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For a while at least. forest fans religious hijacking of every thread posted has p's'ed me off for the last time. If anyone wants me, I'll be in the movies and possibly the chat (shudder) forums until this turns back into "intelligent discussion" and not "forest fan is a xtian"
If he's trolling, he'll be like a pig in s'it.
If he's trolling, he'll be like a pig in s'it.
Page:
Regarding your point about the Lord's Will and Him knowing He did, but out of His immense grace He gave free-will.
Forest Fan wrote:
>
> We all deserve to go to hell for our sins?
>
> Yes, we all fall short and have sinned, hence we all deserve eternal
> hell-fire. We ALL do.
Heh. You're sounding more and more like a battered wife Gump...
>
> Presumably then, he created Hell to make us suffer.
>
> Wrong, when He first Created the world there was no Hell. When Satan
> became a fallen angel, Hell was Created just for Satan. If man had
> never sinned, only the devil and his demons would be there.
I see. So this all loving and all forgiving God who is omniscient and can therefore see everything past, present, and future...presumably he knew that creating mankind would cause Lucifer to rebel. So why do it? Why did he deliberately cause a situation that he knew would result in condemning half the heavenly host to eternal suffering? The more you talk about this God of yours, the more he sounds like a bloodthirsty egomaniac.
>
> "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me,
> accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the
> devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41
Nice. A biblical quote that adds nothing to what you've said, and betrays your reluctance to actually think about what you're asked and, instead, fall back on learned-by-rote quotes.
>
> So he created the
> torture before he gave us the chance to repent eh?
>
> No.
Well yeah, he did. You've just said that Hell was created for Lucifer. He was around before us. Ergo, hell existed before we did.
C'mon Gump, you're falling apart disappointingly quickly on this one.
>
> Lets see if we've
> got this clear then; according to you, this loving God created a
> place specifically to make us suffer, then he said "But if you
> adore me, I won't send you there". That's not the act of a
> loving being. That's the act of a lunatic who craves adoration.
>
> No, God Created Hell SOLEY for the devils and his angels as explained
> in Matthew, humans only began to join them after after the fall of
> man.
....none of which addresses one simply point that I raised. I note that you're only addressing the whole "did God create hell for us" point to get out of addressing the meat of what was said (you sly, unthinking little dull-eyed fundamentalist you), so I'll make it crystal clear for you...
God said to humanity, "Unless you adore me slavishly and unquesioningly, I will send you to this place of suffering and torture". He did NOT say "I love you all unconditionally, so although you are sinners, I forgive you".
In other words, his love is based on the condition of us loving him. Sad to say that love isn't like that. No-one in their right mind says "If you say you'll love me, I'll love you in return". Do they Gump?
>
> Furthermore, this obsession that you have with sin. It's one more
> reason why I'm more and more convinced that I'm 100% correct to
> compare your particular brand of christian mindset with that of a
> battered wife. Let me explain further;
>
> In every case of domestic abuse I dealt with, the woman had always
> been told by her spouse that she'd done something terrible to make
> her deserve the beatings she received. However, because the maggoty
> little scumslug told her that he loved her, and it was that a love
> that stopped her receiving more beatings (which, after having been
> repeatedly told that she deserved them, she believed him. Despite
> not
> having any evidence of what she'd done to deserve it beyond "He
> says I deserve it"), the woman was left thinking that he must
> truly love her because she was an awful person who deserved to be
> beaten, yet he only did so when she 'misbehaved'.
>
> Now how is that even remotely different to the putrid and fearful
> philosophy that you're laughably referring to as God's 'unfailing
> love'?
>
> Actually we ALL deserve to go to Hell. We are all sins and extremely
> serious and are compared to the colour of scarlet red, only Jesus can
> make them as white as snow.
> "Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD,
> "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow;
> Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool."
> Isaiah 1:18
....and again, none of which answers, rebuts, or even acknowledges the original point: you have the mindset of a victim of domestic abuse, and the God you describe is no more than a wifebeater on a large scale. You're very fond of sniffing "I'm debating" on this board. Yet here you are, refusing to answer questions and responding to them with biblical quotes and repetition of "We are all sinners". Are you going to use your brain Gump? Or are you terrified that your abusive God with spank you red-raw for daring to actually think about you're asked?
C'mon Gump, answer me; how is what you describe as your God's 'love' any different from my description of a Wife beater's 'love' for his victim? I'm waiting...
>
> We all deserve to go to hell for our sins?
