed with racism to the point of insanity.
The race industry is the fastest growing business in Britain. We are all expected to worship at the twin altars of anti-racism and gay rights, our new state religions.
Far from healing divisions, politicians and the race commissars have a vested interest in manufacturing and prolonging them.
Under Labour the anti-British and, especially, anti-English forces have cemented their grip on government at every level.
Children in schools are taught to be ashamed of their nationhood. Councils tear down Union flags for fear of "offending" minorities.
A big part of my pride in being British is our traditional tolerance and self-deprecation.
I like the idea that we’re not showy and wear our patriotism lightly.
I’m pretty relaxed about the idea of celebrating St George’s Day. We don’t need a parade or a sea of green beer to remind us who we are.
But if people want to have a knees-up today, that’s fine by me.
Sadly, it’s not fine by the authorities. Ken Livingstone refused to mark St George’s Day in London despite lavishing the thick end of £100,000 of taxpayers’ money on a Paddy’s Day party.
And here’s another small but telling insight into the self-loathing Guardianista mindset.
Magistrates in Colchester have refused landlord Ray Martin an extension at his Wig and Pen pub to celebrate St George’s Day.
They had no such compunction in granting an Irish pub over the road a 1am special licence on St Patrick’s Day, despite it falling on a Sunday.
This might seem relatively unimportant in the scheme of things. But there is a big picture here.
If there is any parallel between the rise of the far-Right in France and this country it is the way in which the ruling class ignore the concerns of the people about issues such as crime and illegal immigration and treat those who disagree with them as beneath contempt.
Anyone who draws attention to the problems created by the flood of bogus asylum seekers is smeared hysterically as a racist.
Those who want proper policing and sentencing for criminals are denounced as punishment freaks.
There’s a fuss in the papers for a couple of days and then the circus moves on. Nothing ever happens.
But if you keep telling people they are all racists and fascists eventually they will believe it.
And they will be driven into the arms of real fascists.
That is the important lesson of the French election.
If you give a dog a bad name often enough and ignore his barking then you shouldn’t be surprised when he bites you.
> Why has nobody mentioned the fact it’s St George’s Day today?
I have, to friends and colleagues who feel the same as I do.
My flag is in my window, and I've been discussing at work the reasons why today isn't a national holiday, as it is elsewhere with similar days.
It's all part of that English way. You can be proud about it without always feeling the need to shout about it and ram it down other people's throats. Besides, if we did, we'd no doubt be branded racists somewhere along the line.
Though people will no doubt pour scorn on me, the author and the paper he writes for (I've done it enough myself), I'd like to quote the article by Richard Littlejohn in today's Sun "newspaper". Not because he's someone I look up to, respect, or otherwise pay particular attention to, but simply because this particular article sums up exactly how I feel about the way English people are mistreated in their own country, in the name of "equality".
And I'll leave it at that.
-----
It will be interesting to see how our own political elite reacts to the horrifying share of the vote captured by the fascist Jean-Marie Le Pen in the French presidential election.
Home Secretary David Blunkett has already expressed concern about rising support for the BNP in the run-up to the local council elections.
But while the far-Right may capture the odd seat there is no imminent prospect of the skinhead tendency getting a fifth of the popular vote in this country.
There is no comparison between the swivel-eyed madmen who plot in pubs and grubby bedsits above kebab shops and the well-oiled, well-established political machine run by Le Pen.
Nor, thankfully, is there any tradition of the British people voting for extremists in large numbers.
The spectacular backing for Le Pen only serves to illustrate what I wrote on Friday — that France is the most anti-Semitic nation outside the Arab world.
Le Pen preaches hatred against blacks and Jews. He once said the Holocaust was a mere "detail" in history.
Millions of his fellow countrymen and women agree with him.
It also needs to be restated, as I have written on a number of occasions, that Britain is not a racist country.
Of course, we have our share of racists. But overwhelmingly, Britain is the least racist nation in Europe and possibly in the world.
That’s not the impression you’d get if you believed what you were told by the BBC and the Guardianista political class.
We are constantly being harangued about racism.
Politicians and much of the media are obsessed with racism to the point of insanity.
The race industry is the fastest growing business in Britain. We are all expected to worship at the twin altars of anti-racism and gay rights, our new state religions.
Far from healing divisions, politicians and the race commissars have a vested interest in manufacturing and prolonging them.
