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For the first time in years, there are more than two serious consoles hitting the market. Even more amazingly, two of these consoles are launching head-to-head, and the other is extremely well established... both with brand name and games.
So, not only has Nintendo got to compete with Sony (again!), but this time Microsoft have joined the scene. Add to that, the PS2 has had two Christmases worth of sales, and a huge repetoire of games, and the Xbox has a huge marketting budget (and a strong launch to go).
Clearly, Nintendo cannot compete with Microsoft on the TV screens- they simply don't ahve the money for that.
Oh no... Ninty have a far greater weapon at their disposly- games. And lots of them. With characters and franchises ranging from Mario and Zelda to Metroid and Kirby you wouldn't be suprised if Nintendo launched the Gamecube with the best line up of AAA titles seen...
In fact, I thought Nintendo had gone one better when they announced, a while back, that they had given the rights to many of their games away. Metroid, Smash Brothers and Starfox, amongst others, were to have sequals made by developers outside Nintendo. This would then enable Nintendo to concentrate on making some of the most spectacular games ever. Maybe a new Zelda for launch? Maybe something totally new!
But alas, things seem to be crumbling. First we hear news of Ninty's in house games. It turns out that Mario and Zelda will be absent from launch, to be replaced by a couple of weaker games. Ok, so the in house games are good fun, no doubt, BUT will these attract gamers to buy the Gamcube. Methinks not.
Nor will the news of a new Zelda wet gamers appetites- 90% of gamers are the casual sort who will buy a console on brandname alone, and don't read multiformat mags. How are Nintendo going to get these gamers to part with their PS2s, and buy a console that looks like a kids toy? (Sorry, but the console doesn't look "serious".)
OH! And things get worse!...
Those franchised games Ninty have given out aren't all they were promised to be.
At Spaceworld, there was a big absence of Metroid clips- only 8 seconds of the game were shown. Asked why this was, Mr. Miyamoto had to admit that he'd only got the code for the game just before the show, and he wasn't impressed by what he saw. The game had bad pop-up, no sound, was not interactive, and certainly wasn't worth the months of work that had been spent on it. (I believe the game was 8 months into developent at this time!). In fact, the whole future of the game looked on a knife edge.
The other games Ninty had handed out were all good, but many were so far from ready that you wonder why Nintendo didn't just make one of these games themselves to get it out at launch.
Before Nintendo fans throw a riot, let me just saya few things:
1) I am only talking about launch titles
2) I'm a huge Miyamoto fan and will be buying a GC myself
3) This topic is MEANT to cause discussion.
Oh, and remember, all the titles that miss release will come out eventually. So those Zeldas and Marios will certainly mean the console is a great piece of kit. That;s not what I'm arguing about.
I just want to know where all of Ninty's time has gone? They've given away many of their big games, has ages to make a killer titles, and instead they come out with Pikmin... fun, but not AAA by any means.
Sonic
So, not only has Nintendo got to compete with Sony (again!), but this time Microsoft have joined the scene. Add to that, the PS2 has had two Christmases worth of sales, and a huge repetoire of games, and the Xbox has a huge marketting budget (and a strong launch to go).
Clearly, Nintendo cannot compete with Microsoft on the TV screens- they simply don't ahve the money for that.
Oh no... Ninty have a far greater weapon at their disposly- games. And lots of them. With characters and franchises ranging from Mario and Zelda to Metroid and Kirby you wouldn't be suprised if Nintendo launched the Gamecube with the best line up of AAA titles seen...
In fact, I thought Nintendo had gone one better when they announced, a while back, that they had given the rights to many of their games away. Metroid, Smash Brothers and Starfox, amongst others, were to have sequals made by developers outside Nintendo. This would then enable Nintendo to concentrate on making some of the most spectacular games ever. Maybe a new Zelda for launch? Maybe something totally new!
But alas, things seem to be crumbling. First we hear news of Ninty's in house games. It turns out that Mario and Zelda will be absent from launch, to be replaced by a couple of weaker games. Ok, so the in house games are good fun, no doubt, BUT will these attract gamers to buy the Gamcube. Methinks not.
Nor will the news of a new Zelda wet gamers appetites- 90% of gamers are the casual sort who will buy a console on brandname alone, and don't read multiformat mags. How are Nintendo going to get these gamers to part with their PS2s, and buy a console that looks like a kids toy? (Sorry, but the console doesn't look "serious".)
OH! And things get worse!...
Those franchised games Ninty have given out aren't all they were promised to be.
