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Why do they just keep buying very good players, when they could buy excellent players with the near "unlimited" funds they have to spend with. I mean, they've just bid 24 million for Drogba, OK he is a very good striker, but, quite frankly, Chelsea could easily do better. Your views on this?
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The GingerLord wrote:
> lalakersrule wrote:
> You can't have form players at international level, you need players
> that can get it done every single game. A form player isn't a great
> player. And also Forlan has a 1 in 2 record for his country, i doubt
> that makes him a great player.
> Forlan's goals are scored against the dodgy teams in the Copa
> America, and I doubt he's played 50 games either (although I'm
> prepared to be corrected!)
He hasn't he's only played 18 games, i was being mischeivous :-D
> Other than that Owen strangely absent for rest of the game
>
> That's Owen all over though - he isn't an Henry who gets on the ball
> every 5 seconds. Henry actually commented on how much he respects
> Owen for this. That he can be quite for a whole game - then do
> something special with his one or two chances.
But he hasn't been doing anything special with those one or two chances for quite a while now. I think that shot against the Croats i think it was where he just tamely scuffed it along the ground to the keeper summed him up perfectly as of late.
> lalakersrule wrote:
> You can't have form players at international level, you need players
> that can get it done every single game. A form player isn't a great
> player. And also Forlan has a 1 in 2 record for his country, i doubt
> that makes him a great player.
> Forlan's goals are scored against the dodgy teams in the Copa
> America, and I doubt he's played 50 games either (although I'm
> prepared to be corrected!)
He hasn't he's only played 18 games, i was being mischeivous :-D
> Other than that Owen strangely absent for rest of the game
>
> That's Owen all over though - he isn't an Henry who gets on the ball
> every 5 seconds. Henry actually commented on how much he respects
> Owen for this. That he can be quite for a whole game - then do
> something special with his one or two chances.
But he hasn't been doing anything special with those one or two chances for quite a while now. I think that shot against the Croats i think it was where he just tamely scuffed it along the ground to the keeper summed him up perfectly as of late.
lalakersrule wrote:
> You can't have form players at international level, you need players
> that can get it done every single game. A form player isn't a great
> player. And also Forlan has a 1 in 2 record for his country, i doubt
> that makes him a great player.
Forlan's goals are scored against the dodgy teams in the Copa America, and I doubt he's played 50 games either (although I'm prepared to be corrected!)
>
>
> France - neither player really got a sniff after England went into
> defensive mode
>
> Well apart from Rooney who got taken out by Silvestre after a good
> run only for golden bloopers to miss the penalty
Fair point!
>
>
> Switzerland - Owen crosses for Rooney, Rooney scores a goal that the
> keeper was really at fault at (but you have to give him credit for
> striking the ball so well)
>
> Other than that Owen strangely absent for rest of the game
That's Owen all over though - he isn't an Henry who gets on the ball every 5 seconds. Henry actually commented on how much he respects Owen for this. That he can be quite for a whole game - then do something special with his one or two chances.
> You can't have form players at international level, you need players
> that can get it done every single game. A form player isn't a great
> player. And also Forlan has a 1 in 2 record for his country, i doubt
> that makes him a great player.
Forlan's goals are scored against the dodgy teams in the Copa America, and I doubt he's played 50 games either (although I'm prepared to be corrected!)
>
>
> France - neither player really got a sniff after England went into
> defensive mode
>
> Well apart from Rooney who got taken out by Silvestre after a good
> run only for golden bloopers to miss the penalty
Fair point!
>
>
> Switzerland - Owen crosses for Rooney, Rooney scores a goal that the
> keeper was really at fault at (but you have to give him credit for
> striking the ball so well)
>
> Other than that Owen strangely absent for rest of the game
That's Owen all over though - he isn't an Henry who gets on the ball every 5 seconds. Henry actually commented on how much he respects Owen for this. That he can be quite for a whole game - then do something special with his one or two chances.
