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For some people it's straight forward, for some they're not bothered and those who can't decide (Agnostics), because I find that each of the topic need more info :
Science
1.The Big Bang Theory - a logical idea, but where does the all the matter in the univrse come from in the first place? Which is compressed in very small space and then exploded.
2.How did the first creatures came into existence out of a stable environment?
3.How did the Big Bang created resources on earth?
e.g metal ores, soil, etc
Religion
1.How did God appear in existence and then create life; perhaps something else created God?
2."God love and care" for people, yet if bad things happen to good people why doesn't God do something about it.
3.How does religion explains the end of life when the sun turns into a red giant and explodes creating a black hole and sucking anything near it?
Which leads me to conclude on my theory that:
God created Earth and all life, then let the people to decide whether they believe in God or not.
Assuming God is in existence, God thought about what life materials life would need and created them within Earth?
The end of life when the sun enlarges and the explodes, perhaps too many people sinned? God did not intend for life to carry on?
Any ideas?
Science
1.The Big Bang Theory - a logical idea, but where does the all the matter in the univrse come from in the first place? Which is compressed in very small space and then exploded.
2.How did the first creatures came into existence out of a stable environment?
3.How did the Big Bang created resources on earth?
e.g metal ores, soil, etc
Religion
1.How did God appear in existence and then create life; perhaps something else created God?
2."God love and care" for people, yet if bad things happen to good people why doesn't God do something about it.
3.How does religion explains the end of life when the sun turns into a red giant and explodes creating a black hole and sucking anything near it?
Which leads me to conclude on my theory that:
God created Earth and all life, then let the people to decide whether they believe in God or not.
Assuming God is in existence, God thought about what life materials life would need and created them within Earth?
The end of life when the sun enlarges and the explodes, perhaps too many people sinned? God did not intend for life to carry on?
Any ideas?
Page:
Lil Ginge wrote:
> They did - so that they wouldnt DIE! But they ignored it - free will
So they understood that the tree would bring them death and suffering, and understood what that meant for them, understanding why God didn't want them to eat from it, but believed a snake over him?
If they had truly understood why God didn't want them to eat from the tree, do you think they would've chosen not to eat from it?
I compare it to the relation of a mother and a child.
When they are extremely small and obedient, it seems like the perfect relationship as they have nothing to argue about, and if the child could be frozen in that form - not grow - then the relationship would remain "perfect".
But the mother wants the child to grow, and in doing so it will learn to try things it's own way, disobey the mother which'll cause conflict.
But through this conflict, the child'll end up getting closer to mum, through their own understanding... rather than just being naturally obedient. :-)
> To be honest, i am not sure why the tree was created. I think it was
> because God wants us to love him, follow him out of OUR will not his.
> To exercise our will for Good.. I struggle with this.
I think you've got it right there, so I think that God expected us, even wanted us to eat from that tree at some point or other, because it was our way to grow. I think suffering is there to be overcome. That's the challenge God sets us.
> But i know God,
> and I know he isnt a God of suffering and I trust him.. he is God and
> I am not
Yeah. The same way I trust that the idea that there's this judgement where all people who aren't Christians suffer eternal torment, that just can't be right...
> They did - so that they wouldnt DIE! But they ignored it - free will
So they understood that the tree would bring them death and suffering, and understood what that meant for them, understanding why God didn't want them to eat from it, but believed a snake over him?
If they had truly understood why God didn't want them to eat from the tree, do you think they would've chosen not to eat from it?
I compare it to the relation of a mother and a child.
When they are extremely small and obedient, it seems like the perfect relationship as they have nothing to argue about, and if the child could be frozen in that form - not grow - then the relationship would remain "perfect".
But the mother wants the child to grow, and in doing so it will learn to try things it's own way, disobey the mother which'll cause conflict.