At Spaceworld, there was a big absence of Metroid clips- only 8 seconds of the game were shown. Asked why this was, Mr. Miyamoto had to admit that he'd only got the code for the game just before the show, and he wasn't impressed by what he saw. The game had bad pop-up, no sound, was not interactive, and certainly wasn't worth the months of work that had been spent on it. (I believe the game was 8 months into developent at this time!). In fact, the whole future of the game looked on a knife edge.
The other games Ninty had handed out were all good, but many were so far from ready that you wonder why Nintendo didn't just make one of these games themselves to get it out at launch.
Before Nintendo fans throw a riot, let me just saya few things:
1) I am only talking about launch titles
2) I'm a huge Miyamoto fan and will be buying a GC myself
3) This topic is MEANT to cause discussion.
Oh, and remember, all the titles that miss release will come out eventually. So those Zeldas and Marios will certainly mean the console is a great piece of kit. That;s not what I'm arguing about.
I just want to know where all of Ninty's time has gone? They've given away many of their big games, has ages to make a killer titles, and instead they come out with Pikmin... fun, but not AAA by any means.
Sonic
Page:
Sméagol wrote:
> Nintendo's future bleak?
Nope!
errrrrrr??? What a waste of time! Why did you even post this! It makes no valid contribution... I'm not going to shout at you more than I do at dringo! At least he makes damn good posts!
Sonic
> Nintendo's future bleak?
Nope!
errrrrrr??? What a waste of time! Why did you even post this! It makes no valid contribution... I'm not going to shout at you more than I do at dringo! At least he makes damn good posts!
Sonic
Nintendo's future bleak?
Nope!
Nope!
Jet Set radio... easily a 90% title... sold like rubbish...
Reason: it wasn't the mass market game that the public (japanese at least) wanted.
Ninty make some great games, but I'm still not convinced how mass market their appeal will be. Even with the companies "short and sweet" policy, nothing has changed! They're making the same old games.
Rather than make a huge action adventure game that casual gamers will love, they make a shorter version of Mario... and Mario won't pull in the crowds as much as a big action adventure.
(I'm not saying they should get rid of mario.. that was just an example trying to show how they are going around becoming mass market in the wrong way).
Sonic
Reason: it wasn't the mass market game that the public (japanese at least) wanted.
Ninty make some great games, but I'm still not convinced how mass market their appeal will be. Even with the companies "short and sweet" policy, nothing has changed! They're making the same old games.
Rather than make a huge action adventure game that casual gamers will love, they make a shorter version of Mario... and Mario won't pull in the crowds as much as a big action adventure.
(I'm not saying they should get rid of mario.. that was just an example trying to show how they are going around becoming mass market in the wrong way).
Sonic
Metroid isn't a disaster, it wasn't working so they are re-doing it and straightening out what wasn't working don't confuse Shigsy not liking where it was heading and its current status.
Mantis as for Adult titles: RE1,2,3,4,0, Eternal Darkness, Perfect Dark, maybe Conker, Too Human etc... Resi likes horror games and he's coming back to Nintendo.
Back to you Sonic you must be aware Nintendo have 25 yet announced titles! Mario's next platformer is in the works in fact it's only 6 months away in Japan with the new Zelda a year away. Those are Nintendo's biggest titles. the Pokemon game has no name, is it Meowth's Party or the killer of all games the 3D upgrade of the Gameboy classic?
Rare also have many unnounced titles, PD0 was announced although not heavily publicised and there is still another big name title to be release either: Conker, Banjo, Killer Instinct, or new GT3 beater. Rare have unnounced titles what are HAL doing now they've finished smash Brothers? What are left field doing now 1080 is having a rest? Is Silicon Knights still working on Too Human?
the biggest names on the N64 were, Perfect Dark, Mario, Zelda, Banjo, Conker, Turok etc...
PD, Zelda, Conker and Turok are all appearing in the first year, Pikmin is a new big name for Ninty, we also have smaller names appearing like Star Fox, Kirby and then theres the third parties straying from the point but Resident Evil is no longer a Sony big name its a Nintendo big name and that is also appearing next year.
I will need a lot of money if i want all the 90+ percent games that will come next year... Look out for Kameo for revolutionising RPG's and DOnkey Kong Racing for inventing a new style of racer.
Why isn't this enough for you Sonic? All the big names are there plus some!
Mantis as for Adult titles: RE1,2,3,4,0, Eternal Darkness, Perfect Dark, maybe Conker, Too Human etc... Resi likes horror games and he's coming back to Nintendo.
