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"Final Fantasy XI is DOOMED to fail"

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Sat 02/02/02 at 18:02
Regular
Posts: 787
Why?

Well, assuming you want to play this game, and you already have PS2, you HAVE to buy the following:

GAME
MODEM
HARD DRIVE
KEYBOARD
SUBSCRIPTION to PlayOnline.

How many people outside Japan perhaps will bother. I was slightly annoyed I have to buy an expansion pack for some 64 game, but this game's requirments are obscene!

Sonic
Wed 06/02/02 at 19:31
Regular
"Dont come here ofte"
Posts: 4,264
Latest release delay of FF11 to July in Japan doesn't bode well does it, god knows when we will see it in the UK anyway.
Wed 06/02/02 at 16:18
Regular
"---SOULJACKER---"
Posts: 5,448
Appologies for including a reply of a reply... but here it is....

Belldandy wrote:
> ===SONICRAV---> wrote:
I am not singling out Sony. Microsoft have no add ons
> to the console
> except for the DVD remote- which I explain is so low in
> cost that gamers will
> part with ther cash for it- just like PS2 players
> have bought the PS2 remote. I
> also commented on Nintendo- but since they
> haven't announced modem plans I can't
> really say much about them. Then you
> have Sony who have announced a Modem AND
> harddrive... so that's what I was
> discussing. Thank you for not paying any
> attention to the post...

The
> DVD remote is an add on as you cannot play DVDs without it, unlike Sony's. If
> that isnt an add on then..... I am paying attention to the post, as the X
> box/Gamecube are related to the Playstation 2 - being the main competition. X
> Box has the HDD built in so its entirely relevant !

Whether you class the DVD remote for the PS2 and xbox is a completely padantic point. The point is that BOTH will sell well because they're cheap add ons- under £30. And what the hell are you talking about the xbox having a HDD being relevant for- I've been arguing this from page 1!


*************


>It has??? Do you know
> how many console gamesr
> there are in comparison to PC gamers... hundreds
> of millions of console gamers,
> and only a few million PC gamers. The main
> reason for this is the people DON'T
> want to update and upgrade their
> system and buy add-ons... the whole point of a
> console.

Have you
> actually seen the kind of online PC gaming communities there are ? That alone is
> proof of how succesful PC gaming is. Hundreds of millions of console games ???
> Now whose not thinking, thats blatant exageration ! Or if it isn't, where did
> the fact come from ?

Where do I get the 100's of millions of console gamers... well, there have been 100million PSX (and PS1) sales worldwide, 10 million Dreamcast sales, 2 million X box sales, and about 2 million GC sales...

gtg... willl talk more when I get home


Sonic
Tue 05/02/02 at 20:04
Regular
"Gamertag Star Fury"
Posts: 2,710
MoJoJoJo wrote:
> "Belldandy, please think before you write:"
Everyone thinks before
> they write
Whether they think a lot is another matter...

Isn't this rather obvious MoJoJoJo ? I mean you're proving your point just by typing this surely ?:) At least Im staying on topic, which is more than you're doing !
Tue 05/02/02 at 19:57
Regular
"Gamertag Star Fury"
Posts: 2,710
sPiKe2k wrote:
> leave sonic alone! he is entitled to his views and his arguement is backed up
> well..good topic i say!!

My argument is also backed up and I'm entitled to my views as well. The whole point of a forum is to discuss a topic, not blindly fall over ourselves in agreement. With a title like that he's inviting people to challenge his views, which I'm doing.
Tue 05/02/02 at 19:52
Regular
"Gamertag Star Fury"
Posts: 2,710
===SONICRAV---> wrote:
I am not singling out Sony. Microsoft have no add ons to the console
> except for the DVD remote- which I explain is so low in cost that gamers will
> part with ther cash for it- just like PS2 players have bought the PS2 remote. I
> also commented on Nintendo- but since they haven't announced modem plans I can't
> really say much about them. Then you have Sony who have announced a Modem AND
> harddrive... so that's what I was discussing. Thank you for not paying any
> attention to the post...

The DVD remote is an add on as you cannot play DVDs without it, unlike Sony's. If that isnt an add on then..... I am paying attention to the post, as the X box/Gamecube are related to the Playstation 2 - being the main competition. X Box has the HDD built in so its entirely relevant !

>It has??? Do you know how many console gamesr
> there are in comparison to PC gamers... hundreds of millions of console gamers,
> and only a few million PC gamers. The main reason for this is the people DON'T
> want to update and upgrade their system and buy add-ons... the whole point of a
> console.

Have you actually seen the kind of online PC gaming communities there are ? That alone is proof of how succesful PC gaming is. Hundreds of millions of console games ??? Now whose not thinking, thats blatant exageration ! Or if it isn't, where did the fact come from ?

