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So the sun is out today, and it's a glorious day.
Except for one simple thing, and I'll try to explain.
There have been a number of posts here recently concerning foreign and domestic issues and immigrants/refugees etc, and I have had several discussions with folks here about what it means to be "British" and "Proud of England".
My stand is that I have no particular allegiance to this country, and as far as I'm concerned this is just another piece of rock floating on the sea that happens to have been labelled “England”.
We’ve seen a rise in the right-wing politics in France over the past couple of days, as well as a surge of right-wing votes/candidates in Germany, Italy and previously calm Switzerland.
There is the argument that “being proud of your country doesn’t mean your racist”. I agree with that idea, to an extent.
The way I feel, the moment you start saying “Well you live here then you observe our customs and ways” starts to sound a little strange to me. You have nothing to do with the fact that you are English, your parents do. Aside from the language you speak and the geographical location, you are exactly the same as Mehmet/Abdul/Nu-Gyen etc etc, and to insist they follow your traditions merely because they live in the same borders as you strikes me as odd.
But that’s just me.
To be “proud of your country” would suggest that you’ve done something for it. Fought in a war maybe, or just done something other than…well…nothing at all.
Being born here doesn’t make you any more worthy of being “proud to British” in my eyes.
And the fuss that gets caused because some council in Birmingham wants to rename Christmas etc etc is so utterly pointless, it doesn’t affect you at all.
So, to Wookie, YH and everyone else that has been banging on about being proud of being British etc (not specifically you two, but the only two names that spring to mind), I have 1 question:
Why has nobody mentioned the fact it’s St George’s Day today?
I would have thought that staunch UK Supporters might have made a little post about it somewhere.
Except for one simple thing, and I'll try to explain.
There have been a number of posts here recently concerning foreign and domestic issues and immigrants/refugees etc, and I have had several discussions with folks here about what it means to be "British" and "Proud of England".
My stand is that I have no particular allegiance to this country, and as far as I'm concerned this is just another piece of rock floating on the sea that happens to have been labelled “England”.
We’ve seen a rise in the right-wing politics in France over the past couple of days, as well as a surge of right-wing votes/candidates in Germany, Italy and previously calm Switzerland.
There is the argument that “being proud of your country doesn’t mean your racist”. I agree with that idea, to an extent.
The way I feel, the moment you start saying “Well you live here then you observe our customs and ways” starts to sound a little strange to me. You have nothing to do with the fact that you are English, your parents do. Aside from the language you speak and the geographical location, you are exactly the same as Mehmet/Abdul/Nu-Gyen etc etc, and to insist they follow your traditions merely because they live in the same borders as you strikes me as odd.
But that’s just me.
To be “proud of your country” would suggest that you’ve done something for it. Fought in a war maybe, or just done something other than…well…nothing at all.
Being born here doesn’t make you any more worthy of being “proud to British” in my eyes.
And the fuss that gets caused because some council in Birmingham wants to rename Christmas etc etc is so utterly pointless, it doesn’t affect you at all.
So, to Wookie, YH and everyone else that has been banging on about being proud of being British etc (not specifically you two, but the only two names that spring to mind), I have 1 question:
Why has nobody mentioned the fact it’s St George’s Day today?
I would have thought that staunch UK Supporters might have made a little post about it somewhere.
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Your Honour wrote:
> Goatboy wrote:
> Ok, a simple question for all those talking about "foreingers
> coming over here and trying to change our culture to their
> ways"
>
> Explain the British Colonisation of India.
> And our colonisation of Africa.
>
>
>
> This is going to sound like I'm making it up as I've had first hand
> experience of all of this, including the references in my last post.
>
> My mums first husband worked for Essex County Concil, and he was sent
> out to work in South Africa for three years, with my mum. It was in
> the 70's, they came back just before decimilisation occured over here
> (whatever year that was).
>
> There job over there was to train the black South Africans how to run
> government and councils etc.
>
> While they were over the the British government poured money into
> infrastructure and services for them.
>
> Yes, we colonised them etc, but at least we tried to help them.
>
> That's not to say that foreigners who come over here do nothing, but
> we did a lot more for them than most people realise.
Well said sir, that country where all the white farmers are being killed was once just a dust ball untill we poured money and resources into it. Then they chuck it back in our faces, its because that bloke believes in black power etc.
> Goatboy wrote:
> Ok, a simple question for all those talking about "foreingers
> coming over here and trying to change our culture to their
> ways"
>
> Explain the British Colonisation of India.