Colourless wrote:
> OUr best players were Rooney, Campbell, Cole and Lampard. You can't
> have your best two players being defenders... otherwise we'll never
> get anywhere.
Agreed, but that doesn't make Owen the scapegoat. He's not a Rooney. He's not gonna bomb one in from 20 yards every game. But we all know that. Surely the fact that you only picked one midfielder there is more telling - without Beckham, Gerrard and Scholes (our "creative" midfielders) playing well, can you really expect Owen to score that many? No. So he did his bit as well he could - created space for Rooney, and did his bit for the team in that way.
GL
> OUr best players were Rooney, Campbell, Cole and Lampard. You can't
> have your best two players being defenders... otherwise we'll never
> get anywhere.
Agreed, but that doesn't make Owen the scapegoat. He's not a Rooney. He's not gonna bomb one in from 20 yards every game. But we all know that. Surely the fact that you only picked one midfielder there is more telling - without Beckham, Gerrard and Scholes (our "creative" midfielders) playing well, can you really expect Owen to score that many? No. So he did his bit as well he could - created space for Rooney, and did his bit for the team in that way.
GL
The GingerLord wrote:
> Owen is England's no.1 forward - no question. He has a 1 in 2 record
> for 50 games. That is the sign of a quality player. He is an
> instinctive finisher, but is also very much a form player.
You can't have form players at international level, you need players that can get it done every single game. A form player isn't a great player. And also Forlan has a 1 in 2 record for his country, i doubt that makes him a great player.
> France - neither player really got a sniff after England went into
> defensive mode
Well apart from Rooney who got taken out by Silvestre after a good run only for golden bloopers to miss the penalty
> Switzerland - Owen crosses for Rooney, Rooney scores a goal that the
> keeper was really at fault at (but you have to give him credit for
> striking the ball so well)
Other than that Owen strangely absent for rest of the game
> Croatia - both involved for Scholes goal (and Owen in form would have
> scored from his original chance), Rooney scores with another good
> strike, Owen puts Rooney through for the third
His only decent game of the tournie
> Owen is England's no.1 forward - no question. He has a 1 in 2 record
> for 50 games. That is the sign of a quality player. He is an
> instinctive finisher, but is also very much a form player.
You can't have form players at international level, you need players that can get it done every single game. A form player isn't a great player. And also Forlan has a 1 in 2 record for his country, i doubt that makes him a great player.
> France - neither player really got a sniff after England went into
> defensive mode
Well apart from Rooney who got taken out by Silvestre after a good run only for golden bloopers to miss the penalty
> Switzerland - Owen crosses for Rooney, Rooney scores a goal that the
> keeper was really at fault at (but you have to give him credit for
> striking the ball so well)
Other than that Owen strangely absent for rest of the game
> Croatia - both involved for Scholes goal (and Owen in form would have
> scored from his original chance), Rooney scores with another good
> strike, Owen puts Rooney through for the third
His only decent game of the tournie
Rooney carried the England team through Euro 2004.
OUr best players were Rooney, Campbell, Cole and Lampard. You can't have your best two players being defenders... otherwise we'll never get anywhere.
Owen was tame. No matter what his excuse is, everyone can see that he is not the player he once was. He's lost a yard of pace, and he looked sharp between the World cup 98 and 02. Now he's tame....
OUr best players were Rooney, Campbell, Cole and Lampard. You can't have your best two players being defenders... otherwise we'll never get anywhere.
Owen was tame. No matter what his excuse is, everyone can see that he is not the player he once was. He's lost a yard of pace, and he looked sharp between the World cup 98 and 02. Now he's tame....
Owen is England's no.1 forward - no question. He has a 1 in 2 record for 50 games. That is the sign of a quality player. He is an instinctive finisher, but is also very much a form player.
My view was that Owen's poor form at Euro 2004 was due to two factors:
1. Liverpool's poor form last season. Owen did amazingly well to score as many as he did in what was, quite frankly, the worst Liverpool team I have seen in a good many years. The league table should actually have read:
Arsenal
Chelsea
Man U
Gerrard & Owen
Newcastle
if you ask me!
2. England asking Owen to lead the line to accomodate Rooney. Rooney is still learning the game. When he was asked to play further forward to allow Scholes to push forward, he looked uncomfortable. As he gets older he will learn to adapt better, but at the moment he can only play his "natural" game. Owen, who is a very intelligent player, modified his game to create the room for Rooney, who then had the time and space to shine.
Look at the 4 games again:
France - neither player really got a sniff after England went into defensive mode
Switzerland - Owen crosses for Rooney, Rooney scores a goal that the keeper was really at fault at (but you have to give him credit for striking the ball so well)
Croatia - both involved for Scholes goal (and Owen in form would have scored from his original chance), Rooney scores with another good strike, Owen puts Rooney through for the third
Portugal - Owen improvises well to score the first, but then England sit back and neither gets another chance
I think that for the first time in quite a while England have two very good strikers, and as they play together more it can only be better for England's chances. But at the moment, I would still place Owen ahead of Rooney.
GL
My view was that Owen's poor form at Euro 2004 was due to two factors:
1. Liverpool's poor form last season. Owen did amazingly well to score as many as he did in what was, quite frankly, the worst Liverpool team I have seen in a good many years. The league table should actually have read:
Arsenal
Chelsea
Man U
Gerrard & Owen
Newcastle
if you ask me!
2. England asking Owen to lead the line to accomodate Rooney. Rooney is still learning the game. When he was asked to play further forward to allow Scholes to push forward, he looked uncomfortable. As he gets older he will learn to adapt better, but at the moment he can only play his "natural" game. Owen, who is a very intelligent player, modified his game to create the room for Rooney, who then had the time and space to shine.
Look at the 4 games again:
France - neither player really got a sniff after England went into defensive mode
Switzerland - Owen crosses for Rooney, Rooney scores a goal that the keeper was really at fault at (but you have to give him credit for striking the ball so well)
Croatia - both involved for Scholes goal (and Owen in form would have scored from his original chance), Rooney scores with another good strike, Owen puts Rooney through for the third
Portugal - Owen improvises well to score the first, but then England sit back and neither gets another chance
I think that for the first time in quite a while England have two very good strikers, and as they play together more it can only be better for England's chances. But at the moment, I would still place Owen ahead of Rooney.
GL
Stryke wrote:
> Miss the Croatia game then when he headed over for Scholes goal?
>
> --
>
> Owen created that goal with his work at the post and the chip-up.
> Rooney was probably going for goal.
What?!?!?!? Owen can't claim an assist by missing. He shot and the keeper saved it. That's no piece of brilliance from Owen. If anyone should get the assist it should be Rooney (or perhaps Super Frank.... :P)
> Miss the Croatia game then when he headed over for Scholes goal?
>
> --
>
> Owen created that goal with his work at the post and the chip-up.
> Rooney was probably going for goal.
What?!?!?!? Owen can't claim an assist by missing. He shot and the keeper saved it. That's no piece of brilliance from Owen. If anyone should get the assist it should be Rooney (or perhaps Super Frank.... :P)
Lol @ ricardo goalkeeper of the tourney.
Stryke wrote:
> lalakersrule wrote:
>
> Saw a different goal to me then, all i saw was him getting himself
> in
> a bad position for the ball and got lucky with a simple flick on any
> decent keeper could have saved.
>
> --
>
> What? He turned brilliantly, and Ricardo (who was goalkeeper of the
> tournament, by the way) could do nothing.
Oh you mean the goalkeeper of the tournament who kept getting himself in all sorts of trouble for crosses and corners? Please he's the portugese David James. And he didn't turn he just hit the ball with his back to goal.
Rooney would've tried to
> bring it down and then tried to drive it. Like he always does.
and probably scored to.
> Miss the Croatia game then when he headed over for Scholes goal?
>
> --
>
> Owen created that goal with his work at the post and the chip-up.
> Rooney was probably going for goal.
The assist will still go to him though, using your point i could argue that when a keeper takes a goal kick and passes it to the defender, after all the build up play and that team scoring would the keeper get the assist for starting the move? I don't think so
> Strange i thought him getting paid all that money and bringing
> success to the club he plays for should be all the incentive he
> needs.
>
> --
>
> Players need motivating. AT least he doesn't sulk like a little baby
> when the manager subs him off because he's not performing. Ever seen
> Moyes taking Rooney off? He goes all red-faced and sulks, then
> waddles away into the tunnel.
Shows he wants to play football unlike Owen who looked like he was there to top up his tan and pocket his money.
> lalakersrule wrote:
>
> Saw a different goal to me then, all i saw was him getting himself
> in
> a bad position for the ball and got lucky with a simple flick on any
> decent keeper could have saved.
>
> --
>
> What? He turned brilliantly, and Ricardo (who was goalkeeper of the
> tournament, by the way) could do nothing.
Oh you mean the goalkeeper of the tournament who kept getting himself in all sorts of trouble for crosses and corners? Please he's the portugese David James. And he didn't turn he just hit the ball with his back to goal.
Rooney would've tried to
> bring it down and then tried to drive it. Like he always does.
and probably scored to.
> Miss the Croatia game then when he headed over for Scholes goal?
>
> --
>
> Owen created that goal with his work at the post and the chip-up.
> Rooney was probably going for goal.
The assist will still go to him though, using your point i could argue that when a keeper takes a goal kick and passes it to the defender, after all the build up play and that team scoring would the keeper get the assist for starting the move? I don't think so
> Strange i thought him getting paid all that money and bringing
> success to the club he plays for should be all the incentive he
> needs.
>
> --
>
> Players need motivating. AT least he doesn't sulk like a little baby
> when the manager subs him off because he's not performing. Ever seen
> Moyes taking Rooney off? He goes all red-faced and sulks, then
> waddles away into the tunnel.
Shows he wants to play football unlike Owen who looked like he was there to top up his tan and pocket his money.
Colourless wrote:
>> That was a great strike. Just because he's from the blue side of
> Merseyside, doesn't mean you shouldn't give him credit when in an
> England shirt.
--
I'm Welsh, so what people do in an England shirt means nothing to me. And him being from Goodison doesn't matter internationally. When Rooney's been scoring 1 in 2 consistently for 6 years, then let's give him Owen-esque stature. Never judge a player by one tournament, otherwise you'd end up signing Kleberson or El-Hadji Diouf.
--
>> And how many chances did he miss? I remember one, where he hit the
> bar from 1 yard out...?
--
And how many did Rooney score again? That bright young talent?
--
> Not currently. Owen used to be a genius. Now he is tame.
--
Dear me, remember the old phrase. Form is temporary, class permanent. Owen is still a genius, he just lacked a bit of confidence in front of goal in the first group stages. He made up for it by creating goals, drawing defenders, making spaces for your 'wonderboy.'
>> That was a great strike. Just because he's from the blue side of
> Merseyside, doesn't mean you shouldn't give him credit when in an
> England shirt.
--
I'm Welsh, so what people do in an England shirt means nothing to me. And him being from Goodison doesn't matter internationally. When Rooney's been scoring 1 in 2 consistently for 6 years, then let's give him Owen-esque stature. Never judge a player by one tournament, otherwise you'd end up signing Kleberson or El-Hadji Diouf.
--
>> And how many chances did he miss? I remember one, where he hit the
> bar from 1 yard out...?
--
And how many did Rooney score again? That bright young talent?
--
> Not currently. Owen used to be a genius. Now he is tame.
--
Dear me, remember the old phrase. Form is temporary, class permanent. Owen is still a genius, he just lacked a bit of confidence in front of goal in the first group stages. He made up for it by creating goals, drawing defenders, making spaces for your 'wonderboy.'
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