>The modem will take off- I accept this.
> However, will the HDD? What does it do? Well, except for needing it to play
> FFXI, the only use for games is getting new levels. Will Joe Bloggs casual gamer
> buy a new add on just to get new levels. no. Will developers support something
> that casual gamers won't buy. no.

Well I guess a HDD could be used to SAVE INTERNET DOWNLOADS ?? This alone is going ot ensure it does well, many gamers want internet use iwthout the hassle of the PC and the "joys" of Internet Explorer :) Sony's vision is one of interconnectivity, devices linking to other devices. Already third party products allow the transfer of save games to the PC for storage. I think that a lot of gamers will want to save internet downloads like MP3s, and the HDD will increase the cache size of the browser Sony chooses to use. When GT3 was released the sterring wheel sold really well, 69.99 for a sterring wheel for one game, and I think thats a pretty good indicator of how the HDD will sell.

>Well, not better than
> Xbox... not worse. Both have good points...
But anyway, a gamer is deciding
> between an Xbox and a PS2. If they decide to get the PS2, they probably won't
> buy a modem and HDD with it... these are completely separate things. You have
> too much faith in casual gamers- they grumble just because they have to buy a
> memory card!

I've already said earlier in a post that I think the idea of "the casual gamer" isn't really true anymore. People moan about the memory card, but they buy it, people moan about the price of games but still buy them. No one at Sony gives one iota about moaning, it is sales they are after, and come the release day these two items are going to sell.

>Complete rubbish. A lesser
> proportion of Xboxs have failed than PS2s. PS2 failures are at 12%, Xbox at 6%.
> Also, the complete rubbish about costing loads to replace an xbox... errrr... it
> has nothing to do with MS. You take it to the RETAILER and they replace
> it.

And how many items have you tried to return to Microsoft ? I never said anything about hte cost to replace an X Box, just that what Microsoft asks for to cover their charges, on PC hardware, generally makes it a waste of time. Sony's replacement scheme is that you contact SONY for a replacement console, and Microsoft will do exactly the same, no shop is going to want be giving £300 refunds on an item they don't know is genuinelly faulty.



>NOPE! It's determined by the law. Example. Friend of mine
> bought a Video with a 1 year warranty. Failed after 1.5 years. he told them
> about sales of goods. They said "no" So, he went to the small claims
> court, and they agreed that the product whould last longer than it did- so he
> got a new one.
Oh, and do you know what biased
> means??!??!?!

A vcr isnt the same kind of product as a console, the amount it is used is way in excess. Vcrs are nowhere near as well made or advanced as most consoles are. Just because you're friend wins one case doesnt mean everyone else magically does as well. As for the biased thing, well its a little hazy....erm.....hmmm.....can't quite grasp it yet..... sarcasm is the lowest form of wit after all.


Small claims courts DON'T HAVE LEGAL TEAMS in
> them. Do some research. If they did, it is cheaper to give DVDs away than get a
> good legal team.

Legal teams are involved, though not in the court. They can provide information though. With consoles just using an unlicensed peripheral is technically enough to void the guarantee, as are numerous other things that most gamers do. It isn't cheaper, as one persons success with an item could lead to more claims, plus the publicity is bad too.
Tue 05/02/02 at 07:55
Regular
"l33t cs50r"
Posts: 2,956
===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> Complete rubbish. A lesser proportion of Xboxs have failed than PS2s. PS2 failures are at 12%, Xbox at 6%.

Ok, nice figures but % of what? % of total sales? % of launch machines? 12% of 20 million plus machines compared to 6% of 1million machines is a bit different... So that would be 2,400,000 bu*gered PS2's in almost 2 years vs 60,000 bu*gered XBOX's in less than 3 months...

As I said, nice figures:-)
Mon 04/02/02 at 23:00
Regular
"That's right!"
Posts: 10,645
"Belldandy, please think before you write:"

Everyone thinks before they write

Whether they think a lot is another matter...
Mon 04/02/02 at 22:59
Regular
"Touched!"
Posts: 4,910
leave sonic alone! he is entitled to his views and his arguement is backed up well..good topic i say!!
Mon 04/02/02 at 21:43
Regular
"---SOULJACKER---"
Posts: 5,448
Belldandy, please think before you write:


"Sonic, I've read your other forum topic and I don't buy it, you are singling Sony out for undue criticism...you've got an X Box or Gamecube on order I guess :) lol"

I own a PS2, will be buying a Gamecube, and have no wish to buy an xbox at the moment.

I am not singling out Sony. Microsoft have no add ons to the console except for the DVD remote- which I explain is so low in cost that gamers will part with ther cash for it- just like PS2 players have bought the PS2 remote. I also commented on Nintendo- but since they haven't announced modem plans I can't really say much about them. Then you have Sony who have announced a Modem AND harddrive... so that's what I was discussing. Thank you for not paying any attention to the post...