Back to you Sonic you must be aware Nintendo have 25 yet announced titles! Mario's next platformer is in the works in fact it's only 6 months away in Japan with the new Zelda a year away. Those are Nintendo's biggest titles. the Pokemon game has no name, is it Meowth's Party or the killer of all games the 3D upgrade of the Gameboy classic?
Rare also have many unnounced titles, PD0 was announced although not heavily publicised and there is still another big name title to be release either: Conker, Banjo, Killer Instinct, or new GT3 beater. Rare have unnounced titles what are HAL doing now they've finished smash Brothers? What are left field doing now 1080 is having a rest? Is Silicon Knights still working on Too Human?
the biggest names on the N64 were, Perfect Dark, Mario, Zelda, Banjo, Conker, Turok etc...
PD, Zelda, Conker and Turok are all appearing in the first year, Pikmin is a new big name for Ninty, we also have smaller names appearing like Star Fox, Kirby and then theres the third parties straying from the point but Resident Evil is no longer a Sony big name its a Nintendo big name and that is also appearing next year.
I will need a lot of money if i want all the 90+ percent games that will come next year... Look out for Kameo for revolutionising RPG's and DOnkey Kong Racing for inventing a new style of racer.
Why isn't this enough for you Sonic? All the big names are there plus some!
Mantis makes my point exactly... The GC will have great games... but not at launch...
Anyway, we've had enough bickering about that... bringing the topic back to the original post...
I made the point about Ninty letting other developers produce their games for them... in some cases this has been a disaster (Metroid) and in some cases it is looking great (Starfox).
However, dispite all that, Ninty have yet to produce a killer title from either these 2nd party games, or it's own in house teams...
WHY!??!?
Sonic
Anyway, we've had enough bickering about that... bringing the topic back to the original post...
I made the point about Ninty letting other developers produce their games for them... in some cases this has been a disaster (Metroid) and in some cases it is looking great (Starfox).
However, dispite all that, Ninty have yet to produce a killer title from either these 2nd party games, or it's own in house teams...
WHY!??!?
Sonic
The GC will have some truly great games in the form of Mario Sunshine, Zelda etc, but when will these great games arrive? They could probably arive on our shores 1 year after the GC launch in the UK, but by then it might be too late.
It's the GC launch that it will be judged. Sony were complacent with the launch of the PS2 but they managed to get away with it, the xbox has a very tasty launch line up of games which will attract hardcore and casual gamers alike but the GC... it seams to have large holes in key areas.
Sonic is right, there are very few racers that will attract casual gamers towards the GC. The GC also has few FPS which is a popular genre in the UK. The residnet evil series are the only mature games that I would like to own a GC for, but that sadly isn't enough.
The GC will excel in adventure and platform games, genres which Nintendo do best. Unfortunetly these are genres which are associated with kiddie games. Sorry, but its true.
The GC will do aswell as expected. A hit with Nintendo fans but sadly casual gamers will turn to the PS2 and xbox.
It's the GC launch that it will be judged. Sony were complacent with the launch of the PS2 but they managed to get away with it, the xbox has a very tasty launch line up of games which will attract hardcore and casual gamers alike but the GC... it seams to have large holes in key areas.
Sonic is right, there are very few racers that will attract casual gamers towards the GC. The GC also has few FPS which is a popular genre in the UK. The residnet evil series are the only mature games that I would like to own a GC for, but that sadly isn't enough.
The GC will excel in adventure and platform games, genres which Nintendo do best. Unfortunetly these are genres which are associated with kiddie games. Sorry, but its true.
The GC will do aswell as expected. A hit with Nintendo fans but sadly casual gamers will turn to the PS2 and xbox.
The_King wrote:
However, brefily Nintendo
> haven't let themselves down at launch - did you know that the GC has out sold
> the Xbox in the US by a factor of 3-1! Know why, because other than Halo all the
> Xbox launch titles aren't that good - trust me i know! Im not say the GC has a
> killer list of games, but at launch the Cube certinly has a better line up. You
> said yourself that a console needs to appeal the casual gamer - this is what
> Nintendo is all about, to say that games like GT3 are what causal gamers want is
> folly - i can give you sell through figures if you want but i need to be at work
> for that! GT3 is a harcore driving games, people that wanna pickup a joypad and
> play don't play GT3
You play Sega Rally, thats casual... i belive.
they'd play sokthing like GTA3 (the bst selling game this
> xmas) or if they want to play a racing hgame somthing like Waverace of Wipeout
> is far more popular. Within the video game industry (and the games press) there
> is a great deal of uncertanty about the Xbox, no one know how it will do -
> Microsoft have it all to prove and most people are keeping a 'wait and see'
> approch. By contrast pretty much everyone is up beat toward the relase of the GC
> (check out Novembers MCV trade paper if you can get hold of one)!
