The "General Games Chat" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
For the first time in years, there are more than two serious consoles hitting the market. Even more amazingly, two of these consoles are launching head-to-head, and the other is extremely well established... both with brand name and games.
So, not only has Nintendo got to compete with Sony (again!), but this time Microsoft have joined the scene. Add to that, the PS2 has had two Christmases worth of sales, and a huge repetoire of games, and the Xbox has a huge marketting budget (and a strong launch to go).
Clearly, Nintendo cannot compete with Microsoft on the TV screens- they simply don't ahve the money for that.
Oh no... Ninty have a far greater weapon at their disposly- games. And lots of them. With characters and franchises ranging from Mario and Zelda to Metroid and Kirby you wouldn't be suprised if Nintendo launched the Gamecube with the best line up of AAA titles seen...
In fact, I thought Nintendo had gone one better when they announced, a while back, that they had given the rights to many of their games away. Metroid, Smash Brothers and Starfox, amongst others, were to have sequals made by developers outside Nintendo. This would then enable Nintendo to concentrate on making some of the most spectacular games ever. Maybe a new Zelda for launch? Maybe something totally new!
But alas, things seem to be crumbling. First we hear news of Ninty's in house games. It turns out that Mario and Zelda will be absent from launch, to be replaced by a couple of weaker games. Ok, so the in house games are good fun, no doubt, BUT will these attract gamers to buy the Gamcube. Methinks not.
Nor will the news of a new Zelda wet gamers appetites- 90% of gamers are the casual sort who will buy a console on brandname alone, and don't read multiformat mags. How are Nintendo going to get these gamers to part with their PS2s, and buy a console that looks like a kids toy? (Sorry, but the console doesn't look "serious".)
OH! And things get worse!...
Those franchised games Ninty have given out aren't all they were promised to be.
At Spaceworld, there was a big absence of Metroid clips- only 8 seconds of the game were shown. Asked why this was, Mr. Miyamoto had to admit that he'd only got the code for the game just before the show, and he wasn't impressed by what he saw. The game had bad pop-up, no sound, was not interactive, and certainly wasn't worth the months of work that had been spent on it. (I believe the game was 8 months into developent at this time!). In fact, the whole future of the game looked on a knife edge.
The other games Ninty had handed out were all good, but many were so far from ready that you wonder why Nintendo didn't just make one of these games themselves to get it out at launch.
Before Nintendo fans throw a riot, let me just saya few things:
1) I am only talking about launch titles
2) I'm a huge Miyamoto fan and will be buying a GC myself
3) This topic is MEANT to cause discussion.
Oh, and remember, all the titles that miss release will come out eventually. So those Zeldas and Marios will certainly mean the console is a great piece of kit. That;s not what I'm arguing about.
I just want to know where all of Ninty's time has gone? They've given away many of their big games, has ages to make a killer titles, and instead they come out with Pikmin... fun, but not AAA by any means.
Sonic
So, not only has Nintendo got to compete with Sony (again!), but this time Microsoft have joined the scene. Add to that, the PS2 has had two Christmases worth of sales, and a huge repetoire of games, and the Xbox has a huge marketting budget (and a strong launch to go).
Clearly, Nintendo cannot compete with Microsoft on the TV screens- they simply don't ahve the money for that.
Oh no... Ninty have a far greater weapon at their disposly- games. And lots of them. With characters and franchises ranging from Mario and Zelda to Metroid and Kirby you wouldn't be suprised if Nintendo launched the Gamecube with the best line up of AAA titles seen...
In fact, I thought Nintendo had gone one better when they announced, a while back, that they had given the rights to many of their games away. Metroid, Smash Brothers and Starfox, amongst others, were to have sequals made by developers outside Nintendo. This would then enable Nintendo to concentrate on making some of the most spectacular games ever. Maybe a new Zelda for launch? Maybe something totally new!
But alas, things seem to be crumbling. First we hear news of Ninty's in house games. It turns out that Mario and Zelda will be absent from launch, to be replaced by a couple of weaker games. Ok, so the in house games are good fun, no doubt, BUT will these attract gamers to buy the Gamcube. Methinks not.
Nor will the news of a new Zelda wet gamers appetites- 90% of gamers are the casual sort who will buy a console on brandname alone, and don't read multiformat mags. How are Nintendo going to get these gamers to part with their PS2s, and buy a console that looks like a kids toy? (Sorry, but the console doesn't look "serious".)
OH! And things get worse!...
Those franchised games Ninty have given out aren't all they were promised to be.
At Spaceworld, there was a big absence of Metroid clips- only 8 seconds of the game were shown. Asked why this was, Mr. Miyamoto had to admit that he'd only got the code for the game just before the show, and he wasn't impressed by what he saw. The game had bad pop-up, no sound, was not interactive, and certainly wasn't worth the months of work that had been spent on it. (I believe the game was 8 months into developent at this time!). In fact, the whole future of the game looked on a knife edge.
