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I heard two people talking about this the other night, and was wondering what you guys thought. Is being gay in your DNA, or is it 'acquired' through your life?
So yeh, enlighten me...
So yeh, enlighten me...
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Forest Fan wrote:
> Flockhart wrote:
> But isnt everything a sin, or do you have a extra special objection
> to homosexuality ?
>
> The difference with homosexuality, is many think it is not a sin.
> Unlike other sins, murder, rape or even just hate, many people think
> homosexuality isn't a sin, which is why Christians want to get their
> view across.
I'm technically a Christian, but I don't have that view. I have a gay friend and I don't hate him since he came out (we'd all worked out before then anyway). To be Christian is surely to be loving and forgiving, and not to hold bigated views?
> Flockhart wrote:
> But isnt everything a sin, or do you have a extra special objection
> to homosexuality ?
>
> The difference with homosexuality, is many think it is not a sin.
> Unlike other sins, murder, rape or even just hate, many people think
> homosexuality isn't a sin, which is why Christians want to get their
> view across.
I'm technically a Christian, but I don't have that view. I have a gay friend and I don't hate him since he came out (we'd all worked out before then anyway). To be Christian is surely to be loving and forgiving, and not to hold bigated views?
For someone to do something you consider wrong is bad enough, but for you to hate them because of what they choose, makes you even worse. Sinner!! oh, how I love that word
Forest Fan wrote:
> You can use that free-will and go to Heaven. In fact, if everyone did
> automatically go to Heaven, that would actually be taking away your
> free-will. God has given you free-will to choose either His Son or
> the world.
A) To qoute you: -
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Forest Fan
"SR P.48 - 'Crackpot'"
Regular stats
on 21/05/2004 at 8.41PM
My view is that God has predestined all."
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So we don't have free will according to you. If god has predestined all, he has already made our choice for us. That isn't free will. Squirm all you want, you have screwed up on this point.
b) www.evilbible.com
“Free Will”, You Say?
It is also written that I was given free will with which to choose if I will go to hell or not. How can you possibly deem something free when you must fear consequences? That completely conflicts with the definition of free. If I were to hold a gun to your head and say “you have free will to not give me your wallet, but if you attempt to defy me I will kill you.” Does it really feel as if you have a choice in the matter? Of course not. Free means to give or receive something with out an expectation of return. The whole free will concept is self defeating. Call it Circumstantial Will, for that is what it truly is.
Despite this, I have still had the displeasure of debating with those Christians who accept hell as a rational and fair wrath of god. They defend Jehovah’s creation of hell with the opinion that those who are committed to hell go voluntary, as if it is a consequence rather then a punishment. That indeed, we as children of god, chose rather to be hell’s inmates then god’s disciples in heaven. It’s an interesting idea. However, you don’t have to hurt anyone to get into Hell. All it takes, according to Scripture, is knowing about Jesus and not accepting him as Savior. It doesn’t matter how virtuous you are, how much good you do, how happy an environment you create for others. Given this, the voluntary entry argument doesn’t make sense. The same argument could be used to justify the sending of Aryan opponents of Nazism to concentration camps: they voluntarily chose not to give homage to Hitler, so they chose to be interred. Why should we blame the Nazis for the inmates’ choice? Why should we blame god for the choice of the damned?"
> You can use that free-will and go to Heaven. In fact, if everyone did
> automatically go to Heaven, that would actually be taking away your
> free-will. God has given you free-will to choose either His Son or
> the world.
A) To qoute you: -
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Forest Fan
"SR P.48 - 'Crackpot'"
Regular stats
on 21/05/2004 at 8.41PM
My view is that God has predestined all."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
So we don't have free will according to you. If god has predestined all, he has already made our choice for us. That isn't free will. Squirm all you want, you have screwed up on this point.
b) www.evilbible.com
“Free Will”, You Say?
It is also written that I was given free will with which to choose if I will go to hell or not. How can you possibly deem something free when you must fear consequences? That completely conflicts with the definition of free. If I were to hold a gun to your head and say “you have free will to not give me your wallet, but if you attempt to defy me I will kill you.” Does it really feel as if you have a choice in the matter? Of course not. Free means to give or receive something with out an expectation of return. The whole free will concept is self defeating. Call it Circumstantial Will, for that is what it truly is.
Despite this, I have still had the displeasure of debating with those Christians who accept hell as a rational and fair wrath of god. They defend Jehovah’s creation of hell with the opinion that those who are committed to hell go voluntary, as if it is a consequence rather then a punishment. That indeed, we as children of god, chose rather to be hell’s inmates then god’s disciples in heaven. It’s an interesting idea. However, you don’t have to hurt anyone to get into Hell. All it takes, according to Scripture, is knowing about Jesus and not accepting him as Savior. It doesn’t matter how virtuous you are, how much good you do, how happy an environment you create for others. Given this, the voluntary entry argument doesn’t make sense. The same argument could be used to justify the sending of Aryan opponents of Nazism to concentration camps: they voluntarily chose not to give homage to Hitler, so they chose to be interred. Why should we blame the Nazis for the inmates’ choice? Why should we blame god for the choice of the damned?"