> And our colonisation of Africa.
>
>
>
> This is going to sound like I'm making it up as I've had first hand
> experience of all of this, including the references in my last post.
>
> My mums first husband worked for Essex County Concil, and he was sent
> out to work in South Africa for three years, with my mum. It was in
> the 70's, they came back just before decimilisation occured over here
> (whatever year that was).
>
> There job over there was to train the black South Africans how to run
> government and councils etc.
>
> While they were over the the British government poured money into
> infrastructure and services for them.
>
> Yes, we colonised them etc, but at least we tried to help them.
>
> That's not to say that foreigners who come over here do nothing, but
> we did a lot more for them than most people realise.
Well said sir, that country where all the white farmers are being killed was once just a dust ball untill we poured money and resources into it. Then they chuck it back in our faces, its because that bloke believes in black power etc.
PC comes from idiot do-gooders, more interested in furthering their own ideas and beliefs rather than just getting on with things that matter.
I raised several points below about the infrastructure of this country and the apathy we dwell in being more to do with the state of this country than immigrants.
And please, do not even get me started on a history of the UK involvement with South Africa.
We tried to help them directly after colonisation, slavery, beatings and murder hand in hand with The Dutch for over 100 years.
Burn them and force them to slave for us, then teach them how to run things.
Apart from Apartheid, which only recently ended in practice.
We disagree.
And I'm in a foul, foul mood.
I raised several points below about the infrastructure of this country and the apathy we dwell in being more to do with the state of this country than immigrants.
And please, do not even get me started on a history of the UK involvement with South Africa.
We tried to help them directly after colonisation, slavery, beatings and murder hand in hand with The Dutch for over 100 years.
Burn them and force them to slave for us, then teach them how to run things.
Apart from Apartheid, which only recently ended in practice.
We disagree.
And I'm in a foul, foul mood.
One question Goaty:
Where did all this PC stuff come from?
I don't mean in this thread. I mean what made it such a part of our life?
Do you think that one solitarty bloke in the coffess shop suddenly thought it up all by himself?
And I'll leave it at that as it's obvious we've got different views, and that's cool.
It seems like we'll be here all day saying the same stuff over and over.
Where did all this PC stuff come from?
I don't mean in this thread. I mean what made it such a part of our life?
Do you think that one solitarty bloke in the coffess shop suddenly thought it up all by himself?
And I'll leave it at that as it's obvious we've got different views, and that's cool.
It seems like we'll be here all day saying the same stuff over and over.
Goatboy wrote:
> Ok, a simple question for all those talking about "foreingers
> coming over here and trying to change our culture to their
> ways"
>
> Explain the British Colonisation of India.
> And our colonisation of Africa.
This is going to sound like I'm making it up as I've had first hand experience of all of this, including the references in my last post.
My mums first husband worked for Essex County Concil, and he was sent out to work in South Africa for three years, with my mum. It was in the 70's, they came back just before decimilisation occured over here (whatever year that was).
There job over there was to train the black South Africans how to run government and councils etc.
While they were over the the British government poured money into infrastructure and services for them.
Yes, we colonised them etc, but at least we tried to help them.
That's not to say that foreigners who come over here do nothing, but we did a lot more for them than most people realise.
> Ok, a simple question for all those talking about "foreingers
> coming over here and trying to change our culture to their
> ways"
>
> Explain the British Colonisation of India.
> And our colonisation of Africa.
This is going to sound like I'm making it up as I've had first hand experience of all of this, including the references in my last post.
My mums first husband worked for Essex County Concil, and he was sent out to work in South Africa for three years, with my mum. It was in the 70's, they came back just before decimilisation occured over here (whatever year that was).
There job over there was to train the black South Africans how to run government and councils etc.
While they were over the the British government poured money into infrastructure and services for them.
Yes, we colonised them etc, but at least we tried to help them.
That's not to say that foreigners who come over here do nothing, but we did a lot more for them than most people realise.
Your Honour wrote:
> In a coffee shop in Colchester about three years ago.
>
> I was with my dad looking for a birthday present for mum and we
> stopped for a drink. I don't like coffee so I had a hot chocolate. My
> dad asked for a black coffee, exactly the same as he's been asking for
> years.
---
So why didn't you complain? Why didn't you write to the coffee shop owner/newspaper etc and complain? Contact your MP and protest?
