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Recently, Religion has come up in a number of discussions and it would be good to discuss them. EVERYONE has a belief. This topic has some effect in a lot of lifes.
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cooldogs wrote:
> You also said that the word Devil, is not mentioned in the old
> testement. That is true. But in Revelation 12 and verse 7 it calls
> the devil Satan and Devil. actually the word Devil appears 59 times
> in the New Testement. The word Satan appears 92 times in the bible,
> 31 times in the old testement and the rest in the new testement.
> therefore, it leads me to belive that the Isrealites did have a
> belief in the Devil and therefore he does exist.
The Old testament was written by the Israelistes. The texts you mentioned (Devil) are all New Testament, compliled by gentiles in the centuries after Jesus' death. These beliefs had no roots in older scripture and even the earliest New Testament accounts were created at least decades after the crucifixtion.
Satan may be mentioned but this has roots in an ancient word whose meaning I believe is something akin the the advocate. It is not clear whether this is supposed to be an entity in its own right. In fact, the idea of a supernatural force in opposition to the one true god woud apear blasphemous.
> You also said that the word Devil, is not mentioned in the old
> testement. That is true. But in Revelation 12 and verse 7 it calls
> the devil Satan and Devil. actually the word Devil appears 59 times
> in the New Testement. The word Satan appears 92 times in the bible,
> 31 times in the old testement and the rest in the new testement.
> therefore, it leads me to belive that the Isrealites did have a
> belief in the Devil and therefore he does exist.
The Old testament was written by the Israelistes. The texts you mentioned (Devil) are all New Testament, compliled by gentiles in the centuries after Jesus' death. These beliefs had no roots in older scripture and even the earliest New Testament accounts were created at least decades after the crucifixtion.
Satan may be mentioned but this has roots in an ancient word whose meaning I believe is something akin the the advocate. It is not clear whether this is supposed to be an entity in its own right. In fact, the idea of a supernatural force in opposition to the one true god woud apear blasphemous.
For a start I am not religious so I do not believe any of this. I was posting a well documented (and equally valid) theory of the Devil's role. This dualist theory of the universe has echoes in many world religions and is interesting in its own right.
Secondly, how can I worship the devil when the second half of my post points out that the devil was actually added into monotheistic mythology very late in its history and (like purgatory) was largely a result of scholarly debate by early Christians - not scripture. The bible is full of references which many people attribute to the devil, but you can read into it what you want - it is not explicit.
As for the statement it must be true because the bible says so... Christ! The bible was compiled from a number of tests over centuries. Many texts were left out for o god reason giving differing accounts. The texts that were included were done by committee (for example, at the council of Nicea under Roman rule) so cannot be considered infalible.
Furthermore, if you actually read Genesis carefully you will see that it was compiled from the writings of a number of authors and actually includes elements of a number of very separate and ancient creation myths. The start of theBible is a jewish text and was written long after the times of the founding fathers who made no attempt to claim that Yahweh created the earth.
Secondly, how can I worship the devil when the second half of my post points out that the devil was actually added into monotheistic mythology very late in its history and (like purgatory) was largely a result of scholarly debate by early Christians - not scripture. The bible is full of references which many people attribute to the devil, but you can read into it what you want - it is not explicit.
As for the statement it must be true because the bible says so... Christ! The bible was compiled from a number of tests over centuries. Many texts were left out for o god reason giving differing accounts. The texts that were included were done by committee (for example, at the council of Nicea under Roman rule) so cannot be considered infalible.
Furthermore, if you actually read Genesis carefully you will see that it was compiled from the writings of a number of authors and actually includes elements of a number of very separate and ancient creation myths. The start of theBible is a jewish text and was written long after the times of the founding fathers who made no attempt to claim that Yahweh created the earth.
You also said that the word Devil, is not mentioned in the old testement. That is true. But in Revelation 12 and verse 7 it calls the devil Satan and Devil. actually the word Devil appears 59 times in the New Testement. The word Satan appears 92 times in the bible, 31 times in the old testement and the rest in the new testement. therefore, it leads me to belive that the Isrealites did have a belief in the Devil and therefore he does exist.
cooldogs wrote:
> Sandman, you obviously have never read your bible, the first verse
> of the bible says, "In the beginning, God created the heavens
> and the earth" so how can you say that the devil created the
> earth, unless you worship the devil!
That is the stupidest response I have ever heard!