But through this conflict, the child'll end up getting closer to mum, through their own understanding... rather than just being naturally obedient. :-)
> To be honest, i am not sure why the tree was created. I think it was
> because God wants us to love him, follow him out of OUR will not his.
> To exercise our will for Good.. I struggle with this.
I think you've got it right there, so I think that God expected us, even wanted us to eat from that tree at some point or other, because it was our way to grow. I think suffering is there to be overcome. That's the challenge God sets us.
> But i know God,
> and I know he isnt a God of suffering and I trust him.. he is God and
> I am not
Yeah. The same way I trust that the idea that there's this judgement where all people who aren't Christians suffer eternal torment, that just can't be right...
I don't mind talking religious with people as long as they don't force it on me or talk to me as if 'I'm just not getting it'.
" But God LOVES you, can't you see. He hates the sins etc "
" He is your God love, so shut up "
" But God LOVES you, can't you see. He hates the sins etc "
" He is your God love, so shut up "
Strafio wrote:
> Memorandum! wrote:
> you see, this p**ses me off. God might be our almighty creator and
> all, but if all he wants to do is lay down a set of rules to dictate
> what we can and can't do for fear of ending up dead or in eternal
> torment, he doesn't sound all-loving to me. He sounds like...a
> dictator.
...Did he set and lay down loads of rules? or did he not just say 'dont eat from that one tree out of the whole of heavenly eden.. coz your gonna die?'
It was satan that TWISTED Gods words and made it seem that they were being hard done by and that God was putting down the 'rules'
>
> Humans get punished for not following God's orders. Why?
> What does he get out of it?
> Is he so intolerant of other people's views and ambitions that he
> has
> to inflict suffering on anyone who challenges him? Nice. He sounds
> a
> bit like Hitler.
Sin has to be punished, he HATES sin, not the sinner. Thats why he died for Sin - so the sinner could rule over it instead of be ruled by it. He is not intolerant of our wants and needs... Memo he made us with desires, loves, ambitions, talents, he just wants to use these things for his Good! AND HIS GOOD IS ALSO OUR GOOD! He is not all up for inflicting suffering on anyone who challenges him.. he is trying to shout to that person 'SATAN IS LYING TO YOU - HE IS SAYING WHAT HE WANTS IS BETTER - HE IS SAYING THAT THIS WORLD IS WORTH MORE THAN WORLD TO COME!' If we want to settle for our goals, our careers - this fallen world which is dying, full of war, pain - then we are forcing him from us and doing an Adam and Eve, we are gonna be stuck in Sin - and slaves to ourselves and this world. That isnt freedom. That isnt gettin us to heaven.
> Memorandum! wrote:
> you see, this p**ses me off. God might be our almighty creator and
> all, but if all he wants to do is lay down a set of rules to dictate
> what we can and can't do for fear of ending up dead or in eternal
> torment, he doesn't sound all-loving to me. He sounds like...a
> dictator.
...Did he set and lay down loads of rules? or did he not just say 'dont eat from that one tree out of the whole of heavenly eden.. coz your gonna die?'
It was satan that TWISTED Gods words and made it seem that they were being hard done by and that God was putting down the 'rules'
>
> Humans get punished for not following God's orders. Why?
> What does he get out of it?
> Is he so intolerant of other people's views and ambitions that he
> has
> to inflict suffering on anyone who challenges him? Nice. He sounds
> a
> bit like Hitler.
Sin has to be punished, he HATES sin, not the sinner. Thats why he died for Sin - so the sinner could rule over it instead of be ruled by it. He is not intolerant of our wants and needs... Memo he made us with desires, loves, ambitions, talents, he just wants to use these things for his Good! AND HIS GOOD IS ALSO OUR GOOD! He is not all up for inflicting suffering on anyone who challenges him.. he is trying to shout to that person 'SATAN IS LYING TO YOU - HE IS SAYING WHAT HE WANTS IS BETTER - HE IS SAYING THAT THIS WORLD IS WORTH MORE THAN WORLD TO COME!' If we want to settle for our goals, our careers - this fallen world which is dying, full of war, pain - then we are forcing him from us and doing an Adam and Eve, we are gonna be stuck in Sin - and slaves to ourselves and this world. That isnt freedom. That isnt gettin us to heaven.
