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What advice would you give to somebody about to build their first website?
I think I would advise them to look at sites that they like, as well as some of the top sites in the field of interest that the site is addressing, and try to understand why they like them... IE, easy navigation, nice design, good content. Then, try and apply what they have just learnt to their own web site.
Oh, and don't use frames... or the
I think I would advise them to look at sites that they like, as well as some of the top sites in the field of interest that the site is addressing, and try to understand why they like them... IE, easy navigation, nice design, good content. Then, try and apply what they have just learnt to their own web site.
Oh, and don't use frames... or the
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Turbonutter wrote:
> Well, I don't know who you're talking about but it definitely couldn't be
> me.
Ohhhh, handbags at dawn!!!
> I preach the benefits of
> *nix+PHP because they ARE real benefits. I don't really know why anyone went
> with Microsoft products for the Internet anyway; They haven't had much to do
> with the development of it. Everyone seems to look down on PHP, maybe because
> most open source software is considered to be for people on a low budget who
> don't make enough turnover to afford what the "professionals" use.
> Well, in my mind, anyone who can't accept that PHP is better than ASP, and is
> probably one of the best languages for use on the Internet available.
Good points, MS did the famous "stop on a dime" as soon as the Internet started getting big. Even MS realised they stood no chance of taking out all the other Internet technologies. I heard they were developing a suite of tools that was supposed to be the MS version of HTML, but gave up at the last minute.
I haven't used PHP, but I do know that any flavour of Unix / Linux kicks Win 2000 / IIS into touch. IMHO Unix is much more stable and reliable.
Tyla, I
> you show up and all hell breaks loose. Maybe you can't take it that you're
> not the only designer here. You're the best no question, but then it IS your job
> and you do have much more experience.
Hey! I'm not that bad at design for a "techy" am I???? dammit.
*Goes back to drawing board tearfully*
> Well, I don't know who you're talking about but it definitely couldn't be
> me.
Ohhhh, handbags at dawn!!!
> I preach the benefits of
> *nix+PHP because they ARE real benefits. I don't really know why anyone went
> with Microsoft products for the Internet anyway; They haven't had much to do
> with the development of it. Everyone seems to look down on PHP, maybe because
> most open source software is considered to be for people on a low budget who
> don't make enough turnover to afford what the "professionals" use.
> Well, in my mind, anyone who can't accept that PHP is better than ASP, and is
> probably one of the best languages for use on the Internet available.
Good points, MS did the famous "stop on a dime" as soon as the Internet started getting big. Even MS realised they stood no chance of taking out all the other Internet technologies. I heard they were developing a suite of tools that was supposed to be the MS version of HTML, but gave up at the last minute.
I haven't used PHP, but I do know that any flavour of Unix / Linux kicks Win 2000 / IIS into touch. IMHO Unix is much more stable and reliable.
Tyla, I
> you show up and all hell breaks loose. Maybe you can't take it that you're
> not the only designer here. You're the best no question, but then it IS your job
> and you do have much more experience.
Hey! I'm not that bad at design for a "techy" am I???? dammit.
*Goes back to drawing board tearfully*
Tyla wrote:
True, even his own site failed under his own
> guidlines, but the guy does have some good ideas and has awakened the world to
> usability!
Yeh, usability, fair enough, but not at the expense of a site has no originality about it. I remember looking at his site and thinking it was pap. A site should be usable, yes, but it should also be individual. Look nice and work well, thats all. We should take note of the web design rules, but not live to the strict letter of them.
Do you read Cre@teOnline, perchance?
True, even his own site failed under his own
> guidlines, but the guy does have some good ideas and has awakened the world to
> usability!
Yeh, usability, fair enough, but not at the expense of a site has no originality about it. I remember looking at his site and thinking it was pap. A site should be usable, yes, but it should also be individual. Look nice and work well, thats all. We should take note of the web design rules, but not live to the strict letter of them.
Do you read Cre@teOnline, perchance?
funkygamer wrote:
> Tyla wrote:
None of you would be interested
> in my other Mentor... Mr
> Jakob Neilsen so I wont bother with him unless anyone
> asks.
Ahhhh, I
> spit on that man> he wouldn't know a good website if it jumped up and danced
> on his desktop singing "happy days are hear again"
True, even his own site failed under his own guidlines, but the guy does have some good ideas and has awakened the world to usability!