Just going somewhere else doesn't count, it's not standing for your beliefs.
To be honest, as much as I go for that whole "I may not agree.." thing, right now I'm fed up with what I percieve to be ignorant, right-wing diatribes from people all too willing to point and scream at foreigners instead of accepting responsibilities for themselves.
Blame who the #### you like, care because 1 idiot told you off about coffee.
You should have got in his face and asked him to explain.
Not just meekly walked off and slow-burned over it.
That's the prejudice of one shop, please don't start down that "We're being taken over by PC" road, please mate.
> In a coffee shop in Colchester about three years ago.
>
> I was with my dad looking for a birthday present for mum and we
> stopped for a drink. I don't like coffee so I had a hot chocolate. My
> dad asked for a black coffee, exactly the same as he's been asking for
> years.
---
So why didn't you complain? Why didn't you write to the coffee shop owner/newspaper etc and complain? Contact your MP and protest?
Just going somewhere else doesn't count, it's not standing for your beliefs.
To be honest, as much as I go for that whole "I may not agree.." thing, right now I'm fed up with what I percieve to be ignorant, right-wing diatribes from people all too willing to point and scream at foreigners instead of accepting responsibilities for themselves.
Blame who the #### you like, care because 1 idiot told you off about coffee.
You should have got in his face and asked him to explain.
Not just meekly walked off and slow-burned over it.
That's the prejudice of one shop, please don't start down that "We're being taken over by PC" road, please mate.
Ok, a simple question for all those talking about "foreingers coming over here and trying to change our culture to their ways"
Explain the British Colonisation of India.
And our colonisation of Africa.
If that isn't one of the worst examples of going over to somewhere and forcing people, through law and violence, to conform to a foreign ideal of "living" then what is?
Ghandi was arrested and imprisoned for refusing to carry British ID, despite being an Indian Citizen.
We, The British, are one of the worst offenders for imposing our beliefs on other countries.
Which is worse, a local district council saying "What about calling Xmas something else?", or forcing entire nations into servile conformity?
Explain the British Colonisation of India.
And our colonisation of Africa.
If that isn't one of the worst examples of going over to somewhere and forcing people, through law and violence, to conform to a foreign ideal of "living" then what is?
Ghandi was arrested and imprisoned for refusing to carry British ID, despite being an Indian Citizen.
We, The British, are one of the worst offenders for imposing our beliefs on other countries.
Which is worse, a local district council saying "What about calling Xmas something else?", or forcing entire nations into servile conformity?
Goatboy wrote:
> YH mate, that is utter utter balls.
> Where have you ever asked for black coffee and gotten any kind of
> reply whatsoever to do with race?
In a coffee shop in Colchester about three years ago.
I was with my dad looking for a birthday present for mum and we stopped for a drink. I don't like coffee so I had a hot chocolate. My dad asked for a black coffee, exactly the same as he's been asking for years.
The bloke behind the bar thing said, and I remember exactly because I was so shocked:
"We don't serve black coffee sir. It's coffee with or without milk."
And this was a white bloke who was, at a guess, mid-thirties.
Needless to say we left and went somewhere else.
> Again, when were you told you had to change the name of christmas?
> When? I've never been told that ever.
Birmingham, about two years ago. My brothers fiancee comes from there and it happened to her. She had a HAPPY CHRISTMAS decoration thing in her window and she was asked to take it down.
> And as for "c***k" being filtered, it's a racial slur.
> It may be another meaning, but the common meaning these days is in
> reference to Asians and I have no problem with that being filtered.
> It's the same as someone saying "Kike".
> Both are extremely offensive words, it may mean something else but
> when the primary meaning is the racial slur then I think it's a good
> thing it's filtered.
But since when has the primary meaning been a racial slur?
And is it any more of a racial slur than us being Limey's or whatever it is? Or the Americans being Yanks?
It takes someone, somewhere, to turn a word into a slur. Before that, they are just words with a quite normal meaning, not being offensive to anyone.
> YH mate, that is utter utter balls.
> Where have you ever asked for black coffee and gotten any kind of
> reply whatsoever to do with race?
In a coffee shop in Colchester about three years ago.
I was with my dad looking for a birthday present for mum and we stopped for a drink. I don't like coffee so I had a hot chocolate. My dad asked for a black coffee, exactly the same as he's been asking for years.
The bloke behind the bar thing said, and I remember exactly because I was so shocked:
"We don't serve black coffee sir. It's coffee with or without milk."