Strafio wrote:
> Lil Ginge wrote:
> Adam and Eve were in a perfect relationship with God - they could
> see
> him, talk to him. They were also in a perfect relationship with
> eachother. They didnt biccur and fight, feel pain or DIE before the
> fall because before Satan tempted and twisted Gods words so Adam and
> Eve actively ignored Gods only instruction
>
> Thing is, if the relationship was so perfect then there would've been
> perfect understanding too. They'd've understood why God didn't want
> them to have that fruit and so Satan wouldn't have been able to have
> confused them by twisting God's words.
They did - so that they wouldnt DIE! But they ignored it - free will
>
> Now to me, ok God, fair dues - he didnt say 'you musnt eat of it
> because I DONT WANT YOU TO!' he said 'Because you will surely die'.
>
> But he still left it there as an eternal temptation.
> Why do that?
> Was he testing their obedience, or waiting for them to work their way
> to it, knowing that sooner or later they would have to learn
> "right" and "wrong" to grow...
To be honest, i am not sure why the tree was created. I think it was because God wants us to love him, follow him out of OUR will not his. To exercise our will for Good.. I struggle with this. But i know God, and I know he isnt a God of suffering and I trust him.. he is God and I am not
>
> Personally, I don't think that there was literally no pain or death,
> because they are standard biological function. I think that it means
> that there was no suffering.
> For example, Adam and Eve had no concept of death, so could not fear
> death - could not suffer of it.
> The tree of knowledge would've changed that.
..wow - agreed! infact that helps...
>
> How's that for food for thought? :-)
> Lil Ginge wrote:
> Adam and Eve were in a perfect relationship with God - they could
> see
> him, talk to him. They were also in a perfect relationship with
> eachother. They didnt biccur and fight, feel pain or DIE before the
> fall because before Satan tempted and twisted Gods words so Adam and
> Eve actively ignored Gods only instruction
>
> Thing is, if the relationship was so perfect then there would've been
> perfect understanding too. They'd've understood why God didn't want
> them to have that fruit and so Satan wouldn't have been able to have
> confused them by twisting God's words.
They did - so that they wouldnt DIE! But they ignored it - free will
>
> Now to me, ok God, fair dues - he didnt say 'you musnt eat of it
> because I DONT WANT YOU TO!' he said 'Because you will surely die'.
>
> But he still left it there as an eternal temptation.
> Why do that?
> Was he testing their obedience, or waiting for them to work their way
> to it, knowing that sooner or later they would have to learn
> "right" and "wrong" to grow...
To be honest, i am not sure why the tree was created. I think it was because God wants us to love him, follow him out of OUR will not his. To exercise our will for Good.. I struggle with this. But i know God, and I know he isnt a God of suffering and I trust him.. he is God and I am not
>
> Personally, I don't think that there was literally no pain or death,
> because they are standard biological function. I think that it means
> that there was no suffering.
> For example, Adam and Eve had no concept of death, so could not fear
> death - could not suffer of it.
> The tree of knowledge would've changed that.
..wow - agreed! infact that helps...
>
> How's that for food for thought? :-)
What a lengthy way to explain the concept of 'original sin'.
Lil Ginge wrote:
> Anyway anyone wanna know How I became a christian and came
> to know God do ask.. i have said before. Its pretty cool, none the
> less.
Unless it involves machines guns and nudity, I'm not interested.
> Anyway anyone wanna know How I became a christian and came
> to know God do ask.. i have said before. Its pretty cool, none the
> less.
Unless it involves machines guns and nudity, I'm not interested.