Under Labour the anti-British and, especially, anti-English forces have cemented their grip on government at every level.
Children in schools are taught to be ashamed of their nationhood. Councils tear down Union flags for fear of "offending" minorities.
A big part of my pride in being British is our traditional tolerance and self-deprecation.
I like the idea that we’re not showy and wear our patriotism lightly.
I’m pretty relaxed about the idea of celebrating St George’s Day. We don’t need a parade or a sea of green beer to remind us who we are.
But if people want to have a knees-up today, that’s fine by me.
Sadly, it’s not fine by the authorities. Ken Livingstone refused to mark St George’s Day in London despite lavishing the thick end of £100,000 of taxpayers’ money on a Paddy’s Day party.
And here’s another small but telling insight into the self-loathing Guardianista mindset.
Magistrates in Colchester have refused landlord Ray Martin an extension at his Wig and Pen pub to celebrate St George’s Day.
They had no such compunction in granting an Irish pub over the road a 1am special licence on St Patrick’s Day, despite it falling on a Sunday.
This might seem relatively unimportant in the scheme of things. But there is a big picture here.
If there is any parallel between the rise of the far-Right in France and this country it is the way in which the ruling class ignore the concerns of the people about issues such as crime and illegal immigration and treat those who disagree with them as beneath contempt.
Anyone who draws attention to the problems created by the flood of bogus asylum seekers is smeared hysterically as a racist.
Those who want proper policing and sentencing for criminals are denounced as punishment freaks.
There’s a fuss in the papers for a couple of days and then the circus moves on. Nothing ever happens.
But if you keep telling people they are all racists and fascists eventually they will believe it.
And they will be driven into the arms of real fascists.
That is the important lesson of the French election.
If you give a dog a bad name often enough and ignore his barking then you shouldn’t be surprised when he bites you.
I love being Welsh, and I'm proud to have been born in Pembrokeshire.
Lemme tell you why.
1) We've got a flag with a dragon on it.
2) There are a load of excellent beaches.
3) We have our own language, and it's by far the funniest in the world.
4) The most news we ever get would be the 'crisis' over the blue coloured buildings in Haverfordwest. Really. All councillers are doing at the moment are shouting at eachother because all the buildings aren't the same colour, like they want them to be. The fantastic thing is, nobody actually bothers to listen to them. They'll tell everyone to paint their houses the same colour, but no-one will bother.
5) You think the Millienium Dome was bad? We had the Millenium Fountain. Clear your minds of all thoughts. Picture a pretty big lake. Picture a bridge over it. Picture a hose sticking out of the ground, on the left of the bridge, in a place where you can't even see it if you're too far to the right. THAT's the Millenium Fountain. It's since been turned off. :0)
There are a few more... but I love living in Wales... well, Pembrokeshire. The worst thing that has happened recently was a murder, a poor woman, 26 or so, was stabbed to death and then her ex tried to kill himself... but I mean, that's the only thing that's happened around here in years.
It's fantastic really... but I'm only patriotic because I feel sorry for the place half the time. Sure, crime is low, beaches are great, fantastic. But we're so behind everyone else... it's hilarious. I can laugh at Wales for what it is... what I don't understand though, is English [collective] people laughing at Wales for what it isn't. Because we're all farmers that divulge in beastiality, and there aren't any in England at all. It's funny we're not advancing as a species...
Lemme tell you why.
1) We've got a flag with a dragon on it.
2) There are a load of excellent beaches.
3) We have our own language, and it's by far the funniest in the world.
4) The most news we ever get would be the 'crisis' over the blue coloured buildings in Haverfordwest. Really. All councillers are doing at the moment are shouting at eachother because all the buildings aren't the same colour, like they want them to be. The fantastic thing is, nobody actually bothers to listen to them. They'll tell everyone to paint their houses the same colour, but no-one will bother.
5) You think the Millienium Dome was bad? We had the Millenium Fountain. Clear your minds of all thoughts. Picture a pretty big lake. Picture a bridge over it. Picture a hose sticking out of the ground, on the left of the bridge, in a place where you can't even see it if you're too far to the right. THAT's the Millenium Fountain. It's since been turned off. :0)
There are a few more... but I love living in Wales... well, Pembrokeshire. The worst thing that has happened recently was a murder, a poor woman, 26 or so, was stabbed to death and then her ex tried to kill himself... but I mean, that's the only thing that's happened around here in years.
