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I want somewhere to stick my thoughts on the Formula 1 season as it progresses so I'm going to do that here. Feel free to join me if you want.
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El Viking wrote:
what about the "Illegal"
> Ferrari that won in Australia, for example?
It wasn't illegal. That's why the rule governing that aspect was actually re-written after the race. As far as I remember as well, Ferrari weren't the only ones to have to re-design after that.
what about the "Illegal"
> Ferrari that won in Australia, for example?
It wasn't illegal. That's why the rule governing that aspect was actually re-written after the race. As far as I remember as well, Ferrari weren't the only ones to have to re-design after that.
Well, well done Kimi. Wish I'd had a couple of quid on him before the weekend, 10/1 in some places.
I hope this appeal get's thrown out. Mainly because if Hamilton won the championship like this, I feel it forever would be tainted somehow. In a season almost over shadowed by off-track gubbins the last 3 races were so entertaining it was all forgotten. Almost. And now this happens.
Another reason I hope the FIA are forced to throw it out is because of some comments made by Ted Kravitz in his column on ITFV F1, where he says this:
The temperatures were taken from Formula One Management data that is shown on page three of the circuit’s timing screens.But in Brazil, these temperature readings were, to put it mildly, unscientific.
Either the air temperature probe was in the sun (air temp should always be taken from the shade) or it was not calibrated correctly. This is supported by the readings of the track temperature. When the race started, the FOM screens showed the track temperature as 62 degrees. That would’ve melted even my trusty Dr Martens boots. Bridgestone measured the track temp at a more usual 48 degrees.
The weather experts from Meteo France, who sit in a small container within the circuit measuring the weather to internationally accepted standards and accuracy, said the ambient temperature (in the shade) never exceeded 34 degrees.
So if the FIA can't even agree with the temperature with their own partners, it's a sorry state of affairs.
I currently have a dim view of the FIA after this season. After punishing McLaren so heavily for the actions of a rogue employee, how did Ferrari escape some sort of punishment, as one of their employees allowed McLaren to get the data in the first place.
I also think the FIA have meddled far too much this season, with the top example springing to mind being Hungary qualifying. If Alonso had held up another team, then he should be punished, but when it's between team mates, let the team sort it out. We (the fans - who pay for F1, incidentally) we robbed of would could have been a fantastic race between Alonso & Hamilton sharing the front row.
Onto McLaren themselves, they did really well with this whole equality between drivers. They both won the same number of races & they both scored the same number of points. You can't get any more equal than that. It's just a shame (for them) that Kimi got 1 point more...
I hope this appeal get's thrown out. Mainly because if Hamilton won the championship like this, I feel it forever would be tainted somehow. In a season almost over shadowed by off-track gubbins the last 3 races were so entertaining it was all forgotten. Almost. And now this happens.
Another reason I hope the FIA are forced to throw it out is because of some comments made by Ted Kravitz in his column on ITFV F1, where he says this:
The temperatures were taken from Formula One Management data that is shown on page three of the circuit’s timing screens.But in Brazil, these temperature readings were, to put it mildly, unscientific.
Either the air temperature probe was in the sun (air temp should always be taken from the shade) or it was not calibrated correctly. This is supported by the readings of the track temperature. When the race started, the FOM screens showed the track temperature as 62 degrees. That would’ve melted even my trusty Dr Martens boots. Bridgestone measured the track temp at a more usual 48 degrees.
The weather experts from Meteo France, who sit in a small container within the circuit measuring the weather to internationally accepted standards and accuracy, said the ambient temperature (in the shade) never exceeded 34 degrees.
So if the FIA can't even agree with the temperature with their own partners, it's a sorry state of affairs.
I currently have a dim view of the FIA after this season. After punishing McLaren so heavily for the actions of a rogue employee, how did Ferrari escape some sort of punishment, as one of their employees allowed McLaren to get the data in the first place.
I also think the FIA have meddled far too much this season, with the top example springing to mind being Hungary qualifying. If Alonso had held up another team, then he should be punished, but when it's between team mates, let the team sort it out. We (the fans - who pay for F1, incidentally) we robbed of would could have been a fantastic race between Alonso & Hamilton sharing the front row.
Onto McLaren themselves, they did really well with this whole equality between drivers. They both won the same number of races & they both scored the same number of points. You can't get any more equal than that. It's just a shame (for them) that Kimi got 1 point more...