> Sandman, you obviously have never read your bible, the first verse
> of the bible says, "In the beginning, God created the heavens
> and the earth" so how can you say that the devil created the
> earth, unless you worship the devil!
That is the stupidest response I have ever heard!
Ant wrote:
> I think Veron said that the Devil is a servant of God.
In the
> Bible (which is what I believe in,) it says that the Devil is a
> fallen angel, who wanted to be as powerful as God (something like
> that, anyway,) and sorted started his own little thing in
> Hell.
The Devil's mission is to stop people being Christians.
> Once we are, he leaves us alone most of the time, occasionally
> tempting us, trying to make us feel bad when we've done it.
He
> mostly tempts non-christians, hoping that they won't become one of
> God's followers.
The Devil is very dangerous. A couple of nights
> before I was baptised I had a really bad night. I felt really bad
> about myself, and thought I was hopeless at everything. It really
> got me down, and I believe this was the Devil's final attempt to
> stop me getting baptised.
There is a long standing belief which has surfaced frequently throughout Christian, Jewish and Islamic writings that the 'Devil' actually created man and the earth. The idea is that the soul is the part of man created by God and is is our goal to transcend the base physical world (which is filled with sin and chaos and so could not be divine) to rejoin God (an abstract peaceful entity rather than a father figure - so that when you die you do not so much go to a place 'heaven' but your spirit joins that of the divine - a concept similar to nirvana).
It is also worth noting that the devil does not appear at all in the old testement and rarely mentioned before centuries had passed since te death of Jesus. The Devil was largely a creation by later gentile Christians. Indeed, most of the other names attributed to the devil in the Old Testament (e.g. Baal, Marduk) were simply other tribal gods who the early jews saw as rivals to their warlike god Yahweh. This wa a time before the Jews decided that Yahweh was the only god. The myths of creation weren't even attributed to Yahweh (God) in these early days.
> I think Veron said that the Devil is a servant of God.
In the
> Bible (which is what I believe in,) it says that the Devil is a
> fallen angel, who wanted to be as powerful as God (something like
> that, anyway,) and sorted started his own little thing in
> Hell.
The Devil's mission is to stop people being Christians.
> Once we are, he leaves us alone most of the time, occasionally
> tempting us, trying to make us feel bad when we've done it.
He
> mostly tempts non-christians, hoping that they won't become one of
> God's followers.
The Devil is very dangerous. A couple of nights
> before I was baptised I had a really bad night. I felt really bad
> about myself, and thought I was hopeless at everything. It really
> got me down, and I believe this was the Devil's final attempt to
> stop me getting baptised.
There is a long standing belief which has surfaced frequently throughout Christian, Jewish and Islamic writings that the 'Devil' actually created man and the earth. The idea is that the soul is the part of man created by God and is is our goal to transcend the base physical world (which is filled with sin and chaos and so could not be divine) to rejoin God (an abstract peaceful entity rather than a father figure - so that when you die you do not so much go to a place 'heaven' but your spirit joins that of the divine - a concept similar to nirvana).
It is also worth noting that the devil does not appear at all in the old testement and rarely mentioned before centuries had passed since te death of Jesus. The Devil was largely a creation by later gentile Christians. Indeed, most of the other names attributed to the devil in the Old Testament (e.g. Baal, Marduk) were simply other tribal gods who the early jews saw as rivals to their warlike god Yahweh. This wa a time before the Jews decided that Yahweh was the only god. The myths of creation weren't even attributed to Yahweh (God) in these early days.
sandman wrote:
Please tell us exactly where in the Bible it says
> the bit about about the 144,000 chosen men and jesus as king. I may
> not know my bible inside out but it sounds rather fanciful to me.
It is not fanciful at all. It is in revelation (the last book of the bible) chapter 14 and verse 1. There it is a vision that the Apostle John had, and it is about the heavens that he is talking about and how these 144,000 are ruling with the lamb (Jesus). And in the same book, but chapter 7 and verse 4. where it talks about them coming from "every tribe" or all the nations on the earth.
Please tell us exactly where in the Bible it says
> the bit about about the 144,000 chosen men and jesus as king. I may
> not know my bible inside out but it sounds rather fanciful to me.