And one
> last point, buying Bungie doesn't give Microsoft SOME great games, it gives them
> ONE great game! Without which the XBox's release would be in real trouble.
> However, Bungie are not what you'd call prolific developers, they've produced 2
> games and one of those is Halo!
I think buying Rare and Eternal Darkness was a good move on Nintendo's past and you've presented some information there which sank in and i liked, i will use the your hypothosis of the GT3 for later use me thinks.
> fail. And im not a die hard Ninty fan either - i just like good games. All im
> doing to putting a few facts and thoughts into this threat. Hmmm, this really
> could BE a chat froum these days! ;-)
Take it easy guys and gals....
However, brefily Nintendo
> haven't let themselves down at launch - did you know that the GC has out sold
> the Xbox in the US by a factor of 3-1! Know why, because other than Halo all the
> Xbox launch titles aren't that good - trust me i know! Im not say the GC has a
> killer list of games, but at launch the Cube certinly has a better line up. You
> said yourself that a console needs to appeal the casual gamer - this is what
> Nintendo is all about, to say that games like GT3 are what causal gamers want is
> folly - i can give you sell through figures if you want but i need to be at work
> for that! GT3 is a harcore driving games, people that wanna pickup a joypad and
> play don't play GT3
You play Sega Rally, thats casual... i belive.
they'd play sokthing like GTA3 (the bst selling game this
> xmas) or if they want to play a racing hgame somthing like Waverace of Wipeout
> is far more popular. Within the video game industry (and the games press) there
> is a great deal of uncertanty about the Xbox, no one know how it will do -
> Microsoft have it all to prove and most people are keeping a 'wait and see'
> approch. By contrast pretty much everyone is up beat toward the relase of the GC
> (check out Novembers MCV trade paper if you can get hold of one)!
And one
> last point, buying Bungie doesn't give Microsoft SOME great games, it gives them
> ONE great game! Without which the XBox's release would be in real trouble.
> However, Bungie are not what you'd call prolific developers, they've produced 2
> games and one of those is Halo!
I think buying Rare and Eternal Darkness was a good move on Nintendo's past and you've presented some information there which sank in and i liked, i will use the your hypothosis of the GT3 for later use me thinks.
> fail. And im not a die hard Ninty fan either - i just like good games. All im
> doing to putting a few facts and thoughts into this threat. Hmmm, this really
> could BE a chat froum these days! ;-)
Take it easy guys and gals....
Hmmmm, just re-read that post and I must apologise for the extremely poor spelling and grammar - I'm totally rushing here as I am paying British TeleCON by the minute! Sorry guys!
The PS2 brands haven't gone downmarket just useless...
Tekken a typical favourite on the PS2, a game that has been ported to the GBA and is heavily rumoured to be on the Gamecube, Soul Calibur 2 the sword weilding side of Tekken is already on the GC release list a big PS2 brand name that is becoming multiformat.
You have already discussed Resident Evil a Huge Playstation name appearing on the GC, Crash Bandicoot also on the Gamecube. SSX another one there, EA are bringing their big titles over such as Agent Under Fire. Metal Gear Solid 3 could well be multiformat oh and Tony Hawks of course. You see Sonic the other post which goes on about Nintendo's possible success told you these games, these games which appealed to the casual gamer appearing on the gamecube as well as Nintendo making their games appear more to casual gamers looks like a shift on the Nintendo front.
As for the GT3 beater well RARE are still rumoured to be doing one, Nintendo were at one point and remmember those racing specialists Left Field have left 1080 temporaraly for what exactly... could it be this rumoured GT3 beater?
Quite frankly with Nintendo's new change, the multiplayer titles from them and Sega and the third party support which pulled gamers towards the PS2 will hopeful prove that Nintendo are now moving towards the casual side of the market, this is a good thing in my book but talk to Strafex he is hating this new stratagy.
Tekken a typical favourite on the PS2, a game that has been ported to the GBA and is heavily rumoured to be on the Gamecube, Soul Calibur 2 the sword weilding side of Tekken is already on the GC release list a big PS2 brand name that is becoming multiformat.
You have already discussed Resident Evil a Huge Playstation name appearing on the GC, Crash Bandicoot also on the Gamecube. SSX another one there, EA are bringing their big titles over such as Agent Under Fire. Metal Gear Solid 3 could well be multiformat oh and Tony Hawks of course. You see Sonic the other post which goes on about Nintendo's possible success told you these games, these games which appealed to the casual gamer appearing on the gamecube as well as Nintendo making their games appear more to casual gamers looks like a shift on the Nintendo front.