And this was a white bloke who was, at a guess, mid-thirties.
Needless to say we left and went somewhere else.
> Again, when were you told you had to change the name of christmas?
> When? I've never been told that ever.
Birmingham, about two years ago. My brothers fiancee comes from there and it happened to her. She had a HAPPY CHRISTMAS decoration thing in her window and she was asked to take it down.
> And as for "c***k" being filtered, it's a racial slur.
> It may be another meaning, but the common meaning these days is in
> reference to Asians and I have no problem with that being filtered.
> It's the same as someone saying "Kike".
> Both are extremely offensive words, it may mean something else but
> when the primary meaning is the racial slur then I think it's a good
> thing it's filtered.
But since when has the primary meaning been a racial slur?
And is it any more of a racial slur than us being Limey's or whatever it is? Or the Americans being Yanks?
It takes someone, somewhere, to turn a word into a slur. Before that, they are just words with a quite normal meaning, not being offensive to anyone.
Goatboy wrote:
> Meka Dragon wrote:
>
> I don't want to go around
> getting rid of all that's not British.
>
>
> And that's the knee-jerk reaction from so many people (not you).
> Who exactly is "trying to get rid of all that's British"?
Actually, I said 'not British' :-)
Anyways, on that subject, who is trying to get rid of what IS British?
Good question. There was this story about, was it Birmingham City Council, anyway, they wanted to refer to Xmas as Winterval.
Do I care? No, I'll still celebrate it as I like, and get time off work.
I think oue education on our past is terrible. I never once studied the history of Britian in school, where I feel learning qbout Victorian times, Industrialisation, our political system and how it has evolved would possibly be more beneficial than some of the other things I 'learnt' in history.
No one has EVER asked me not to say something because it's racist, or change the way I do things.
There's a lot I don't like about this country. I don't like our Government, I didn't vote for them, so I'm in my rigts to swear when they keep doing things that annoy me. I don't like our media, and the way they feel that Sven Goran Erikson's sex life is the subject of front page news. But there's a lot that I do like. Maybe not 'traditional' British things, so does that make me patriotic, or not?
I don't know. :-)
> Meka Dragon wrote:
>
> I don't want to go around
> getting rid of all that's not British.
>
>
> And that's the knee-jerk reaction from so many people (not you).
> Who exactly is "trying to get rid of all that's British"?
Actually, I said 'not British' :-)
Anyways, on that subject, who is trying to get rid of what IS British?
Good question. There was this story about, was it Birmingham City Council, anyway, they wanted to refer to Xmas as Winterval.
Do I care? No, I'll still celebrate it as I like, and get time off work.
I think oue education on our past is terrible. I never once studied the history of Britian in school, where I feel learning qbout Victorian times, Industrialisation, our political system and how it has evolved would possibly be more beneficial than some of the other things I 'learnt' in history.
No one has EVER asked me not to say something because it's racist, or change the way I do things.
There's a lot I don't like about this country. I don't like our Government, I didn't vote for them, so I'm in my rigts to swear when they keep doing things that annoy me. I don't like our media, and the way they feel that Sven Goran Erikson's sex life is the subject of front page news. But there's a lot that I do like. Maybe not 'traditional' British things, so does that make me patriotic, or not?
I don't know. :-)
This boring, frustrating argument isn't even why I posted my original thread.
Nobody here, at all, not one person said anything about St George's Day.
And nobody has offered any reason (other than YH's flippant "I took the day off" comment) as to why the didn't make any mention, yet so many opinions below are going over the same old arguments and points.
You think "darkies" are to blame for the state of this country?
You think they are trying to "take over our culture" then good luck to. But not one person has offered one single valid reason for why foreigners are anything other than a plus, to teach about integration and tolerance.
"You can't even order black coffee"
Oh please....
Nobody here, at all, not one person said anything about St George's Day.
And nobody has offered any reason (other than YH's flippant "I took the day off" comment) as to why the didn't make any mention, yet so many opinions below are going over the same old arguments and points.
You think "darkies" are to blame for the state of this country?
You think they are trying to "take over our culture" then good luck to. But not one person has offered one single valid reason for why foreigners are anything other than a plus, to teach about integration and tolerance.
"You can't even order black coffee"
Oh please....
The Daily Mail (in all it's wisdom, the 'tards) ran a campaign to get rid of everything Greek after those idiots got themselvs arrested for spying. The 'tards.
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