Viewing Thread:
"Honor System..."

Yes, another WoW thread, go away.

So, this honor system? I've been reading the WoW forums, I can't post there for some reason, my login isn't accepted... Anyway, I have to say, it's re-iterated my belief that people online are 95% moronic. You get some people moaning and wanting to quit, others going 'it's pvp!!!!' and a few with brains in the middle being a bit rational.

I have been killed many times. I have been over powered by level ?? in groups, when I've been by myself. I've been fighting 2/3 monsters, and had a level 40 come up and help himself. I've had people see me, run off and come back with help.

They are whining at Blizzard on the forums. They seem to think their behaviour is entirely justified because Blizzard haven't done things exactly right. They're idiots. I want to play PvP - I realise that the world is a world of war. That does not excuse people being morons who have no notion of fun except their own geek needs. I KNOW it's a war - but for gods sake, it's also a game.

I like pvp - I've had some great fun. It'd just be nice if people would just stop for a second and realise that they are ruining it at times. I've got really annoyed (as guild members can testify ;) ) at idiots just ruining my game because they need to kill a player many levels below them, or they need to gang up and attack because they get 1 HK. I spared several lower levels today because I know how annoying it is - and when a horde starts on me, I give as good as I get, obviously, and often better, because I rule :D

I think this sums it up best - earlier, up in Arathi, I come across a same level Tauren fighthing a high level mob. I help kill it, and he runs off. I wave and go about my business. Half dead from fighting another 1/2, I could of done without him coming back and killing me. Idiots. Anyway, it's pvp, you can't expect everyone to be half witted.....AND people say 'oh ganking's fun!'. Erm, how? How is it fun? Grow up and give people a chance to play the game.

Meh, rant over. And stop raiding idiots! IT DOESN'T HELP YOU!

Meh, I've not met a Warlock/Felhunter combo. If I do, I'll still win, so there. Or I'll run in fear.

Was just at Southshore, another massive, massive battle. I managed to take on a few ?? and get some damage, and got a few shared kills - not much CP I expect. Then I sat about and espied 2 similar level mages. Chased them and got one, then a ?? came and made me cry.

Was fun, but laggy as hell. I wanted to do a Q, but there was sod all point trying.

Cycloon wrote:
> Hunter suck.

Just, die. I don't suck and i'm a hunter. You suck and you're a priest. :P

Hunters are ok I suppose.

But there are too many of them.

Although Dave the wonder pet did well today.

Yeah, Dave helped kill a Horde whilst I was attacked as I sat downstairs having a fag.

This honour system is really hurting the game in my opinion - its encouraging huge raiding parties and prevents you from playing.
What I love about WoW is you can play it how you want to, fight if you wish or quest if you wish.
I *was* happy being on a PvP server until this system was introduced because it kept you on your toes. Occasionally you'd meet a couple of Horde and you'd wave before going about your business.
Sure there were raids and I was killed in a few, or was slaughtered by a gang roaming around. I accept that as part of PvP.

HOWEVER...since the introduction of honour points, it's near impossible to quest with any degree of success outside of controlled territory.
I went to Booty Bay today to start some quests there.
I arrive by hearthstone and leave the inn....killed instantly by 3 lv?? Horde. They're not attacked by the goblins as per usual.
I think "Wtf?..." and run back from the graveyard to my body. I resurrect and head towards the exit, killed 3 more times by the same lv??
I didnt stand a chance. They killed the gryphon master so nobody could leave and promptly butchered any Alliance in the town, despite the massive differences in levels.
It's made Stranglevale a no-go area for questing, because top-end Horde are running around killing every single person regardless of rank, presumably because they'll occasionally come across another high-ranked Alliance.
Same with Astranaar. I left town to finish a quest I meant to do earlier and was set upon by 2 lv?? Horde who corpse camped me for the better part of 10 minutes.

It appears that what used to be a risky area has been made an avoid-completely place because idiots are killing everything and everyone on the off chance they earn a point from it.
It appears, from my play since the system intro, that most people have abandoned the notion of quests and enjoying the game and turned it into little more than Elvish Counterstrike.
It's now a pursuit of killstats instead of the pursuit of fun.

And before anybody starts screaming "But it's PvP!!!!!!", you're missing the point. Go back and read it again.
I like PvP, it adds a challenge.
What I dont like is having the option to play at my own pace and style taken away because I'm too busy trying to run from stat-hungry assheads intent on killing everything.