> Tyla wrote:
None of you would be interested
> in my other Mentor... Mr
> Jakob Neilsen so I wont bother with him unless anyone
> asks.
Ahhhh, I
> spit on that man> he wouldn't know a good website if it jumped up and danced
> on his desktop singing "happy days are hear again"
True, even his own site failed under his own guidlines, but the guy does have some good ideas and has awakened the world to usability!
Well, I don't know who you're talking about but it definitely couldn't be me.
I have never, ever said to only develop for IE. As I recall, I said IE4.x and NS4.x at least, that takes care of a very large majority of the web community. I also bear in mind Lynx (which I SSH using occasionally). I test all my sites thoroughly and I have never released one with a design bug in them. I have to work with the design all the way through development, either in IE5.5, NS4.7, Konquerer or Lynx and if it doesn't look right I fix it!
And as I also said, my research although admittadly limited, WAS based on 2000+ UNIQUE hits, with hardly any of them being people I know and NONE of them being me.
As for me neing narrowminded, I don't know what you mean. I preach the benefits of *nix+PHP because they ARE real benefits. I don't really know why anyone went with Microsoft products for the Internet anyway; They haven't had much to do with the development of it. Everyone seems to look down on PHP, maybe because most open source software is considered to be for people on a low budget who don't make enough turnover to afford what the "professionals" use. Well, in my mind, anyone who can't accept that PHP is better than ASP, and is probably one of the best languages for use on the Internet available.
Tyla, I really don't know what's happening here. We were all getting along here just fine until you showed up. Even Dav1d and I had patched things up (long story). Then, you show up and all hell breaks loose. Maybe you can't take it that you're not the only designer here. You're the best no question, but then it IS your job and you do have much more experience. Everything I have ever said to you has been in good fun. Note smiley faces? They're there for a reason. Don't take everything so seriously and lighten up! My last comment was in now way serious yet you go and jump on me! Jeez, take a chill pill and learn to live with it. I'm here, I'm here to stay. Like it or leave it, but if you do decide to stay here (which I would really like) then just get along! Everyone else does, I'm sure you can too.
I have never, ever said to only develop for IE. As I recall, I said IE4.x and NS4.x at least, that takes care of a very large majority of the web community. I also bear in mind Lynx (which I SSH using occasionally). I test all my sites thoroughly and I have never released one with a design bug in them. I have to work with the design all the way through development, either in IE5.5, NS4.7, Konquerer or Lynx and if it doesn't look right I fix it!
And as I also said, my research although admittadly limited, WAS based on 2000+ UNIQUE hits, with hardly any of them being people I know and NONE of them being me.
As for me neing narrowminded, I don't know what you mean. I preach the benefits of *nix+PHP because they ARE real benefits. I don't really know why anyone went with Microsoft products for the Internet anyway; They haven't had much to do with the development of it. Everyone seems to look down on PHP, maybe because most open source software is considered to be for people on a low budget who don't make enough turnover to afford what the "professionals" use. Well, in my mind, anyone who can't accept that PHP is better than ASP, and is probably one of the best languages for use on the Internet available.
Tyla, I really don't know what's happening here. We were all getting along here just fine until you showed up. Even Dav1d and I had patched things up (long story). Then, you show up and all hell breaks loose. Maybe you can't take it that you're not the only designer here. You're the best no question, but then it IS your job and you do have much more experience. Everything I have ever said to you has been in good fun. Note smiley faces? They're there for a reason. Don't take everything so seriously and lighten up! My last comment was in now way serious yet you go and jump on me! Jeez, take a chill pill and learn to live with it. I'm here, I'm here to stay. Like it or leave it, but if you do decide to stay here (which I would really like) then just get along! Everyone else does, I'm sure you can too.
Tyla wrote:
None of you would be interested
> in my other Mentor... Mr Jakob Neilsen so I wont bother with him unless anyone
> asks.
Ahhhh, I spit on that man> he wouldn't know a good website if it jumped up and danced on his desktop singing "happy days are hear again"
Apart from that though, you made great point in there ;)
None of you would be interested
> in my other Mentor... Mr Jakob Neilsen so I wont bother with him unless anyone
> asks.