"Anyway the PC market has had add ons since it began. That's survived because games were brought out that were good and needed the hardware."

It has??? Do you know how many console gamesr there are in comparison to PC gamers... hundreds of millions of console gamers, and only a few million PC gamers. The main reason for this is the people DON'T want to update and upgrade their system and buy add-ons... the whole point of a console.



"The same will be ture for the Playstation add ons, and you do not necessarily need tons of games for the HDD as it's going to be useful for the Internet features anyway."

The modem will take off- I accept this. However, will the HDD? What does it do? Well, except for needing it to play FFXI, the only use for games is getting new levels. Will Joe Bloggs casual gamer buy a new add on just to get new levels. no. Will developers support something that casual gamers won't buy. no.

However, if sony package the hdd with the modem, or with FFXI, then it might take off.

In response to your point about the HDDs other net options... will average gamers buy a whole new add-on just to saev MP3s and pictures off the web?

"It comes down to the fact that, in the near future, for £330 someone can buy a Playstation 2, HDD, and modem, which will still be better than the X Box."

Well, not better than Xbox... not worse. Both have good points...

But anyway, a gamer is deciding between an Xbox and a PS2. If they decide to get the PS2, they probably won't buy a modem and HDD with it... these are completely separate things. You have too much faith in casual gamers- they grumble just because they have to buy a memory card!

"Yes, theX box does have all these features...apart from out of the box DVD (nice little trick to get those DVD remotes sold eh Microsoft?) but if one of the many components fails then you'v got a £330 box of junk after 1 year, unless Microsoft change their returns policy. Anyone who has tried to return any hardware to Microsoft outside of the 1 year guarantee will probably back me up on this. Its near impossible, and covered by so many "administration fees", "shipping fees" e.t.c that it's cheaper to just buy a new one. "


Complete rubbish. A lesser proportion of Xboxs have failed than PS2s. PS2 failures are at 12%, Xbox at 6%. Also, the complete rubbish about costing loads to replace an xbox... errrr... it has nothing to do with MS. You take it to the RETAILER and they replace it.

"I saw earlier, in another topic, about the Sale of Goods act thing you were on about and I think you've got it interpreted a bit biasedly (is that a word ?!) you can return stuff if it is faulty, but not if the fault is from "reasonable use" - this is determined by the manufacturer, not the customer."

NOPE! It's determined by the law. Example. Friend of mine bought a Video with a 1 year warranty. Failed after 1.5 years. he told them about sales of goods. They said "no" So, he went to the small claims court, and they agreed that the product whould last longer than it did- so he got a new one.

Oh, and do you know what biased means??!??!?!


"Threatening to take stores to the small claims
court is nice, but most shops, and certainly the chain I work for, will happily take you to court safe in the knowledge that their legal team will blast you out of the water, metaphorically speaking ! Of course if you live in a houseboat and they really do blow you out of the water then you've probably go a pretty good claims case there :)"


Small claims courts DON'T HAVE LEGAL TEAMS in them. Do some research. If they did, it is cheaper to give DVDs away than get a good legal team.

Sonic
Mon 04/02/02 at 15:07
Regular
"l33t cs50r"
Posts: 2,956
Bleeders wrote:
> It's the casual gamer that has to be convinced. Do you honestly see Joe Public lashing out £150 for both the Hard-Disk and Modem?

Ho Hum... I've been trying to explain that they probably wont have to if it's based on the same sales model as SKY... "x" ammount a month and that includes a subsidy for the hardware which you would own at the end of your 12 month contract. They have been using this model in Japan for the last couple of months and it's been working extreemly well.


>The same will be ture for the Playstation add ons, and you do not necessarily need tons of games for the HDD as it's going to be useful for the Internet features anyway.


Such as Streaming movies, game dowloads, music etc etc...


>The Dreamcast offered the Internet out of the box, what makes Sony's plight any different? Yes, they've got the bigger user-base, but why would Joe Public want to buy the Modem.

Sega did come staright from the box, but with no dedicated network or support, this is where Sony have been different, they are making sure the network is there first, something they have been testing in Manchester with TeleWest since Xmas. Sony are commited to bringing the Playstation brand into the online community world, this has been part of their plan since day 1 but unlike Sega, they are planning it properly so that there will be reliable networks, proper support and minimal cost to the gamer...


>Sorry if I'm reading between the lines on this one, but by that logic, you could say it was smart of Sony not to implement 4 controller ports just to sell multi-taps?

> Especially since 95% of the next-gen consoles come with 4 ports as standard.


It has two ports because of the 32bit in/out needed to make it backward compatible with the previous PSOne. The processor couldn't handle 4 ports but in theory, they could end up releasing a USB version of the pad giving the PS2 4 ports alltogether.

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