The WoW site defines dishonourable as:
"Corpse camping (attempting to wait for a defeated foe to respawn so you can kill him again in his weakened resurrected state), killing players engaged with one or more NPCs, crushing players extremely far below your level, waiting by the graveyard to ambush enemies using the spirit healer, and using victory emotes excessively are examples of actions that may be considered dishonorable."

Yet this has been standard behavior since the system has been introduced.
I dont have a problem being killed by same/near levels, ask Cycloon.
We were both murdered today by a 35 Shaman, he fought well and was simply better than us. It happens and that's PvP that I accept and enjoy.
And by the same token, we passed 3 Orcs that were between 10-12 levels below us. Did we attack? Nope, we danced and cheered before leaving.
Because it's no fun fighting somebody that doesn't stand a chance.
But the lack of penalty for dishonour means anybody is open to attack from any level in any size group.

I'm struggling to enjoy this game for the 1st time since I played it, and that makes me sad

Logged back on, ran around Desolace, met two ?? Taurens.

/golfclap was in order as they rooted me down and killed me in 2 hits.

Goatboy wrote:
> I'm struggling to enjoy this game for the 1st time since I played it,
> and that makes me sad

Good points.

Hopefully the Battlegrounds patch will stop this type of thing happening so much, but until then...

I'm not finding it any different, but then, I'm lvl 28... As soon as I need to get to heavily fought after areas, I'll re-evaluate.

Some areas like Goldshire, Stormwind, Darnassus etc are fine and for lower level players there's no issue.
But the moment you progress beyond around, I'd say, 25 and need to start taking big xp/reward quests - you have to travel to contested areas.

Previously this meant you were on your guard, as there was a good chance you'd encounter Horde and they may attack you. This is what PvP is about to me, the possibility of being attacked whilst roaming. It adds spice and an element of danger to things, as it should do.
But what happens now is you travel to further flung regions in order to gain xp to increase your character, but you will be attacked on sight simply because they can earn a point for doing so. And I've yet to see a group of less than 5 people roaming looking for kills.
As I've said previous, I've had encounters whilst questing where Horde have appeared. But there was always the possibility if you were lower level or there were many more of them that they wouldn't attack - hence the kneel or salute situations where you appeal to their honour in sparing you.
Sometimes it worked, sometimes they buried you - resulting in a mild cursing as you ran back to your corpse and continued where you left off.

Now, however, if you meet a Horde the same/slightly above or below you then he's going to attack.
Why? Because there is an incentive to do so now, before it was just the satisfaction of smacking somebody's avatar in some bizarre online-world egoboost.
But there are actual item rewards for attacking on sight now, so why bother letting somebody go? That person 5 levels below you quietly trying to finish a quest he's been on for 2hrs could very well earn you a piece of armour right? He's going down and who cares because it's PvP anyway and they shouldn't be on here.

Now that there is a reward for butchering, actual character gains to be had for hunting people down - how long before we start seeing hacks/cheating?
Because as soon as you place a reward for an action, those uberl33t types that do nothing but play Counterstrike/WoW/Everquest/Whatever are going to look for exploits.

Previous to this honour system, the aim of the game was to progress how you saw fit. If you wanted to be an artisan that made their way through trade you could. If you wanted to be maniac uberwarlord that kills at will you could. If you wanted to take fantastically created and implemented quests with the danger of being attacked if you weren't careful, you could.
There weren't massive groups of people roaming with the specific intention of killing on sight, because there was no directly related reward for doing so.
The Honour System, ironically, encourages dishonourable behaviour in the lust to be the 1st person to gain the reward so you can preen and lord it above other players.

PvP does not mean being constantly massacred by lv?? gangs who aren't interested in anything other than obtaining some magic armour to show off in.
Alas, it appears that WoW has taken a turn for the worse with this new system and I can only hope that it gets remedied soon because I'm not keen on spending a subscription fee to feel frustrated and angry.

Those damn hordes.

The equivilent, monkey, is playing CS and suddenly finding it's just you by yourself and 12 opponents coming after you.
Except you only have a knife and they have auto-shotguns. And your bomb doesn't work. And they're using hacks.

It's that level of frustration to see a previously faultless example of gaming joy turned into yet another online pursuit ruined by "STFU NOOB!!!" types that delight in increasing their self worth by annihilating players several levels below them.

Eg

2 level 46+ Horde.

In a town.

Where there are 10/15 level 20s.

By the rate they cut us all down, they were level 60.

Over and over and over and over and over.