The other games Ninty had handed out were all good, but many were so far from ready that you wonder why Nintendo didn't just make one of these games themselves to get it out at launch.
Before Nintendo fans throw a riot, let me just saya few things:
1) I am only talking about launch titles
2) I'm a huge Miyamoto fan and will be buying a GC myself
3) This topic is MEANT to cause discussion.
Oh, and remember, all the titles that miss release will come out eventually. So those Zeldas and Marios will certainly mean the console is a great piece of kit. That;s not what I'm arguing about.
I just want to know where all of Ninty's time has gone? They've given away many of their big games, has ages to make a killer titles, and instead they come out with Pikmin... fun, but not AAA by any means.
Sonic
Page:
Well you know i could stand firm until Strafex arrived and what a killer their Strafex ending it all in one fell swoop.
Strafex is right nearly everyone i have spoke to has said i will get an x-box AND the PS2 when it goes to like £100. It is true i think i can name 20. PRice is vital and as for adventure games well thats hardcore and Hardcore know the real adverntures are yet to come so lets face it no Mario or Zelda but do casual gamers care? I think SSX Tricky, Tony Hawks 3, Super Smash Brothers, Wave Race, Munkey Ball, Simpson's road rage, Luigi's mansion will appeal to casual gamers to be honest.
And maybe not right at the launch but soon after the casual gamers will know about them.
Strafex is right nearly everyone i have spoke to has said i will get an x-box AND the PS2 when it goes to like £100. It is true i think i can name 20. PRice is vital and as for adventure games well thats hardcore and Hardcore know the real adverntures are yet to come so lets face it no Mario or Zelda but do casual gamers care? I think SSX Tricky, Tony Hawks 3, Super Smash Brothers, Wave Race, Munkey Ball, Simpson's road rage, Luigi's mansion will appeal to casual gamers to be honest.
And maybe not right at the launch but soon after the casual gamers will know about them.
Yeah, but that makes it a kind of hollow victory.
'Xbox sold more than GC!... maybe it was because of some crappy ads, but that is not the point!'
anyway, GC may still do well, I think Resi Evil on the console (and Eternal Darkness, although it is not a recognised franchise) will go some way to show casual gamers the GC is not just for kids.
'Xbox sold more than GC!... maybe it was because of some crappy ads, but that is not the point!'
anyway, GC may still do well, I think Resi Evil on the console (and Eternal Darkness, although it is not a recognised franchise) will go some way to show casual gamers the GC is not just for kids.
Oh, I never said Ninty would go the way of Sega... they'll certainly make a profit due to their hardcore fans, and younger fans...
However, I do disagree with some of your points...
I think people will buy the Xbox simply because the ads will make it look amazing, and it'll get loads of publicity- despite the slightly hig price.
The PS2 vs GC thing will turn out in the PS2's favour, simply because of the brand, and the cute imagine of Ninty (which will continue as soon as people see what the GC actually looks like! It's like a kid's toy!)
Sonic
However, I do disagree with some of your points...
I think people will buy the Xbox simply because the ads will make it look amazing, and it'll get loads of publicity- despite the slightly hig price.
The PS2 vs GC thing will turn out in the PS2's favour, simply because of the brand, and the cute imagine of Ninty (which will continue as soon as people see what the GC actually looks like! It's like a kid's toy!)
Sonic
Most casual gamers think of price as much as games.
They don't look at a game's length either.
With the XBox at 300, most will say "good but I'll wait until it's cheaper" which leaves the cheaper Gamecube more time to sell.
And there's the PS2 Vs Gamecube.
Both are priced at 200, more or less affordable.
So the Gamecube didn't have a HUGE adventure from Nintendo at launch. Most casual mainsreamers don't care for game length.
Both have the casual-pulling Fifa.
Both have franchised games to get fans.
Some will see the Gamecube as newer and more advanced.
Others will go for the Sony brand.
Either way, the Gamecube has a very fair chance with the casual market when you think of it this way.
It's games generally look smoother and nicer than PS2 games and although it doesn't completely blow it's competitor out of the water, there is a fairly noticable improvement in the Gamecube games, as you would expect from a console that is a year newer.
I think that Nintendo will have more than enough sales to get a nice rosy profit from. They might not outsell Sony or Microsoft but I think they'll make a profit strong enough to stop them seeing the red figures Sega style.
They don't look at a game's length either.
With the XBox at 300, most will say "good but I'll wait until it's cheaper" which leaves the cheaper Gamecube more time to sell.
And there's the PS2 Vs Gamecube.
Both are priced at 200, more or less affordable.
So the Gamecube didn't have a HUGE adventure from Nintendo at launch. Most casual mainsreamers don't care for game length.
Both have the casual-pulling Fifa.
Both have franchised games to get fans.
Some will see the Gamecube as newer and more advanced.
Others will go for the Sony brand.
Either way, the Gamecube has a very fair chance with the casual market when you think of it this way.
It's games generally look smoother and nicer than PS2 games and although it doesn't completely blow it's competitor out of the water, there is a fairly noticable improvement in the Gamecube games, as you would expect from a console that is a year newer.