Memorandum! wrote:
> you see, this p**ses me off. God might be our almighty creator and
> all, but if all he wants to do is lay down a set of rules to dictate
> what we can and can't do for fear of ending up dead or in eternal
> torment, he doesn't sound all-loving to me. He sounds like...a
> dictator.
>
> Humans get punished for not following God's orders. Why?
> What does he get out of it?
> Is he so intolerant of other people's views and ambitions that he has
> to inflict suffering on anyone who challenges him? Nice. He sounds a
> bit like Hitler.
Yeah, this sums up why I think that so many have got the wrong end of the stick when it comes to judgement.
Apparently there's a specific thing that God wants us too live, but gives us free will (not so we can simply choose not to, but to the extent where it's practically impossible for anyone but Jesus to manage to get it right) so we go wrong and he gets to punish us.
Personally, I think that "judgement" is more natural, in a more karmic sort of way. "Sinful" stuff tends to lead you getting into a bad situation in life, in a "what goes around comes around" sort of way, so God/Jesus tries to lead us in a way that works best for us.
I think this afterlife judgment and a place called hell mostly comes from Revelations (and no offence to John, but I swear he was on acid when he wrote it - recommended reading for anyone looking for the psychadelic holy experience). When Jesus talked of "hell", it was always in parables, in a metaphoric sort of way.
> you see, this p**ses me off. God might be our almighty creator and
> all, but if all he wants to do is lay down a set of rules to dictate
> what we can and can't do for fear of ending up dead or in eternal
> torment, he doesn't sound all-loving to me. He sounds like...a
> dictator.
>
> Humans get punished for not following God's orders. Why?
> What does he get out of it?
> Is he so intolerant of other people's views and ambitions that he has
> to inflict suffering on anyone who challenges him? Nice. He sounds a
> bit like Hitler.
Yeah, this sums up why I think that so many have got the wrong end of the stick when it comes to judgement.
Apparently there's a specific thing that God wants us too live, but gives us free will (not so we can simply choose not to, but to the extent where it's practically impossible for anyone but Jesus to manage to get it right) so we go wrong and he gets to punish us.
Personally, I think that "judgement" is more natural, in a more karmic sort of way. "Sinful" stuff tends to lead you getting into a bad situation in life, in a "what goes around comes around" sort of way, so God/Jesus tries to lead us in a way that works best for us.
I think this afterlife judgment and a place called hell mostly comes from Revelations (and no offence to John, but I swear he was on acid when he wrote it - recommended reading for anyone looking for the psychadelic holy experience). When Jesus talked of "hell", it was always in parables, in a metaphoric sort of way.
This is why it is so important (in my view) that we get right with God.
...From the start his plans have been to love and to prosper us - to lead us to his will in a loving relationship in which we both are blessed.
'Its in Christ that we find out who we are and what we are living for. Long before we first heard of Christ... he has his eye on us, had designs on us for glorious living, part of the overall purpose he is working in everything and everyone' - ephesians 1.11
'I am your creator you were in my care, even before you were born'
'this world is fading away, along with everything it craves, but if you do the will of God, you will live forever.' 1 John 2:17
Yep, so this is SOME of what I believe.. did i answer qu. 3? cant remember. Anyway anyone wanna know How I became a christian and came to know God do ask.. i have said before. Its pretty cool, none the less.
Ya so - that was a bit deep for lil ginge *breathes again* but ya know, you asked and i thought i'd share my views... and all that
innit!
...From the start his plans have been to love and to prosper us - to lead us to his will in a loving relationship in which we both are blessed.
'Its in Christ that we find out who we are and what we are living for. Long before we first heard of Christ... he has his eye on us, had designs on us for glorious living, part of the overall purpose he is working in everything and everyone' - ephesians 1.11
'I am your creator you were in my care, even before you were born'
'this world is fading away, along with everything it craves, but if you do the will of God, you will live forever.' 1 John 2:17
Yep, so this is SOME of what I believe.. did i answer qu. 3? cant remember. Anyway anyone wanna know How I became a christian and came to know God do ask.. i have said before. Its pretty cool, none the less.
