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For some people it's straight forward, for some they're not bothered and those who can't decide (Agnostics), because I find that each of the topic need more info :
Science
1.The Big Bang Theory - a logical idea, but where does the all the matter in the univrse come from in the first place? Which is compressed in very small space and then exploded.
2.How did the first creatures came into existence out of a stable environment?
3.How did the Big Bang created resources on earth?
e.g metal ores, soil, etc
Religion
1.How did God appear in existence and then create life; perhaps something else created God?
2."God love and care" for people, yet if bad things happen to good people why doesn't God do something about it.
3.How does religion explains the end of life when the sun turns into a red giant and explodes creating a black hole and sucking anything near it?
Which leads me to conclude on my theory that:
God created Earth and all life, then let the people to decide whether they believe in God or not.
Assuming God is in existence, God thought about what life materials life would need and created them within Earth?
The end of life when the sun enlarges and the explodes, perhaps too many people sinned? God did not intend for life to carry on?
Any ideas?
Science
1.The Big Bang Theory - a logical idea, but where does the all the matter in the univrse come from in the first place? Which is compressed in very small space and then exploded.
2.How did the first creatures came into existence out of a stable environment?
3.How did the Big Bang created resources on earth?
e.g metal ores, soil, etc
Religion
1.How did God appear in existence and then create life; perhaps something else created God?
2."God love and care" for people, yet if bad things happen to good people why doesn't God do something about it.
3.How does religion explains the end of life when the sun turns into a red giant and explodes creating a black hole and sucking anything near it?
Which leads me to conclude on my theory that:
God created Earth and all life, then let the people to decide whether they believe in God or not.
Assuming God is in existence, God thought about what life materials life would need and created them within Earth?
The end of life when the sun enlarges and the explodes, perhaps too many people sinned? God did not intend for life to carry on?
Any ideas?
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Oh dear Munn.
Somone just spilt their coffee! Argh! He's got a flame-thrower!1
Even though I was completely knackered when I wrote that, it's still a very valid argument.
Even though there's no proof that they did exist, although a book written from over 20,000 sources which agree, there's no proof that they didn't exist.
It's hard to word it properly.
Even though there's no proof that they did exist, although a book written from over 20,000 sources which agree, there's no proof that they didn't exist.
It's hard to word it properly.
You can't prove anything, ever, which is why it's so retarded to go around screaming 'prove it!!1' at people.
Although there are such things as logic, reason, common sense, judgement and objective analysis, which can go a long way towards proving a lot of things - not conclusively in most cases, but still a long way towards.
Although there are such things as logic, reason, common sense, judgement and objective analysis, which can go a long way towards proving a lot of things - not conclusively in most cases, but still a long way towards.
Was human around same time as dinosaurs?
no
>
> Religion
> 1.How did God appear in existence and then create life; perhaps
> something else created God?
>
> 2."God love and care" for people, yet if bad things happen
> to good people why doesn't God do something about it.
>
> 3.How does religion explains the end of life when the sun turns into
> a red giant and explodes creating a black hole and sucking anything
> near it?
>
> Which leads me to conclude on my theory that:
> God created Earth and all life, then let the people to decide
> whether they believe in God or not.
> Assuming God is in existence, God thought about what life materials
> life would need and created them within Earth?
> The end of life when the sun enlarges and the explodes, perhaps too
> many people sinned? God did not intend for life to carry on?
>
> Any ideas?
I am a christian, I am awaiting the abuse - but to start off with I felt pretty much the same as you did 3 years ago, i felt that both were twaddle and didnt know where i was coming from. Then God proved himself to be real and i actively see him working intimately in my life and others - so without further adue *and i am no christian scholar or theologian* i will TRY explain some of this in my perspective.
1) We were created in Gods image. We were created to be eternal beings like God. Death seems so un natural doesnt it? It is harsh and painful - why? well not just because we form relationships and fear death but because we were created NOT to die.
Adam and Eve were in a perfect relationship with God - they could see him, talk to him. They were also in a perfect relationship with eachother. They didnt biccur and fight, feel pain or DIE before the fall because before Satan tempted and twisted Gods words so Adam and Eve actively ignored Gods only instruction
'you are free to eat from any tree in the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of knowledge and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die' (gen 2 v 17)
Now to me, ok God, fair dues - he didnt say 'you musnt eat of it because I DONT WANT YOU TO!' he said 'Because you will surely die'.
Then the serpant come along. he is even said as to be 'more crafty than any other of the wild animals' - he comes along, asks Eve to relay what God has asked of her and says 'you will not surely die' ...
Ok. Serpant created by God to right? Adam and Eve in paradise loving eachother loving God - all is well.. dont eat the tree guys ' your gonna die (Its God, you think you could trust him) but NO! Satan is using the age old trick in twisting Gods words and tempting us with what we do not have.
When Eve decided to take the fruit, Adam as her leader not to obey Gods word but to join her and then blame her of the wrong doings - hey actively followed Satan, turning against Gods perfect will from them and chose to die.