Night races are great. I went to see a BTCC event when they were doing night races and it was brilliant. It's a shame they don't do them anymore. I'm assuming it will be well floodlit as I can't see them taken a chance since they've been banging the safety drum for a while.
The FIA say there will be a 10 year freeze on engines and that's fine but I think change will happen before the 10 years are up. Of course, this may change again because the teams, from what I've heard, are trying to come up with alternatives because they don't want to be restricted like this.
The FIA say there will be a 10 year freeze on engines and that's fine but I think change will happen before the 10 years are up. Of course, this may change again because the teams, from what I've heard, are trying to come up with alternatives because they don't want to be restricted like this.
F1 changes for next season
A night race should be interesting. More restrictions on car development coming though. F1 is turning into GP2.
A night race should be interesting. More restrictions on car development coming though. F1 is turning into GP2.
Agreed, it's in the name of justice largely; Hamilton wants to win championships outright, and McLaren haven't exactly got a fair deal this season.
The season already is a mockery. I think McLaren are right here. You have to stop teams taking advantage of the rules in this case, particularly if there is a performance advantage, however slight.
I think Raikkonen's title is safe and I don't think McLaren want the title this way either. They are appealing out of principle.
I think Raikkonen's title is safe and I don't think McLaren want the title this way either. They are appealing out of principle.
I think punishing Ferrari at this point would make a complete mockery of the entire season. To be honest though, you reap what you sow. All through this season there has been some questionable rule-breaking going unpunished.
I'm surprised that only McLaren are appealing. A DQ would have benefitted other teams. Hopefully some other teams will get involved.
McLaren will be appealing, and I think that's more than justiifed; it's not just the Drivers' title at stake, but the fact that other teams have seemingly been able to flout regulations this season; what about the "Illegal" Ferrari that won in Australia, for example?
The issue is whether Williams and BMW-Sauber gained much in terms of performance from the fuel temperatures. Surely, it wouldn't be enough for Hamilton to have gained on them before the end of the race, but the simple matter is that rules were broken, and even if proof is difficult to come by or substantiate, the fact it exists shows that action needs to be taken.
Fisichella gained a race win after an appeal post-Brazilian Grand Prix last year, so results can of course be amended in such a way, and fuel irregularities have seen exclusions before, so quite simply; why not at least pursue enquiries? There's been enough bloody arbitration and arguing this year, let's see some justice come of it.
The issue is whether Williams and BMW-Sauber gained much in terms of performance from the fuel temperatures. Surely, it wouldn't be enough for Hamilton to have gained on them before the end of the race, but the simple matter is that rules were broken, and even if proof is difficult to come by or substantiate, the fact it exists shows that action needs to be taken.
Fisichella gained a race win after an appeal post-Brazilian Grand Prix last year, so results can of course be amended in such a way, and fuel irregularities have seen exclusions before, so quite simply; why not at least pursue enquiries? There's been enough bloody arbitration and arguing this year, let's see some justice come of it.
Well, it was a dramatic race. Hamilton made a mistake at the start after slipping to 4th but that mistake was recoverable. The gearbox cutting out was just bad luck. It left him a little too much to do.
The problem I'm having is the decision after the race was over. Don't get me wrong, Raikkonen as World Champion is perfectly fine by me as I don't play favourites. It's the precedent that the FIA are setting by allowing BMW and Williams to keep their positions.
For those unaware, the BMW and Williams cars were found to have put in their cars fuel that below the allowed 10 degrees of the ambient temperature. It was about 36 degrees in Brazil so all fuel must be at 26 or above.
By putting in their cars this lower temperature fuel at ALL of their stops (except Nakajima), they would get more fuel in their car in a quicker time and get a performance advantage, as much as 5-10bhp.
The FIA make everyone aware of this and as everyone should be aware, the results are not official until the FIA has run the scrutineering checks on the cars, making Raikkonen's title unofficial.
The FIA deliberate about the decision to take. They had a few things to go on. 1995 - Coulthard and Schumacher both were DQ'd only to get their drivers points back and the constructors points taken away. 1997 - Hakkinen DQ'd for fuel irregularities. There are others but you get the picture.
The thing is, the BMW and Williams will have had an advantage, both in filling the cars and performance gain for the 3 laps that it roughly takes for the fuel to get to the normal temperature.
The FIA decide to wimp out and give no penalty whatsoever. That is a dangerous precedent to set because teams may start to flout this rule in the future and seeing as no penalty was given, use that to their advantage.