>
> Yes, we all fall short and have sinned, hence we all deserve eternal
> hell-fire. We ALL do.
Heh. You're sounding more and more like a battered wife Gump...
>
> Presumably then, he created Hell to make us suffer.
>
> Wrong, when He first Created the world there was no Hell. When Satan
> became a fallen angel, Hell was Created just for Satan. If man had
> never sinned, only the devil and his demons would be there.
I see. So this all loving and all forgiving God who is omniscient and can therefore see everything past, present, and future...presumably he knew that creating mankind would cause Lucifer to rebel. So why do it? Why did he deliberately cause a situation that he knew would result in condemning half the heavenly host to eternal suffering? The more you talk about this God of yours, the more he sounds like a bloodthirsty egomaniac.
>
> "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me,
> accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the
> devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41
Nice. A biblical quote that adds nothing to what you've said, and betrays your reluctance to actually think about what you're asked and, instead, fall back on learned-by-rote quotes.
>
> So he created the
> torture before he gave us the chance to repent eh?
>
> No.
Well yeah, he did. You've just said that Hell was created for Lucifer. He was around before us. Ergo, hell existed before we did.
C'mon Gump, you're falling apart disappointingly quickly on this one.
>
> Lets see if we've
> got this clear then; according to you, this loving God created a
> place specifically to make us suffer, then he said "But if you
> adore me, I won't send you there". That's not the act of a
> loving being. That's the act of a lunatic who craves adoration.
>
> No, God Created Hell SOLEY for the devils and his angels as explained
> in Matthew, humans only began to join them after after the fall of
> man.
....none of which addresses one simply point that I raised. I note that you're only addressing the whole "did God create hell for us" point to get out of addressing the meat of what was said (you sly, unthinking little dull-eyed fundamentalist you), so I'll make it crystal clear for you...
God said to humanity, "Unless you adore me slavishly and unquesioningly, I will send you to this place of suffering and torture". He did NOT say "I love you all unconditionally, so although you are sinners, I forgive you".
In other words, his love is based on the condition of us loving him. Sad to say that love isn't like that. No-one in their right mind says "If you say you'll love me, I'll love you in return". Do they Gump?
>
> Furthermore, this obsession that you have with sin. It's one more
> reason why I'm more and more convinced that I'm 100% correct to
> compare your particular brand of christian mindset with that of a
> battered wife. Let me explain further;
>
> In every case of domestic abuse I dealt with, the woman had always
> been told by her spouse that she'd done something terrible to make
> her deserve the beatings she received. However, because the maggoty
> little scumslug told her that he loved her, and it was that a love
> that stopped her receiving more beatings (which, after having been
> repeatedly told that she deserved them, she believed him. Despite
> not
> having any evidence of what she'd done to deserve it beyond "He
> says I deserve it"), the woman was left thinking that he must
> truly love her because she was an awful person who deserved to be
> beaten, yet he only did so when she 'misbehaved'.
>
> Now how is that even remotely different to the putrid and fearful
> philosophy that you're laughably referring to as God's 'unfailing
> love'?
>
> Actually we ALL deserve to go to Hell. We are all sins and extremely
> serious and are compared to the colour of scarlet red, only Jesus can
> make them as white as snow.
> "Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD,
> "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow;
> Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool."
> Isaiah 1:18
....and again, none of which answers, rebuts, or even acknowledges the original point: you have the mindset of a victim of domestic abuse, and the God you describe is no more than a wifebeater on a large scale. You're very fond of sniffing "I'm debating" on this board. Yet here you are, refusing to answer questions and responding to them with biblical quotes and repetition of "We are all sinners". Are you going to use your brain Gump? Or are you terrified that your abusive God with spank you red-raw for daring to actually think about you're asked?
C'mon Gump, answer me; how is what you describe as your God's 'love' any different from my description of a Wife beater's 'love' for his victim? I'm waiting...
Light wrote:
> Forest Fan wrote:
>
>
> If you are questioning the unfailing love of God, picture this. We
> are all sinners and deserve to go to Hell for our sins, but Jesus
> has
> given us a way out. Now, that is unfailing love.
>
>
> Wow...an answer that IN NO WAY addresses the initial point I made of
> your God being the cosmic equivalent of a wifebeater. Well done Gump;
> way to try and avoid thinking about what I've said.
>
> However, I'll show you the courtesy you've failed to display, and
> address what you've said;
>
> We all deserve to go to hell for our sins?
Yes, we all fall short and have sinned, hence we all deserve eternal hell-fire. We ALL do.
And God is the Creator?