Due to this... we havent had the blessing of a perfect relationship with God at all. No one jumps out of the womb knowing God exists now, No one has been born into paradise since and EVERYONE dies. NO one is perfect - we are all born into sin. We are born - don't know quite why or how we are here.. and we die, so we feel if a God exists. HE must have been born and die.
Thing is.. before the giant screw up we understood God created us in his image, he created us because he adores us - not because he was bored. Not because he was lonely - he is God and he is perfect relationship in his trinitarian state! He created us for his master plan which is still in progress now! Everything we know, feel, walk on, touch, our bodies, our world.. EVERYTHING has been made by God but we are LIKE God! Because we are created and die - and dont quite understand him or his actions we feel he must be like us..
We are like him - but we arent God. We were made like him - because we were made by him. He hasnt been created, he is creator.
This is kinda my view of point one. Hope it helps a little,...i hope i havent been to herectical
:)
> Religion
> 1.How did God appear in existence and then create life; perhaps
> something else created God?
>
> 2."God love and care" for people, yet if bad things happen
> to good people why doesn't God do something about it.
>
> 3.How does religion explains the end of life when the sun turns into
> a red giant and explodes creating a black hole and sucking anything
> near it?
>
> Which leads me to conclude on my theory that:
> God created Earth and all life, then let the people to decide
> whether they believe in God or not.
> Assuming God is in existence, God thought about what life materials
> life would need and created them within Earth?
> The end of life when the sun enlarges and the explodes, perhaps too
> many people sinned? God did not intend for life to carry on?
>
> Any ideas?
I am a christian, I am awaiting the abuse - but to start off with I felt pretty much the same as you did 3 years ago, i felt that both were twaddle and didnt know where i was coming from. Then God proved himself to be real and i actively see him working intimately in my life and others - so without further adue *and i am no christian scholar or theologian* i will TRY explain some of this in my perspective.
1) We were created in Gods image. We were created to be eternal beings like God. Death seems so un natural doesnt it? It is harsh and painful - why? well not just because we form relationships and fear death but because we were created NOT to die.
Adam and Eve were in a perfect relationship with God - they could see him, talk to him. They were also in a perfect relationship with eachother. They didnt biccur and fight, feel pain or DIE before the fall because before Satan tempted and twisted Gods words so Adam and Eve actively ignored Gods only instruction
'you are free to eat from any tree in the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of knowledge and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die' (gen 2 v 17)
Now to me, ok God, fair dues - he didnt say 'you musnt eat of it because I DONT WANT YOU TO!' he said 'Because you will surely die'.
Then the serpant come along. he is even said as to be 'more crafty than any other of the wild animals' - he comes along, asks Eve to relay what God has asked of her and says 'you will not surely die' ...
Ok. Serpant created by God to right? Adam and Eve in paradise loving eachother loving God - all is well.. dont eat the tree guys ' your gonna die (Its God, you think you could trust him) but NO! Satan is using the age old trick in twisting Gods words and tempting us with what we do not have.
When Eve decided to take the fruit, Adam as her leader not to obey Gods word but to join her and then blame her of the wrong doings - hey actively followed Satan, turning against Gods perfect will from them and chose to die.
Due to this... we havent had the blessing of a perfect relationship with God at all. No one jumps out of the womb knowing God exists now, No one has been born into paradise since and EVERYONE dies. NO one is perfect - we are all born into sin. We are born - don't know quite why or how we are here.. and we die, so we feel if a God exists. HE must have been born and die.
Thing is.. before the giant screw up we understood God created us in his image, he created us because he adores us - not because he was bored. Not because he was lonely - he is God and he is perfect relationship in his trinitarian state! He created us for his master plan which is still in progress now! Everything we know, feel, walk on, touch, our bodies, our world.. EVERYTHING has been made by God but we are LIKE God! Because we are created and die - and dont quite understand him or his actions we feel he must be like us..
We are like him - but we arent God. We were made like him - because we were made by him. He hasnt been created, he is creator.
This is kinda my view of point one. Hope it helps a little,...i hope i havent been to herectical
:)
Munns right.
There's nothing conclusive on either side of this argument.
It's all "what if"s and "maybe"s.
Which is cool to discuss but seeing as any proper proof that they have it right, it's a bit silly trying to tell others what to believe.
If you notice, it's not the Christians who have been the aggressive "believe me or you're an idiot" muppets in this thread. Infact, the only one who's come close on this board is when Forest Fan told us, in the nicest way possible, that if he didn't believe what he said then we would all burn in hell.
I agree with everything your average Christian says except for judgement, especially the hardcore "two ways to live - Jesus and eternal life or rebellion and eternal damnation" - which doesn't make sense to me, but even then I wouldn't be so arrogant as to tell that they're stupid or wrong, just explain why it doesn't make sense to me.
After all, there's that slightest minute chance that I might be the one who's wrong... although I doubt it! ;-)
There's nothing conclusive on either side of this argument.
It's all "what if"s and "maybe"s.
Which is cool to discuss but seeing as any proper proof that they have it right, it's a bit silly trying to tell others what to believe.