It is not fanciful at all. It is in revelation (the last book of the bible) chapter 14 and verse 1. There it is a vision that the Apostle John had, and it is about the heavens that he is talking about and how these 144,000 are ruling with the lamb (Jesus). And in the same book, but chapter 7 and verse 4. where it talks about them coming from "every tribe" or all the nations on the earth.
cooldogs wrote:
> Veron 4 wrote:
> Cooldogs, i can understand everything u have
> said. but the thing
> that baffles me is the thing about the
> 144,000 people ruling the
> world with God. have u any more
> information on this? i would like
> to hear about it
> please.
In the bible, it says that God has set up a kingdom, in
> heaven, to rule over the people on the earth. The Kingdom will have
> as it's King Jesus, and It's subjects will be those on earth
> faithfully worshiping God.
God has chosen 144,000 men who have
> served God Faithfully until their death, to be co-rulers with Jesus.
> This is a very good idea, because these men have been on earth and
> have suffered all the things that God's worshipers have suffered,
> and therefore they can rule perfectly, because they know what goes
> on, so to speak, on the earth.
The bible says that these men and
> women, when they die, will become perfect spirit creatures, and will
> live in heaven.
Nobody knows the reason why God has chosen this
> amount of people or why he has done this, because the bible says
> that God moves in mysterious ways, so we just have to wait for when
> he choses to explain this to us.
seeya
Please tell us exactly where in the Bible it says the bit about about the 144,000 chosen men and jesus as king. I may not know my bible inside out but it sounds rather fanciful to me.
> Veron 4 wrote:
> Cooldogs, i can understand everything u have
> said. but the thing
> that baffles me is the thing about the
> 144,000 people ruling the
> world with God. have u any more
> information on this? i would like
> to hear about it
> please.
In the bible, it says that God has set up a kingdom, in
> heaven, to rule over the people on the earth. The Kingdom will have
> as it's King Jesus, and It's subjects will be those on earth
> faithfully worshiping God.
God has chosen 144,000 men who have
> served God Faithfully until their death, to be co-rulers with Jesus.
> This is a very good idea, because these men have been on earth and
> have suffered all the things that God's worshipers have suffered,
> and therefore they can rule perfectly, because they know what goes
> on, so to speak, on the earth.
The bible says that these men and
> women, when they die, will become perfect spirit creatures, and will
> live in heaven.
Nobody knows the reason why God has chosen this
> amount of people or why he has done this, because the bible says
> that God moves in mysterious ways, so we just have to wait for when
> he choses to explain this to us.
seeya
Please tell us exactly where in the Bible it says the bit about about the 144,000 chosen men and jesus as king. I may not know my bible inside out but it sounds rather fanciful to me.
Veron 4 wrote:
> Cooldogs, i can understand everything u have said. but the thing
> that baffles me is the thing about the 144,000 people ruling the
> world with God. have u any more information on this? i would like
> to hear about it please.
In the bible, it says that God has set up a kingdom, in heaven, to rule over the people on the earth. The Kingdom will have as it's King Jesus, and It's subjects will be those on earth faithfully worshiping God.
God has chosen 144,000 men who have served God Faithfully until their death, to be co-rulers with Jesus. This is a very good idea, because these men have been on earth and have suffered all the things that God's worshipers have suffered, and therefore they can rule perfectly, because they know what goes on, so to speak, on the earth.
The bible says that these men and women, when they die, will become perfect spirit creatures, and will live in heaven.
Nobody knows the reason why God has chosen this amount of people or why he has done this, because the bible says that God moves in mysterious ways, so we just have to wait for when he choses to explain this to us.
seeya
> Cooldogs, i can understand everything u have said. but the thing
> that baffles me is the thing about the 144,000 people ruling the
> world with God. have u any more information on this? i would like
> to hear about it please.
In the bible, it says that God has set up a kingdom, in heaven, to rule over the people on the earth. The Kingdom will have as it's King Jesus, and It's subjects will be those on earth faithfully worshiping God.
God has chosen 144,000 men who have served God Faithfully until their death, to be co-rulers with Jesus. This is a very good idea, because these men have been on earth and have suffered all the things that God's worshipers have suffered, and therefore they can rule perfectly, because they know what goes on, so to speak, on the earth.
The bible says that these men and women, when they die, will become perfect spirit creatures, and will live in heaven.
Nobody knows the reason why God has chosen this amount of people or why he has done this, because the bible says that God moves in mysterious ways, so we just have to wait for when he choses to explain this to us.
seeya
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