That He is.
> Presumably then, he created Hell to make us suffer.
Wrong, when He first Created the world there was no Hell. When Satan became a fallen angel, Hell was Created just for Satan. If man had never sinned, only the devil and his demons would be there.
"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41
So he created the
> torture before he gave us the chance to repent eh?
No.
Lets see if we've
> got this clear then; according to you, this loving God created a
> place specifically to make us suffer, then he said "But if you
> adore me, I won't send you there". That's not the act of a
> loving being. That's the act of a lunatic who craves adoration.
No, God Created Hell SOLEY for the devils and his angels as explained in Matthew, humans only began to join them after after the fall of man.
>
> Furthermore, this obsession that you have with sin. It's one more
> reason why I'm more and more convinced that I'm 100% correct to
> compare your particular brand of christian mindset with that of a
> battered wife. Let me explain further;
>
> In every case of domestic abuse I dealt with, the woman had always
> been told by her spouse that she'd done something terrible to make
> her deserve the beatings she received. However, because the maggoty
> little scumslug told her that he loved her, and it was that a love
> that stopped her receiving more beatings (which, after having been
> repeatedly told that she deserved them, she believed him. Despite not
> having any evidence of what she'd done to deserve it beyond "He
> says I deserve it"), the woman was left thinking that he must
> truly love her because she was an awful person who deserved to be
> beaten, yet he only did so when she 'misbehaved'.
>
> Now how is that even remotely different to the putrid and fearful
> philosophy that you're laughably referring to as God's 'unfailing
> love'?
Actually we ALL deserve to go to Hell. We are all sins and extremely serious and are compared to the colour of scarlet red, only Jesus can make them as white as snow.
"Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool." Isaiah 1:18
> Forest Fan wrote:
>
>
> If you are questioning the unfailing love of God, picture this. We
> are all sinners and deserve to go to Hell for our sins, but Jesus
> has
> given us a way out. Now, that is unfailing love.
>
>
> Wow...an answer that IN NO WAY addresses the initial point I made of
> your God being the cosmic equivalent of a wifebeater. Well done Gump;
> way to try and avoid thinking about what I've said.
>
> However, I'll show you the courtesy you've failed to display, and
> address what you've said;
>
> We all deserve to go to hell for our sins?
Yes, we all fall short and have sinned, hence we all deserve eternal hell-fire. We ALL do.
And God is the Creator?
That He is.
> Presumably then, he created Hell to make us suffer.
Wrong, when He first Created the world there was no Hell. When Satan became a fallen angel, Hell was Created just for Satan. If man had never sinned, only the devil and his demons would be there.
"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41
So he created the
> torture before he gave us the chance to repent eh?
No.
Lets see if we've
> got this clear then; according to you, this loving God created a
> place specifically to make us suffer, then he said "But if you
> adore me, I won't send you there". That's not the act of a
> loving being. That's the act of a lunatic who craves adoration.
No, God Created Hell SOLEY for the devils and his angels as explained in Matthew, humans only began to join them after after the fall of man.
>
> Furthermore, this obsession that you have with sin. It's one more
> reason why I'm more and more convinced that I'm 100% correct to
> compare your particular brand of christian mindset with that of a
> battered wife. Let me explain further;
>
> In every case of domestic abuse I dealt with, the woman had always
> been told by her spouse that she'd done something terrible to make
> her deserve the beatings she received. However, because the maggoty
> little scumslug told her that he loved her, and it was that a love
> that stopped her receiving more beatings (which, after having been
> repeatedly told that she deserved them, she believed him. Despite not
> having any evidence of what she'd done to deserve it beyond "He
> says I deserve it"), the woman was left thinking that he must
> truly love her because she was an awful person who deserved to be
> beaten, yet he only did so when she 'misbehaved'.
>
> Now how is that even remotely different to the putrid and fearful
> philosophy that you're laughably referring to as God's 'unfailing
> love'?
Actually we ALL deserve to go to Hell. We are all sins and extremely serious and are compared to the colour of scarlet red, only Jesus can make them as white as snow.
"Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool." Isaiah 1:18
Forest Fan wrote:
>
> If you are questioning the unfailing love of God, picture this. We
> are all sinners and deserve to go to Hell for our sins, but Jesus has
> given us a way out. Now, that is unfailing love.
Wow...an answer that IN NO WAY addresses the initial point I made of your God being the cosmic equivalent of a wifebeater. Well done Gump; way to try and avoid thinking about what I've said.