If you notice, it's not the Christians who have been the aggressive "believe me or you're an idiot" muppets in this thread. Infact, the only one who's come close on this board is when Forest Fan told us, in the nicest way possible, that if he didn't believe what he said then we would all burn in hell.
I agree with everything your average Christian says except for judgement, especially the hardcore "two ways to live - Jesus and eternal life or rebellion and eternal damnation" - which doesn't make sense to me, but even then I wouldn't be so arrogant as to tell that they're stupid or wrong, just explain why it doesn't make sense to me.
After all, there's that slightest minute chance that I might be the one who's wrong... although I doubt it! ;-)
FinalFantasyFanatic wrote:
> Somone just spilt their coffee! Argh! He's got a flame-thrower!1
My nose hurts thanks to you :(
> Somone just spilt their coffee! Argh! He's got a flame-thrower!1
My nose hurts thanks to you :(
2."God love and care" for people, yet if bad things happen
> to good people why doesn't God do something about it.
This is such a hard thing to come to. But it is true that we look around, there is war, distruction, pain, suffering -
Before the fall there was trees, paradise, no death, no illness.. After the fall there was = death.
This is taken from a website that I think puts it better than my 'wooo duuuude yo JC rocks' language :
'The sad truth is that, from the very beginning, men and women everywhere have rejected God by doing things their own way. We all do this. We don’t like someone telling us what to do or how to live—least of all God—and so we rebel against him in lots of different ways. We ignore him and just get on with our own lives; or we disobey his instructions for living in his world; or we shake our puny fists in his face and tell him to get lost.
How ever we do it, we are all rebels, because we don’t live God’s way. We prefer to follow our own desires, and to run things our own way, without God. This rebellious, self-sufficient attitude is what the Bible calls ‘sin’.
The trouble is, in rejecting God we make a mess not only of our own lives, but of our society and the world. The whole world is full of people bent on doing what suits them, and not following God’s ways. We all act like little gods, with our own crowns, competing with one another. The result is misery. The suffering and injustice that we see around us all go back to our basic rebellion against God.
By rebelling against God, we’ve made a terrible mess of things. The question is: what will God do about it?'
...
God cares enough about humanity to take our rebellion seriously. He calls us to account for our actions, because it matters to him that we treat him, and other people, so poorly. In other words, he won’t let the rebellion go on forever.
The sentence God passes against us is entirely just, because he gives us exactly what we ask for. In rebelling against God, we are saying to him, “Go away. I don’t want you telling me what to do. Leave me alone.” And this is precisely what God does. His judgement on rebels is to withdraw from them, to cut them off from himself—permanently. But since God is the source of life and all good things, being cut off from him means death and hell. God’s judgement against rebels is an everlasting, God-less death.
This is a terrible thing, to fall under the sentence of God’s judgement. It is a prospect we all face, since we are all guilty of rebelling against God.
Is that it then? Are we all destined for death and everlasting ruin? If not for God’s own miraculous intervention, we would be.
> to good people why doesn't God do something about it.
This is such a hard thing to come to. But it is true that we look around, there is war, distruction, pain, suffering -
Before the fall there was trees, paradise, no death, no illness.. After the fall there was = death.
This is taken from a website that I think puts it better than my 'wooo duuuude yo JC rocks' language :
'The sad truth is that, from the very beginning, men and women everywhere have rejected God by doing things their own way. We all do this. We don’t like someone telling us what to do or how to live—least of all God—and so we rebel against him in lots of different ways. We ignore him and just get on with our own lives; or we disobey his instructions for living in his world; or we shake our puny fists in his face and tell him to get lost.
How ever we do it, we are all rebels, because we don’t live God’s way. We prefer to follow our own desires, and to run things our own way, without God. This rebellious, self-sufficient attitude is what the Bible calls ‘sin’.
The trouble is, in rejecting God we make a mess not only of our own lives, but of our society and the world. The whole world is full of people bent on doing what suits them, and not following God’s ways. We all act like little gods, with our own crowns, competing with one another. The result is misery. The suffering and injustice that we see around us all go back to our basic rebellion against God.
By rebelling against God, we’ve made a terrible mess of things. The question is: what will God do about it?'
...
God cares enough about humanity to take our rebellion seriously. He calls us to account for our actions, because it matters to him that we treat him, and other people, so poorly. In other words, he won’t let the rebellion go on forever.
The sentence God passes against us is entirely just, because he gives us exactly what we ask for. In rebelling against God, we are saying to him, “Go away. I don’t want you telling me what to do. Leave me alone.” And this is precisely what God does. His judgement on rebels is to withdraw from them, to cut them off from himself—permanently. But since God is the source of life and all good things, being cut off from him means death and hell. God’s judgement against rebels is an everlasting, God-less death.
This is a terrible thing, to fall under the sentence of God’s judgement. It is a prospect we all face, since we are all guilty of rebelling against God.
Is that it then? Are we all destined for death and everlasting ruin? If not for God’s own miraculous intervention, we would be.
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