It just seems that the FIA have made the wrong decision. I wouldn't want Hamilton to win the title this way but rules are there to stop teams gaining performance over others. I'm sure people will see it as trivial but their advantage could have been enough to deny points to someone else or allow to keep up or pull away. The teams that could have benefitted by this were Red Bull, Toyota and Super Aguri.
I'd personally like to see an appeal, even if they had their constructors championship points removed but then that isn't really helping the smaller teams like Super Aguri.
It's even more important on a track like Brazil because there is not a lot of difference in the times. I was watching the timing screens and I saw Nakajima post a suspiciously quick personal best sectors after the first stop, Rosberg put in a best of anyone sector and Kubica drove past Alonso very easily (although Alonso was pretty rubbish all race) and Heidfeld was quick then slow a lot of the race.
In a way, McLaren should be seething. They've had to contend with a lot of courtroom drama that has always seemed to go against them and could still come back to haunt them in 2008 and yet when a glimmer of hope (although I'd call it a good case) of something going their way off the track, the FIA shy away from the big decision.
They broke the rules = action must be taken. McLaren got done heavily and there was no smoking gun in that case. It would have been horrible if Raikkonen had not won the title but as I said, THE RESULTS WEREN'T OFFICIAL!
EDIT: And the latest news suggests that because they couldn't prove that the fuel on the car was of the said temperatures and that the ambient temperature may have been wrong resulted in the no penalty decision.
They are basically saying lack of evidence and what is essentially an unenforcable rule. Way to go FIA! I suggest you have a look in your rule book for 2008 because you've been made to look very stupid.
The problem I'm having is the decision after the race was over. Don't get me wrong, Raikkonen as World Champion is perfectly fine by me as I don't play favourites. It's the precedent that the FIA are setting by allowing BMW and Williams to keep their positions.
For those unaware, the BMW and Williams cars were found to have put in their cars fuel that below the allowed 10 degrees of the ambient temperature. It was about 36 degrees in Brazil so all fuel must be at 26 or above.
By putting in their cars this lower temperature fuel at ALL of their stops (except Nakajima), they would get more fuel in their car in a quicker time and get a performance advantage, as much as 5-10bhp.
The FIA make everyone aware of this and as everyone should be aware, the results are not official until the FIA has run the scrutineering checks on the cars, making Raikkonen's title unofficial.
The FIA deliberate about the decision to take. They had a few things to go on. 1995 - Coulthard and Schumacher both were DQ'd only to get their drivers points back and the constructors points taken away. 1997 - Hakkinen DQ'd for fuel irregularities. There are others but you get the picture.
The thing is, the BMW and Williams will have had an advantage, both in filling the cars and performance gain for the 3 laps that it roughly takes for the fuel to get to the normal temperature.
The FIA decide to wimp out and give no penalty whatsoever. That is a dangerous precedent to set because teams may start to flout this rule in the future and seeing as no penalty was given, use that to their advantage.
It just seems that the FIA have made the wrong decision. I wouldn't want Hamilton to win the title this way but rules are there to stop teams gaining performance over others. I'm sure people will see it as trivial but their advantage could have been enough to deny points to someone else or allow to keep up or pull away. The teams that could have benefitted by this were Red Bull, Toyota and Super Aguri.
I'd personally like to see an appeal, even if they had their constructors championship points removed but then that isn't really helping the smaller teams like Super Aguri.
It's even more important on a track like Brazil because there is not a lot of difference in the times. I was watching the timing screens and I saw Nakajima post a suspiciously quick personal best sectors after the first stop, Rosberg put in a best of anyone sector and Kubica drove past Alonso very easily (although Alonso was pretty rubbish all race) and Heidfeld was quick then slow a lot of the race.
In a way, McLaren should be seething. They've had to contend with a lot of courtroom drama that has always seemed to go against them and could still come back to haunt them in 2008 and yet when a glimmer of hope (although I'd call it a good case) of something going their way off the track, the FIA shy away from the big decision.
They broke the rules = action must be taken. McLaren got done heavily and there was no smoking gun in that case. It would have been horrible if Raikkonen had not won the title but as I said, THE RESULTS WEREN'T OFFICIAL!
EDIT: And the latest news suggests that because they couldn't prove that the fuel on the car was of the said temperatures and that the ambient temperature may have been wrong resulted in the no penalty decision.
They are basically saying lack of evidence and what is essentially an unenforcable rule. Way to go FIA! I suggest you have a look in your rule book for 2008 because you've been made to look very stupid.
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