I think that Nintendo will have more than enough sales to get a nice rosy profit from. They might not outsell Sony or Microsoft but I think they'll make a profit strong enough to stop them seeing the red figures Sega style.
Dringo wrote:
But as i have said before a
> few weeks at the release of the system can hardly be held responsible for the
> next 5 years. Although not as much as Sony people will get the Gamecube. Those
> people's friends will play on it, one of them might get one, there friends play
> on it. When goldeneye was release and all those people played on Goldeneye the
> N64's sales rose dramatically probably saving itself in Europe.
Ah, but how many casual Joe Bloggs people buy more than one console? The fact is thatnot many gamers actually bother... so the GC has to get high amounts of early sales.
As for the N64 picking up sales... well, the price plummeted from £250 to about £150 in a couple of weeks!
Sonic
But as i have said before a
> few weeks at the release of the system can hardly be held responsible for the
> next 5 years. Although not as much as Sony people will get the Gamecube. Those
> people's friends will play on it, one of them might get one, there friends play
> on it. When goldeneye was release and all those people played on Goldeneye the
> N64's sales rose dramatically probably saving itself in Europe.
Ah, but how many casual Joe Bloggs people buy more than one console? The fact is thatnot many gamers actually bother... so the GC has to get high amounts of early sales.
As for the N64 picking up sales... well, the price plummeted from £250 to about £150 in a couple of weeks!
Sonic
Compare Nintendo to Sony Computer Entertainment (NOT Sony on a whole) and the Microsoft Gaming Division(Not Microsoft on a whole) and who is the richer company???.
After all Nintendo is the second most 'well off' Gaming company after EA in America.
Now if Nintendo made Tv's, Operating systems, Walkmans, video's......hmmmmm
After all Nintendo is the second most 'well off' Gaming company after EA in America.
Now if Nintendo made Tv's, Operating systems, Walkmans, video's......hmmmmm
I think that Nintendo are the least vunerable financially.
Firstly, while MS and Sony are pouring countless billions into selling the machine, Nintendo are putting in the bare minimum, leaving advertising until it's absolutely neccessary.
Also, it seems that the hardware itself is being sold at a lesser loss than the competiting machines.
And Nintendo get all the revenues for games using it's Optical Disks and Cartriges while DVD makers take a share from Sony and Microsoft's games.
What's more, GBA games (which cost pennies to make compared to the big 3D games on consoles) are being sold for nearly as much as these heavy 3D games.
Nintendo are clearly making VERY big profits there.
And while Nintendo won't sell as many Gamecubes as Sony will Playstations, Nintendo doesn't need to and will still probably make a bigger profit.
Nintendo make a fortune from their own games (almost every single Gamecube owner will be buying Mario and Zelda), and haven't spent countless billions on advertising that they need to make back in order to make a profit.
Nintendo are the safest because they're not relying on their console to be the biggest hit in history, which is what both Microsoft and Sony need to achieve if they're going to make a real profit.
There's more to profit than simply selling in large quantities.
Firstly, while MS and Sony are pouring countless billions into selling the machine, Nintendo are putting in the bare minimum, leaving advertising until it's absolutely neccessary.
Also, it seems that the hardware itself is being sold at a lesser loss than the competiting machines.
And Nintendo get all the revenues for games using it's Optical Disks and Cartriges while DVD makers take a share from Sony and Microsoft's games.
What's more, GBA games (which cost pennies to make compared to the big 3D games on consoles) are being sold for nearly as much as these heavy 3D games.
Nintendo are clearly making VERY big profits there.
And while Nintendo won't sell as many Gamecubes as Sony will Playstations, Nintendo doesn't need to and will still probably make a bigger profit.
Nintendo make a fortune from their own games (almost every single Gamecube owner will be buying Mario and Zelda), and haven't spent countless billions on advertising that they need to make back in order to make a profit.
Nintendo are the safest because they're not relying on their console to be the biggest hit in history, which is what both Microsoft and Sony need to achieve if they're going to make a real profit.
There's more to profit than simply selling in large quantities.
But the fact remains that we get it before you. Also, I think you'll remember that SSX was also at the start of the PS2's career, an equally impressive game!
Grix Thraves wrote:
> You're forgetting the Gameboy again. :0)
Ah, but the GameBoy is nothing compared to Sony and Microsoft's empires.
> You're forgetting the Gameboy again. :0)
Ah, but the GameBoy is nothing compared to Sony and Microsoft's empires.
Oh and about the life line bit yes it has grabbed a few gamers but be warned many are willing to buy more than one console now adays.
Also SSX tricky after a year and a bit Gamecube SSX tricky at the start....
Worries me that Nitnendo get this standards at the start whilst Sony had to wait a year.
Dringo.
Also SSX tricky after a year and a bit Gamecube SSX tricky at the start....
Worries me that Nitnendo get this standards at the start whilst Sony had to wait a year.
Dringo.
Page: