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For some people it's straight forward, for some they're not bothered and those who can't decide (Agnostics), because I find that each of the topic need more info :
Science
1.The Big Bang Theory - a logical idea, but where does the all the matter in the univrse come from in the first place? Which is compressed in very small space and then exploded.
2.How did the first creatures came into existence out of a stable environment?
3.How did the Big Bang created resources on earth?
e.g metal ores, soil, etc
Religion
1.How did God appear in existence and then create life; perhaps something else created God?
2."God love and care" for people, yet if bad things happen to good people why doesn't God do something about it.
3.How does religion explains the end of life when the sun turns into a red giant and explodes creating a black hole and sucking anything near it?
Which leads me to conclude on my theory that:
God created Earth and all life, then let the people to decide whether they believe in God or not.
Assuming God is in existence, God thought about what life materials life would need and created them within Earth?
The end of life when the sun enlarges and the explodes, perhaps too many people sinned? God did not intend for life to carry on?
Any ideas?
Science
1.The Big Bang Theory - a logical idea, but where does the all the matter in the univrse come from in the first place? Which is compressed in very small space and then exploded.
2.How did the first creatures came into existence out of a stable environment?
3.How did the Big Bang created resources on earth?
e.g metal ores, soil, etc
Religion
1.How did God appear in existence and then create life; perhaps something else created God?
2."God love and care" for people, yet if bad things happen to good people why doesn't God do something about it.
3.How does religion explains the end of life when the sun turns into a red giant and explodes creating a black hole and sucking anything near it?
Which leads me to conclude on my theory that:
God created Earth and all life, then let the people to decide whether they believe in God or not.
Assuming God is in existence, God thought about what life materials life would need and created them within Earth?
The end of life when the sun enlarges and the explodes, perhaps too many people sinned? God did not intend for life to carry on?
Any ideas?
Page:
Strafio wrote:
> Memorandum! wrote:
> you see, this p**ses me off. God might be our almighty creator and
> all, but if all he wants to do is lay down a set of rules to dictate
> what we can and can't do for fear of ending up dead or in eternal
> torment, he doesn't sound all-loving to me. He sounds like...a
> dictator.
...Did he set and lay down loads of rules? or did he not just say 'dont eat from that one tree out of the whole of heavenly eden.. coz your gonna die?'
It was satan that TWISTED Gods words and made it seem that they were being hard done by and that God was putting down the 'rules'
>
> Humans get punished for not following God's orders. Why?
> What does he get out of it?
> Is he so intolerant of other people's views and ambitions that he
> has
> to inflict suffering on anyone who challenges him? Nice. He sounds
> a
> bit like Hitler.
Sin has to be punished, he HATES sin, not the sinner. Thats why he died for Sin - so the sinner could rule over it instead of be ruled by it. He is not intolerant of our wants and needs... Memo he made us with desires, loves, ambitions, talents, he just wants to use these things for his Good! AND HIS GOOD IS ALSO OUR GOOD! He is not all up for inflicting suffering on anyone who challenges him.. he is trying to shout to that person 'SATAN IS LYING TO YOU - HE IS SAYING WHAT HE WANTS IS BETTER - HE IS SAYING THAT THIS WORLD IS WORTH MORE THAN WORLD TO COME!' If we want to settle for our goals, our careers - this fallen world which is dying, full of war, pain - then we are forcing him from us and doing an Adam and Eve, we are gonna be stuck in Sin - and slaves to ourselves and this world. That isnt freedom. That isnt gettin us to heaven.
> Memorandum! wrote:
> you see, this p**ses me off. God might be our almighty creator and
> all, but if all he wants to do is lay down a set of rules to dictate
> what we can and can't do for fear of ending up dead or in eternal
> torment, he doesn't sound all-loving to me. He sounds like...a
> dictator.
...Did he set and lay down loads of rules? or did he not just say 'dont eat from that one tree out of the whole of heavenly eden.. coz your gonna die?'
It was satan that TWISTED Gods words and made it seem that they were being hard done by and that God was putting down the 'rules'
>
> Humans get punished for not following God's orders. Why?
> What does he get out of it?
> Is he so intolerant of other people's views and ambitions that he
> has
> to inflict suffering on anyone who challenges him? Nice. He sounds
> a
> bit like Hitler.
Sin has to be punished, he HATES sin, not the sinner. Thats why he died for Sin - so the sinner could rule over it instead of be ruled by it. He is not intolerant of our wants and needs... Memo he made us with desires, loves, ambitions, talents, he just wants to use these things for his Good! AND HIS GOOD IS ALSO OUR GOOD! He is not all up for inflicting suffering on anyone who challenges him.. he is trying to shout to that person 'SATAN IS LYING TO YOU - HE IS SAYING WHAT HE WANTS IS BETTER - HE IS SAYING THAT THIS WORLD IS WORTH MORE THAN WORLD TO COME!' If we want to settle for our goals, our careers - this fallen world which is dying, full of war, pain - then we are forcing him from us and doing an Adam and Eve, we are gonna be stuck in Sin - and slaves to ourselves and this world. That isnt freedom. That isnt gettin us to heaven.
I don't mind talking religious with people as long as they don't force it on me or talk to me as if 'I'm just not getting it'.
" But God LOVES you, can't you see. He hates the sins etc "
" He is your God love, so shut up "
" But God LOVES you, can't you see. He hates the sins etc "
" He is your God love, so shut up "
Lil Ginge wrote:
> They did - so that they wouldnt DIE! But they ignored it - free will
So they understood that the tree would bring them death and suffering, and understood what that meant for them, understanding why God didn't want them to eat from it, but believed a snake over him?
If they had truly understood why God didn't want them to eat from the tree, do you think they would've chosen not to eat from it?
I compare it to the relation of a mother and a child.
When they are extremely small and obedient, it seems like the perfect relationship as they have nothing to argue about, and if the child could be frozen in that form - not grow - then the relationship would remain "perfect".
But the mother wants the child to grow, and in doing so it will learn to try things it's own way, disobey the mother which'll cause conflict.
But through this conflict, the child'll end up getting closer to mum, through their own understanding... rather than just being naturally obedient. :-)
> To be honest, i am not sure why the tree was created. I think it was
> because God wants us to love him, follow him out of OUR will not his.
> To exercise our will for Good.. I struggle with this.
I think you've got it right there, so I think that God expected us, even wanted us to eat from that tree at some point or other, because it was our way to grow. I think suffering is there to be overcome. That's the challenge God sets us.
> But i know God,
> and I know he isnt a God of suffering and I trust him.. he is God and
> I am not
Yeah. The same way I trust that the idea that there's this judgement where all people who aren't Christians suffer eternal torment, that just can't be right...
> They did - so that they wouldnt DIE! But they ignored it - free will
So they understood that the tree would bring them death and suffering, and understood what that meant for them, understanding why God didn't want them to eat from it, but believed a snake over him?
If they had truly understood why God didn't want them to eat from the tree, do you think they would've chosen not to eat from it?
I compare it to the relation of a mother and a child.
When they are extremely small and obedient, it seems like the perfect relationship as they have nothing to argue about, and if the child could be frozen in that form - not grow - then the relationship would remain "perfect".
But the mother wants the child to grow, and in doing so it will learn to try things it's own way, disobey the mother which'll cause conflict.
But through this conflict, the child'll end up getting closer to mum, through their own understanding... rather than just being naturally obedient. :-)
> To be honest, i am not sure why the tree was created. I think it was
> because God wants us to love him, follow him out of OUR will not his.
> To exercise our will for Good.. I struggle with this.
I think you've got it right there, so I think that God expected us, even wanted us to eat from that tree at some point or other, because it was our way to grow. I think suffering is there to be overcome. That's the challenge God sets us.
> But i know God,
> and I know he isnt a God of suffering and I trust him.. he is God and
> I am not
Yeah. The same way I trust that the idea that there's this judgement where all people who aren't Christians suffer eternal torment, that just can't be right...
SHEEPY wrote:
> I don't mind talking religious with people as long as they don't force
> it on me or talk to me as if 'I'm just not getting it'.
>
> " But God LOVES you, can't you see. He hates the sins etc
> "
>
> " He is your God love, so shut up "
...in which case i apologise if i am forcing anything on anyone..
You believe what you believe, but i am explaining what I believe and backing up my theory with what i feel are mis conceptions..
i love it when things go deep
SOOOOO Farts ay?!
> I don't mind talking religious with people as long as they don't force
> it on me or talk to me as if 'I'm just not getting it'.
>
> " But God LOVES you, can't you see. He hates the sins etc
> "
>
> " He is your God love, so shut up "
...in which case i apologise if i am forcing anything on anyone..
You believe what you believe, but i am explaining what I believe and backing up my theory with what i feel are mis conceptions..
i love it when things go deep
SOOOOO Farts ay?!
Lil Ginge wrote:
>
> i love it when things go deep
SINNARRR!!!111
>
> i love it when things go deep
SINNARRR!!!111
I wasn't so much saying you were.
Just when people talk about God in that tense it really irritates me.
Just when people talk about God in that tense it really irritates me.
By making a tree that they weren't allowed to eat from and saying "don't eat from it or you will die", God was making a rule.
You can say "oh no! Satan!!!" but no matter how you look at it, the stipulation was always "do as I say, or be punished."
And I'd rather live my life following my own ambitions, doing what I want to do, not going "oops! better not do this in case I don't get into heaven!" In my opinion, that's far more selfish.
But that's your belief and I can understand it, I just have lots of problems regarding the nature of God and Christian beliefs. For example, we're not supposed to be judgemental of others yet God is free to judge as he pleases. God wanting us to follow his beliefs/rules = him asserting his superiority and selfishness.
You can say "oh no! Satan!!!" but no matter how you look at it, the stipulation was always "do as I say, or be punished."
And I'd rather live my life following my own ambitions, doing what I want to do, not going "oops! better not do this in case I don't get into heaven!" In my opinion, that's far more selfish.
But that's your belief and I can understand it, I just have lots of problems regarding the nature of God and Christian beliefs. For example, we're not supposed to be judgemental of others yet God is free to judge as he pleases. God wanting us to follow his beliefs/rules = him asserting his superiority and selfishness.
Memorandum! wrote:
> By making a tree that they weren't allowed to eat from and saying
> "don't eat from it or you will die", God was making a
> rule.
I think Ginge is trying to say that it wasn't a rule but a warning.
It's like I could warn you that drinking poison would kill you.
It does make you wonder why God made the try though.
> But that's your belief and I can understand it, I just have lots of
> problems regarding the nature of God and Christian beliefs. For
> example, we're not supposed to be judgemental of others yet God is
> free to judge as he pleases. God wanting us to follow his
> beliefs/rules = him asserting his superiority and selfishness.
I think that's the one flaw with modern Christianity.
Telling people that you're either "in or out" and either "saved or not" and saying they have to chose between "eternal life or eternal damnation" - it's too much of an ultimatum, too binary, and like Obi Wan Kanobi says "only Sith talk in absolutes!".
> By making a tree that they weren't allowed to eat from and saying
> "don't eat from it or you will die", God was making a
> rule.
I think Ginge is trying to say that it wasn't a rule but a warning.
It's like I could warn you that drinking poison would kill you.
It does make you wonder why God made the try though.
> But that's your belief and I can understand it, I just have lots of
> problems regarding the nature of God and Christian beliefs. For
> example, we're not supposed to be judgemental of others yet God is
> free to judge as he pleases. God wanting us to follow his
> beliefs/rules = him asserting his superiority and selfishness.
I think that's the one flaw with modern Christianity.
Telling people that you're either "in or out" and either "saved or not" and saying they have to chose between "eternal life or eternal damnation" - it's too much of an ultimatum, too binary, and like Obi Wan Kanobi says "only Sith talk in absolutes!".
Hedfix wrote:
> Lil Ginge wrote:
>
> i love it when things go deep
>
> SINNARRR!!!111
LOL
..
eww
> Lil Ginge wrote:
>
> i love it when things go deep
>
> SINNARRR!!!111
LOL
..
eww
Lil Ginge wrote:
> Sin has to be punished, he HATES sin
I'm with you except for this bit.
Why must Sin be punished?
Like you said, staying away from the tree was a warning of what the fruit would do to us. He just was trying to keep us from suffering the natural consequences.
Personally, I think that punishment goes against God's nature.
Maybe some people feel like they're being punished by God, like when a mum violently yanks he child off the road if he tries to run in front of a car (I mean, he's going to apologise for being "naughty", not realising that mum was just saving his life...).
But why would God punish?
> Sin has to be punished, he HATES sin
I'm with you except for this bit.
Why must Sin be punished?
Like you said, staying away from the tree was a warning of what the fruit would do to us. He just was trying to keep us from suffering the natural consequences.
Personally, I think that punishment goes against God's nature.
Maybe some people feel like they're being punished by God, like when a mum violently yanks he child off the road if he tries to run in front of a car (I mean, he's going to apologise for being "naughty", not realising that mum was just saving his life...).
But why would God punish?
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