Ya so - that was a bit deep for lil ginge *breathes again* but ya know, you asked and i thought i'd share my views... and all that
innit!
J Nash wrote:
> No, no. The argument where people are trying to explain that
> dinosaurs exsitsed 3000 years ago is all "what if"s and
> "maybe"s.
>
> The argument against it has the fact that the fossils of those
> creatures date back millions of years before that, and that barly
> (none if you don't count the brief reference to soemthing that may or
> may not have been a Hippo in Job) no mentioning of them in that time
> exsists.
I guess I was talking more about the argument against the Bible in general.
The thing with the dinosaur argument, the Bible doesn't mention them, but does it have to mention everything that ever was?
Personally, I don't think that the story of creation is a literal story, but a simplified "kids" version that God told for primitive Moses.
Perhaps God did try to explain evolution, and then seeing the puzzled look on Moses' face decided to keep it a little simpler for the guy. :-)
> No, no. The argument where people are trying to explain that
> dinosaurs exsitsed 3000 years ago is all "what if"s and
> "maybe"s.
>
> The argument against it has the fact that the fossils of those
> creatures date back millions of years before that, and that barly
> (none if you don't count the brief reference to soemthing that may or
> may not have been a Hippo in Job) no mentioning of them in that time
> exsists.
I guess I was talking more about the argument against the Bible in general.
The thing with the dinosaur argument, the Bible doesn't mention them, but does it have to mention everything that ever was?
Personally, I don't think that the story of creation is a literal story, but a simplified "kids" version that God told for primitive Moses.
Perhaps God did try to explain evolution, and then seeing the puzzled look on Moses' face decided to keep it a little simpler for the guy. :-)
Lil Ginge wrote:
> 'The sad truth is that, from the very beginning, men and women
> everywhere have rejected God by doing things their own way. We all do
> this. We don’t like someone telling us what to do or how to live—least
> of all God—and so we rebel against him in lots of different ways. We
> ignore him and just get on with our own lives; or we disobey his
> instructions for living in his world; or we shake our puny fists in
> his face and tell him to get lost.
>
> How ever we do it, we are all rebels, because we don’t live God’s
> way. We prefer to follow our own desires, and to run things our own
> way, without God. This rebellious, self-sufficient attitude is what
> the Bible calls ‘sin’.
you see, this p**ses me off. God might be our almighty creator and all, but if all he wants to do is lay down a set of rules to dictate what we can and can't do for fear of ending up dead or in eternal torment, he doesn't sound all-loving to me. He sounds like...a dictator.
Humans get punished for not following God's orders. Why?
What does he get out of it?
Is he so intolerant of other people's views and ambitions that he has to inflict suffering on anyone who challenges him? Nice. He sounds a bit like Hitler.
> 'The sad truth is that, from the very beginning, men and women
> everywhere have rejected God by doing things their own way. We all do
> this. We don’t like someone telling us what to do or how to live—least
> of all God—and so we rebel against him in lots of different ways. We
> ignore him and just get on with our own lives; or we disobey his
> instructions for living in his world; or we shake our puny fists in
> his face and tell him to get lost.
>
> How ever we do it, we are all rebels, because we don’t live God’s
> way. We prefer to follow our own desires, and to run things our own
> way, without God. This rebellious, self-sufficient attitude is what
> the Bible calls ‘sin’.
you see, this p**ses me off. God might be our almighty creator and all, but if all he wants to do is lay down a set of rules to dictate what we can and can't do for fear of ending up dead or in eternal torment, he doesn't sound all-loving to me. He sounds like...a dictator.
Humans get punished for not following God's orders. Why?
What does he get out of it?
Is he so intolerant of other people's views and ambitions that he has to inflict suffering on anyone who challenges him? Nice. He sounds a bit like Hitler.
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