It's fantastic really... but I'm only patriotic because I feel sorry for the place half the time. Sure, crime is low, beaches are great, fantastic. But we're so behind everyone else... it's hilarious. I can laugh at Wales for what it is... what I don't understand though, is English [collective] people laughing at Wales for what it isn't. Because we're all farmers that divulge in beastiality, and there aren't any in England at all. It's funny we're not advancing as a species...
I agree with everything you said...
So I can't think of anything to add
So I can't think of anything to add
I am glad to find someone else that thinks along similar lines.
I understand that it is human nature to create borders between ourselves and others, both for protection and to increase personal ties behind those borders. However, the moment people begin to use a country as an excuse to mock others, it stops being anything to be 'proud' of.
Patriotism is a product created by nationalism.
Nationalism is a product created by racists.
Go figure.
I understand that it is human nature to create borders between ourselves and others, both for protection and to increase personal ties behind those borders. However, the moment people begin to use a country as an excuse to mock others, it stops being anything to be 'proud' of.
Patriotism is a product created by nationalism.
Nationalism is a product created by racists.
Go figure.
So the sun is out today, and it's a glorious day.
Except for one simple thing, and I'll try to explain.
There have been a number of posts here recently concerning foreign and domestic issues and immigrants/refugees etc, and I have had several discussions with folks here about what it means to be "British" and "Proud of England".
My stand is that I have no particular allegiance to this country, and as far as I'm concerned this is just another piece of rock floating on the sea that happens to have been labelled “England”.
We’ve seen a rise in the right-wing politics in France over the past couple of days, as well as a surge of right-wing votes/candidates in Germany, Italy and previously calm Switzerland.
There is the argument that “being proud of your country doesn’t mean your racist”. I agree with that idea, to an extent.
The way I feel, the moment you start saying “Well you live here then you observe our customs and ways” starts to sound a little strange to me. You have nothing to do with the fact that you are English, your parents do. Aside from the language you speak and the geographical location, you are exactly the same as Mehmet/Abdul/Nu-Gyen etc etc, and to insist they follow your traditions merely because they live in the same borders as you strikes me as odd.
But that’s just me.
To be “proud of your country” would suggest that you’ve done something for it. Fought in a war maybe, or just done something other than…well…nothing at all.
Being born here doesn’t make you any more worthy of being “proud to British” in my eyes.
And the fuss that gets caused because some council in Birmingham wants to rename Christmas etc etc is so utterly pointless, it doesn’t affect you at all.
So, to Wookie, YH and everyone else that has been banging on about being proud of being British etc (not specifically you two, but the only two names that spring to mind), I have 1 question:
Why has nobody mentioned the fact it’s St George’s Day today?
I would have thought that staunch UK Supporters might have made a little post about it somewhere.
Except for one simple thing, and I'll try to explain.
There have been a number of posts here recently concerning foreign and domestic issues and immigrants/refugees etc, and I have had several discussions with folks here about what it means to be "British" and "Proud of England".
My stand is that I have no particular allegiance to this country, and as far as I'm concerned this is just another piece of rock floating on the sea that happens to have been labelled “England”.
We’ve seen a rise in the right-wing politics in France over the past couple of days, as well as a surge of right-wing votes/candidates in Germany, Italy and previously calm Switzerland.
There is the argument that “being proud of your country doesn’t mean your racist”. I agree with that idea, to an extent.
The way I feel, the moment you start saying “Well you live here then you observe our customs and ways” starts to sound a little strange to me. You have nothing to do with the fact that you are English, your parents do. Aside from the language you speak and the geographical location, you are exactly the same as Mehmet/Abdul/Nu-Gyen etc etc, and to insist they follow your traditions merely because they live in the same borders as you strikes me as odd.
But that’s just me.
To be “proud of your country” would suggest that you’ve done something for it. Fought in a war maybe, or just done something other than…well…nothing at all.
Being born here doesn’t make you any more worthy of being “proud to British” in my eyes.
And the fuss that gets caused because some council in Birmingham wants to rename Christmas etc etc is so utterly pointless, it doesn’t affect you at all.
So, to Wookie, YH and everyone else that has been banging on about being proud of being British etc (not specifically you two, but the only two names that spring to mind), I have 1 question:
Why has nobody mentioned the fact it’s St George’s Day today?
I would have thought that staunch UK Supporters might have made a little post about it somewhere.
Page: