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"Is This Too Far?"

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Sun 04/04/04 at 21:35
Regular
"Which one's pink?"
Posts: 12,152
I read something today.

There's some monument/statue thing being erected of a boar of sorts - I don't know why/the story behind it, but it just is.

Anyway, Muslims are claiming that they will vandalise the statue if it is built, and are protesting against its construction.

Why?
Because they don't eat pig meat, and are offended by it.

What the hell?
Now, like Foreman I don't want to sound racist, but come on.
That's just utterly stupid - it is after all our nation, and, though I respect Britain is becoming/is multinational, it works both ways.
If the statue is to be built for whatever reason, let it be built. I'm sure there are plenty of things that immigrants and other Muslims do that offend Britons.

Ah well, I dunno.

Your views?
Mon 05/04/04 at 03:53
Regular
Posts: 8,220
Obviously all the usual disclaimers apply - it's not all muslims, and other groups show the same problems.


But it really does seem so screwed up, how extreme muslims are so intollerant of other groups.
A statue of a pig, for crap's sake. How is that seriously offensive? How does it hurt people?
And it crops up all over the place too - you hear eastern extremist muslims justify anti-western opinion by arguing that they find westerners' lifestyles offensive. They cancelled the middle-east big brother (no bad thing in itself :^) ) because some people objected to unmarried etc women and men living together.
And you could find plenty more examples.

It seems some people simply don't accept the 'do what you want so long as it doesn't hurt other people' philosophy.
Instead it's 'do something I don't like and the s*** will hit the fan'.


There is a contrived argument that by doing something which supposedly only affects those who consent to it (informed and metally competent adults), there is a negative knock-on effect on society.
Short-sighted people claim it's a 'philosophical paradox'.

These people suck.
If there is a genuine negative effect on society, then the activity concerned wouldn't be 'not harming anyone else'. So it's not a paradox.

Also, the paradox argument generally comes up in the context that the people engaging in the activity, in doing so, encourage other people to do the activity too.
But if there really is no moral objection to the activity, or to the particular consenting people engaging in the activity, then there is no legitimate objection to encouraging other people to choose to engage in the activity.

Therefore the paradox argument is usually based on a veiled predjudice - it's advocate claims to follow the 'do what you want so long as it doesn't hurt other people' line, but they do not. They believe that the activity harms society, by harming those who engage in it, and so it should be stopped. Regardless of whether those who engage in it are informed and consenting or otherwise.



So, we have one kind of muslim mentality that doesn't believe in 'do what you want so long as it doesn't harm other people', and will seek to impose their whims on everyone else, by force or criminal damage if necessary.

Before we do condemn these people, we should take a step back, and ask whether the 'do what you want if it doesn't harm other people' principle is just one of many philosophical standpoints, or whether it is inherently and logically a morally 'right' principle.

If you accept that all people are equal, this does not (in a civilised society) permit one person to arbitrarily impose their will on another. Also, it is impossible for everyone to impose their wills on each other like this simultaneously.
Therefore if all people are considered equal then the 'do what you want if it doesn't hurt anyone else' principle must stand.


So having taken our step back we can condemn these people as biggots.

Not all muslims, not by a long way, and there are plenty of biggots from all kinds of ethnic groups that have similarly screwed up agendas, but this look like another example of biggotted t***ers trying to shove people around, and a government made impotent by a warped notion of political correctness is handing their balls to these biggots on a plate.
Mon 05/04/04 at 02:39
Regular
"Which one's pink?"
Posts: 12,152
I mean, the point I made about Britain being multi national/cultured is too true.
It seems we're always p*ssy-footing (filtered...) around as not to offend people who we have allowed into our country.
Ach well.
Mon 05/04/04 at 02:32
Regular
"5 European Cups!!!"
Posts: 5,795
How petty that is.

I'm all for allowing other races/religions to live as they want to, but not building something which, in general, wouldn't cause offense; it won't get built because a Muslim group has dared to deface it?

Do we live in Great Britian? Or Everyone Elses Right To Bare Their Religion And Change our Culture Britain?
Mon 05/04/04 at 02:25
Regular
"Which one's pink?"
Posts: 12,152
Aha.

[URL]http://cnnmoney.yellowbrix.com/pages/cnnmoney/Story.nsp?story_id=48822296&ID=cnnmoney&scategory=Metals+%26+Minerals&[/URL]

It explains all.
Mon 05/04/04 at 02:23
Regular
"Which one's pink?"
Posts: 12,152
On why they're building it - I don't know.
But it isn't anything major I think.
Mon 05/04/04 at 02:14
Regular
"5 European Cups!!!"
Posts: 5,795
SHEEPY wrote:

More important question

Why are they building a statue of a pig?
-------------------

Well said.

But on the subject on the moral obligations of it all; Britain should be allowed to build whatever it wants, it IS Britain, after all.

And I don't mean we should be allowed to build anything of racial or sexist influence, but this takes the p*ss.

It's like those [can't remember the religion] cheering for the September 11th attacks in Leicester; this surely shouldn't be allowed or tolerated?
Mon 05/04/04 at 02:00
Regular
"Which one's pink?"
Posts: 12,152
ßora† §agdiyeV wrote:
> tabloids fuel the fires of war, and fan the flames of racial tension.

I can tell that was well thought out.
:-D
Mon 05/04/04 at 01:56
Regular
Posts: 20,776
tabloids fuel the fires of war, and fan the flames of racial tension.
Mon 05/04/04 at 01:55
Regular
Posts: 20,776
the tabloids represent all that is wrong with our society. For the most part a bunch of gossiping, backstabbing, bandwagon jumping, pessimistic selfish misfits.

Of course, most people I know aren't like that, but those sort of people must be out there in abundance, otherwise the papers just wouldn't sell. If I ever read those things at dinnertime (at work) I can usually find perhaps 1 or 2 stories that interest me at most, and those will only be tiny little quarter page features, nestled amongst the torrent of celebrity ass kissing crap or slandering of some MP or another.

I heard the Sun was banned from printing pictures of Prince William. That's the best news I've had in ages. Perhaps soon they can bring in new laws that prevent them from printing anything that slanders somebody without 100% proof of their shortcomings beforehand.
Mon 05/04/04 at 01:49
Regular
"Which one's pink?"
Posts: 12,152
ßora† §agdiyeV wrote:
> People care more about David Beckhams new Ferrari than
> they do about who will be the next Prime Minister.

The first seven pages of The Sun, including completely covering the front page?

DAVID BECKHAM IN AFFAIR SHOCK!
THE STORY NOBODY WANTS TO READ!
PAGES 1,2,3,4,5,6 & 7!

And the sad thing is, that's quoted.
(My dad buys it for some God awful reason)

Oh, and around about page 13 or something was a snippet about the Madrid bombing suspects committing suicide.

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