Strafio wrote:
> I personally think that there's a little more choice than that.
>
> I mean the whole "live life my way or burn in hell" seems
> pretty simple minded and pettilly ego-driven for a God so supposedly
> great.
> But each to their own part of the elephant! ;-P
>
> Besides, Jesus never condemned homosexuality personally (I heard
> somewhere that it was Paul who did that) and just told people to love
> one another.
> So I think I heard somewhere... :-)
Leviticus 18:22, "You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination." Straight from God.
> I personally think that there's a little more choice than that.
>
> I mean the whole "live life my way or burn in hell" seems
> pretty simple minded and pettilly ego-driven for a God so supposedly
> great.
> But each to their own part of the elephant! ;-P
>
> Besides, Jesus never condemned homosexuality personally (I heard
> somewhere that it was Paul who did that) and just told people to love
> one another.
> So I think I heard somewhere... :-)
Leviticus 18:22, "You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination." Straight from God.
I personally think that there's a little more choice than that.
I mean the whole "live life my way or burn in hell" seems pretty simple minded and pettilly ego-driven for a God so supposedly great.
But each to their own part of the elephant! ;-P
Besides, Jesus never condemned homosexuality personally (I heard somewhere that it was Paul who did that) and just told people to love one another.
So I think I heard somewhere... :-)
I mean the whole "live life my way or burn in hell" seems pretty simple minded and pettilly ego-driven for a God so supposedly great.
But each to their own part of the elephant! ;-P
Besides, Jesus never condemned homosexuality personally (I heard somewhere that it was Paul who did that) and just told people to love one another.
So I think I heard somewhere... :-)
Sibs wrote:
> What's the point in giving us free-will to do anything when if we use
> that free-will we're going to be sent to hell?
You can use that free-will and go to Heaven. In fact, if everyone did automatically go to Heaven, that would actually be taking away your free-will. God has given you free-will to choose either His Son or the world.
> What's the point in giving us free-will to do anything when if we use
> that free-will we're going to be sent to hell?
You can use that free-will and go to Heaven. In fact, if everyone did automatically go to Heaven, that would actually be taking away your free-will. God has given you free-will to choose either His Son or the world.
It is actually frowned upon by the almighty frowner.
There you go, Forest. I have saved you the need to quote both all of Angel's message and lots from the bible.
I'm a saint, no?
There you go, Forest. I have saved you the need to quote both all of Angel's message and lots from the bible.
I'm a saint, no?
Forest Fan wrote:
> It is doing something disgusting. God created man for woman, however
> by man disobeying this and breaking this natural bond, to go off with
> other men or animals, is sinning, because it is breaking God's Word.
Where does it say that man is for woman, who's right is it to tell us who we can and cannot be with. Im not one for believing in God but im sure that same sex relationships are not a sin. What does so called God excpect from us, to be unhappy to please him, or be with people we want to be with no matter what sex and live a happy life.
> It is doing something disgusting. God created man for woman, however
> by man disobeying this and breaking this natural bond, to go off with
> other men or animals, is sinning, because it is breaking God's Word.
Where does it say that man is for woman, who's right is it to tell us who we can and cannot be with. Im not one for believing in God but im sure that same sex relationships are not a sin. What does so called God excpect from us, to be unhappy to please him, or be with people we want to be with no matter what sex and live a happy life.
Forest Fan wrote:
> And that's free-will. Actually if you thought about it and truly
> understood God's hate for sin (including homosexuality), it is a
> miracle He still loves us. If God wasn't all loving, He would program
> us to serve Him, but He hasn't, He has given us free-will and that is
> what the homosexuals and everyone else abuse.
What's the point in giving us free-will to do anything when if we use that free-will we're going to be sent to hell?
> And that's free-will. Actually if you thought about it and truly
> understood God's hate for sin (including homosexuality), it is a
> miracle He still loves us. If God wasn't all loving, He would program
> us to serve Him, but He hasn't, He has given us free-will and that is
> what the homosexuals and everyone else abuse.
What's the point in giving us free-will to do anything when if we use that free-will we're going to be sent to hell?
Azul wrote:
> H²O wrote:
> and run away in to the distance
>
> You'd be a bloody talented kid if you did.
>
> So i think you only become gay if your hormones go wrong.
>
> Oh dear, oh dear.
> Oh dear.
Got a problem with me calling you wrong?
> H²O wrote:
> and run away in to the distance
>
> You'd be a bloody talented kid if you did.
>
> So i think you only become gay if your hormones go wrong.
>
> Oh dear, oh dear.
> Oh dear.
Got a problem with me calling you wrong?
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