Ahhhh, I spit on that man> he wouldn't know a good website if it jumped up and danced on his desktop singing "happy days are hear again"
Apart from that though, you made great point in there ;)
Turbonutter wrote:
> Ah, but I remember a certain stressed designer once telling me that stats mean
> nothing, and that a certain stressed designer's clients would scream if he told
> them that "it's OK according to my stats" :-)
Assuming that you're reffering to myself... Stats are important especially when it comes to future development and advancement, but only if they are based on sensible figures... Hit's don't count, but Unique visitors do, Browsers do, but not if they are all based on Mozilla...
Wiuth regards to "Client's Screaming" this was regarding which browsers to use and which tech to adopt in a previous post. The point was made to someone who said that thay code in IE and IE alone as "their" stats justified it and my response was that this was a stupid approach to bilding a site and went against the principles of what the internet stands for!...
To be honest TN, I can't be @rsed to argue with you anymore ans it's obvious that your quite narrowminded and arrogant to others unless it involves yourself or PHP... This forum is for discussion and ideas not to come in here and spam with arguments you cannot justify...
Now when you have something intelligent to say I'll listen!! Till then, stich to you ameture sites and your PHP and go study some other stuff as apposed to your visions...
> Ah, but I remember a certain stressed designer once telling me that stats mean
> nothing, and that a certain stressed designer's clients would scream if he told
> them that "it's OK according to my stats" :-)
Assuming that you're reffering to myself... Stats are important especially when it comes to future development and advancement, but only if they are based on sensible figures... Hit's don't count, but Unique visitors do, Browsers do, but not if they are all based on Mozilla...
Wiuth regards to "Client's Screaming" this was regarding which browsers to use and which tech to adopt in a previous post. The point was made to someone who said that thay code in IE and IE alone as "their" stats justified it and my response was that this was a stupid approach to bilding a site and went against the principles of what the internet stands for!...
To be honest TN, I can't be @rsed to argue with you anymore ans it's obvious that your quite narrowminded and arrogant to others unless it involves yourself or PHP... This forum is for discussion and ideas not to come in here and spam with arguments you cannot justify...
Now when you have something intelligent to say I'll listen!! Till then, stich to you ameture sites and your PHP and go study some other stuff as apposed to your visions...
Tips:
If you use graphics alot, make them small so they don't take long to load.
Although it doesn't look good, a page with al;l text will load quickly.
To learn how to use HTML or JavaScript, e-mail me or go and see my tutor (Joe Burns, PhD) at http://htmlgoodies.earthweb.com
If you use graphics alot, make them small so they don't take long to load.
Although it doesn't look good, a page with al;l text will load quickly.
To learn how to use HTML or JavaScript, e-mail me or go and see my tutor (Joe Burns, PhD) at http://htmlgoodies.earthweb.com
Ah, but I remember a certain stressed designer once telling me that stats mean nothing, and that a certain stressed designer's clients would scream if he told them that "it's OK according to my stats" :-)
Some useful hints from My Mentor - Mr Jeffery Veen
1) Never, ever put a word in a graphic. Text is text. Graphics are graphics. Don't confuse them.
2) You have three seconds to convince a user not to use the Back button. Three seconds. So, get something on the screen immediately, and make it really interesting.
3) You have 30 seconds to load everything on screen. And that's probably a liberal estimate - it's actually more like 15 seconds. Be very fast.
4) How well does your site show up in search engines? Why don't you know? Find out, then tweak your meta content accordingly.
5) Users are completely uninterested in learning anything about how your site works. They came for your content. Give it to them - fast and simple.
None of you would be interested in my other Mentor... Mr Jakob Neilsen so I wont bother with him unless anyone asks.
1) Never, ever put a word in a graphic. Text is text. Graphics are graphics. Don't confuse them.
2) You have three seconds to convince a user not to use the Back button. Three seconds. So, get something on the screen immediately, and make it really interesting.
3) You have 30 seconds to load everything on screen. And that's probably a liberal estimate - it's actually more like 15 seconds. Be very fast.
4) How well does your site show up in search engines? Why don't you know? Find out, then tweak your meta content accordingly.
5) Users are completely uninterested in learning anything about how your site works. They came for your content. Give it to them - fast and simple.
None of you would be interested in my other Mentor... Mr Jakob Neilsen so I wont bother with him unless anyone asks.
http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/reference/browser_chart/
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