As for the GT3 beater well RARE are still rumoured to be doing one, Nintendo were at one point and remmember those racing specialists Left Field have left 1080 temporaraly for what exactly... could it be this rumoured GT3 beater?
Quite frankly with Nintendo's new change, the multiplayer titles from them and Sega and the third party support which pulled gamers towards the PS2 will hopeful prove that Nintendo are now moving towards the casual side of the market, this is a good thing in my book but talk to Strafex he is hating this new stratagy.
Hello again people...
First up, the Darling brother didn't produce SNES games in their garage - by the time the SNES hit the shelves Codemasters were a fully functional company. They DID produce games for the Commadore 64/Speccy in their garage - the clasis BMX simulator and it's sequel instantly come to mind!
I also wanted to respond to number of your points but this'll have to wait until monday morning when i get back to work - nice big T1 connection there so i don't have to worry about running up a HUGE phone bill!
However, brefily Nintendo haven't let themselves down at launch - did you know that the GC has out sold the Xbox in the US by a factor of 3-1! Know why, because other than Halo all the Xbox launch titles aren't that good - trust me i know! Im not say the GC has a killer list of games, but at launch the Cube certinly has a better line up. You said yourself that a console needs to appeal the casual gamer - this is what Nintendo is all about, to say that games like GT3 are what causal gamers want is folly - i can give you sell through figures if you want but i need to be at work for that! GT3 is a harcore driving games, people that wanna pickup a joypad and play don't play GT3 - they'd play sokthing like GTA3 (the bst selling game this xmas) or if they want to play a racing hgame somthing like Waverace of Wipeout is far more popular. Within the video game industry (and the games press) there is a great deal of uncertanty about the Xbox, no one know how it will do - Microsoft have it all to prove and most people are keeping a 'wait and see' approch. By contrast pretty much everyone is up beat toward the relase of the GC (check out Novembers MCV trade paper if you can get hold of one)!
And one last point, buying Bungie doesn't give Microsoft SOME great games, it gives them ONE great game! Without which the XBox's release would be in real trouble. However, Bungie are not what you'd call prolific developers, they've produced 2 games and one of those is Halo!
Oh and finally, don't get me wrong here - i really hope the Xbox does well, i have no relase what so ever to want it to fail. And im not a die hard Ninty fan either - i just like good games. All im doing to putting a few facts and thoughts into this threat. Hmmm, this really could BE a chat froum these days! ;-)
Take it easy guys and gals....
First up, the Darling brother didn't produce SNES games in their garage - by the time the SNES hit the shelves Codemasters were a fully functional company. They DID produce games for the Commadore 64/Speccy in their garage - the clasis BMX simulator and it's sequel instantly come to mind!
I also wanted to respond to number of your points but this'll have to wait until monday morning when i get back to work - nice big T1 connection there so i don't have to worry about running up a HUGE phone bill!
However, brefily Nintendo haven't let themselves down at launch - did you know that the GC has out sold the Xbox in the US by a factor of 3-1! Know why, because other than Halo all the Xbox launch titles aren't that good - trust me i know! Im not say the GC has a killer list of games, but at launch the Cube certinly has a better line up. You said yourself that a console needs to appeal the casual gamer - this is what Nintendo is all about, to say that games like GT3 are what causal gamers want is folly - i can give you sell through figures if you want but i need to be at work for that! GT3 is a harcore driving games, people that wanna pickup a joypad and play don't play GT3 - they'd play sokthing like GTA3 (the bst selling game this xmas) or if they want to play a racing hgame somthing like Waverace of Wipeout is far more popular. Within the video game industry (and the games press) there is a great deal of uncertanty about the Xbox, no one know how it will do - Microsoft have it all to prove and most people are keeping a 'wait and see' approch. By contrast pretty much everyone is up beat toward the relase of the GC (check out Novembers MCV trade paper if you can get hold of one)!
And one last point, buying Bungie doesn't give Microsoft SOME great games, it gives them ONE great game! Without which the XBox's release would be in real trouble. However, Bungie are not what you'd call prolific developers, they've produced 2 games and one of those is Halo!
Oh and finally, don't get me wrong here - i really hope the Xbox does well, i have no relase what so ever to want it to fail. And im not a die hard Ninty fan either - i just like good games. All im doing to putting a few facts and thoughts into this threat. Hmmm, this really could BE a chat froum these days! ;-)
Take it easy guys and gals....
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