However, I'll show you the courtesy you've failed to display, and address what you've said;
We all deserve to go to hell for our sins? And God is the Creator? Presumably then, he created Hell to make us suffer. So he created the torture before he gave us the chance to repent eh? Lets see if we've got this clear then; according to you, this loving God created a place specifically to make us suffer, then he said "But if you adore me, I won't send you there". That's not the act of a loving being. That's the act of a lunatic who craves adoration.
Furthermore, this obsession that you have with sin. It's one more reason why I'm more and more convinced that I'm 100% correct to compare your particular brand of christian mindset with that of a battered wife. Let me explain further;
In every case of domestic abuse I dealt with, the woman had always been told by her spouse that she'd done something terrible to make her deserve the beatings she received. However, because the maggoty little scumslug told her that he loved her, and it was that a love that stopped her receiving more beatings (which, after having been repeatedly told that she deserved them, she believed him. Despite not having any evidence of what she'd done to deserve it beyond "He says I deserve it"), the woman was left thinking that he must truly love her because she was an awful person who deserved to be beaten, yet he only did so when she 'misbehaved'.
Now how is that even remotely different to the putrid and fearful philosophy that you're laughably referring to as God's 'unfailing love'?
>
> If you are questioning the unfailing love of God, picture this. We
> are all sinners and deserve to go to Hell for our sins, but Jesus has
> given us a way out. Now, that is unfailing love.
Wow...an answer that IN NO WAY addresses the initial point I made of your God being the cosmic equivalent of a wifebeater. Well done Gump; way to try and avoid thinking about what I've said.
However, I'll show you the courtesy you've failed to display, and address what you've said;
We all deserve to go to hell for our sins? And God is the Creator? Presumably then, he created Hell to make us suffer. So he created the torture before he gave us the chance to repent eh? Lets see if we've got this clear then; according to you, this loving God created a place specifically to make us suffer, then he said "But if you adore me, I won't send you there". That's not the act of a loving being. That's the act of a lunatic who craves adoration.
Furthermore, this obsession that you have with sin. It's one more reason why I'm more and more convinced that I'm 100% correct to compare your particular brand of christian mindset with that of a battered wife. Let me explain further;
In every case of domestic abuse I dealt with, the woman had always been told by her spouse that she'd done something terrible to make her deserve the beatings she received. However, because the maggoty little scumslug told her that he loved her, and it was that a love that stopped her receiving more beatings (which, after having been repeatedly told that she deserved them, she believed him. Despite not having any evidence of what she'd done to deserve it beyond "He says I deserve it"), the woman was left thinking that he must truly love her because she was an awful person who deserved to be beaten, yet he only did so when she 'misbehaved'.
Now how is that even remotely different to the putrid and fearful philosophy that you're laughably referring to as God's 'unfailing love'?
Light wrote:
> Nah, they haven't. But notice how everyone has bad things to say about
> YOU.
>
> Incidentally, you're avoiding addressing what I've said. What's up?
> Looking for a biblical quote to show that Gods love is conditional?
If you are questioning the unfailing love of God, picture this. We are all sinners and deserve to go to Hell for our sins, but Jesus has given us a way out. Now, that is unfailing love.
> Nah, they haven't. But notice how everyone has bad things to say about
> YOU.
>
> Incidentally, you're avoiding addressing what I've said. What's up?
> Looking for a biblical quote to show that Gods love is conditional?
If you are questioning the unfailing love of God, picture this. We are all sinners and deserve to go to Hell for our sins, but Jesus has given us a way out. Now, that is unfailing love.
Jackus wrote:
> Just a thought, but has anyone seen Belldandy around?
Whyfore? You thinking that Bell and Forest are one in the same? Hmm...nah, I don't think so personally. The style of writing is too different, and Bell could never go this long without some sort of "Aha! I fooled you all, so I MUST be great!" post.
> Just a thought, but has anyone seen Belldandy around?
Whyfore? You thinking that Bell and Forest are one in the same? Hmm...nah, I don't think so personally. The style of writing is too different, and Bell could never go this long without some sort of "Aha! I fooled you all, so I MUST be great!" post.
He left after erm.. replies to his topic in the Staffie forum.
Just a thought, but has anyone seen Belldandy around?
Nah, they haven't. But notice how everyone has bad things to say about YOU.
Incidentally, you're avoiding addressing what I've said. What's up? Looking for a biblical quote to show that Gods love is conditional?
Incidentally, you're avoiding addressing what I've said. What's up? Looking for a biblical quote to show that Gods love is conditional?
Everyone has.
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