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Follow this link to see the new proposed Union Flag, to bring the UK into the modern era.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2981038.stm
I think it's wrong to change such a huge piece of our history. Views?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2981038.stm
I think it's wrong to change such a huge piece of our history. Views?
Page:
"My daddy died for that flag."
"Really? I bought mine."
"Really? I bought mine."
Actually during the world cup we use the St georges flag.
The thing I dont get is why there should be any black in it, as i havn't seen an african country flag as a black man scrawled across the flag. This idea is just totally stupid... What if martians come? Should we put green on it?
I think it looks good
You do have a point, but the part I was responding to was
"Why don't you go live under a despotic government in a third world nation?
Quit complaining damn you."
Ultimately, I couldnt care less what the flag looks like, because at the end of the day it's only ever on display during the World Cup for 2 weeks before England gets knocked out again.
Have a purple one with massive winkys on for all I care
"Why don't you go live under a despotic government in a third world nation?
Quit complaining damn you."
Ultimately, I couldnt care less what the flag looks like, because at the end of the day it's only ever on display during the World Cup for 2 weeks before England gets knocked out again.
Have a purple one with massive winkys on for all I care
Goatboy wrote:
> Protoss wrote:
> Why don't you run for government and stop complaining about our
> country.
> ---
>
> How do you know what I do when I dont post on here?
> So, just so I'm right here - we shouldn't complain about a system that
> produces incredibly high rates of illiteracy amongst young people,
> despite a free schooling system and teachers that do a huge job for
> little reward?
> We shouldnt complain about a government that waged war on laughable
> evidence and refuses to sanction an enquiry?
> We shouldn't criticise a country where inanity is pursued with
> relentless glee and lustful abandonment?
>
I think you're taking out of context what he wrote really and what he was responding to. If you read the posts in this thread, some people would have you believe the UK is a terrible place to live and everything is going wrong. Like Protoss, I do find it somewhat frustrating to read when people suggest such things. As despite its problems, the UK is still a good place to live generally.
We still enjoy many benefits the vast majority of the world don't have. As a nation we do achieve alot and yes I do think we have much to be proud of.
That doesn't mean we should ignore problems or think they don't matter as much but I do think when speaking in general terms, we should keep some perspective.
Ultimately, I think the kind of attitude that shown itself in this thread is self destructive.
> Protoss wrote:
> Why don't you run for government and stop complaining about our
> country.
> ---
>
> How do you know what I do when I dont post on here?
> So, just so I'm right here - we shouldn't complain about a system that
> produces incredibly high rates of illiteracy amongst young people,
> despite a free schooling system and teachers that do a huge job for
> little reward?
> We shouldnt complain about a government that waged war on laughable
> evidence and refuses to sanction an enquiry?
> We shouldn't criticise a country where inanity is pursued with
> relentless glee and lustful abandonment?
>
I think you're taking out of context what he wrote really and what he was responding to. If you read the posts in this thread, some people would have you believe the UK is a terrible place to live and everything is going wrong. Like Protoss, I do find it somewhat frustrating to read when people suggest such things. As despite its problems, the UK is still a good place to live generally.
We still enjoy many benefits the vast majority of the world don't have. As a nation we do achieve alot and yes I do think we have much to be proud of.
That doesn't mean we should ignore problems or think they don't matter as much but I do think when speaking in general terms, we should keep some perspective.
Ultimately, I think the kind of attitude that shown itself in this thread is self destructive.
Changing the subject slightly... Goatboy's post reminded me of the Tory campaign for Scottish Parliament elections in May
They had a billboard up that said something like
" A third of 14 year olds in Scotland cannot read and write effieciently "
Or something like that, blaming Labour
BUT
That also means 6/7 years ago when the Conservatives were in power a third of 7 years old couldn't read or wirte efficiently. And what age do you learn to read and write?
Knobs
Oh yeah... I drew a flag with my knob on it. Knobland.
They had a billboard up that said something like
" A third of 14 year olds in Scotland cannot read and write effieciently "
Or something like that, blaming Labour
BUT
That also means 6/7 years ago when the Conservatives were in power a third of 7 years old couldn't read or wirte efficiently. And what age do you learn to read and write?
Knobs
Oh yeah... I drew a flag with my knob on it. Knobland.
Protoss wrote:
> Why don't you run for government and stop complaining about our
> country.
---
How do you know what I do when I dont post on here?
So, just so I'm right here - we shouldn't complain about a system that produces incredibly high rates of illiteracy amongst young people, despite a free schooling system and teachers that do a huge job for little reward?
We shouldnt complain about a government that waged war on laughable evidence and refuses to sanction an enquiry?
We shouldn't criticise a country where inanity is pursued with relentless glee and lustful abandonment?
You say if we dont like it, move?
That's a lot more of a despot attitude than you like to think my man.
One of the beautiful things about living in a so-called democracy is the inherent right to criticise and the duty to ensure things remain at a decent level.
By your reckoning, we should all sit back and swallow things we find abhorrent? We should allow governments to take away basic priviliges (right to trial by jury etc) and not say anything?
We should not protest and campaign against issues that we find offensive?
We should just sit meekly indoors playing video games and watching Who Wants to Waste a Lifetime?
Yeah, sure.
> Why don't you run for government and stop complaining about our
> country.
---
How do you know what I do when I dont post on here?
So, just so I'm right here - we shouldn't complain about a system that produces incredibly high rates of illiteracy amongst young people, despite a free schooling system and teachers that do a huge job for little reward?
We shouldnt complain about a government that waged war on laughable evidence and refuses to sanction an enquiry?
We shouldn't criticise a country where inanity is pursued with relentless glee and lustful abandonment?
You say if we dont like it, move?
That's a lot more of a despot attitude than you like to think my man.
One of the beautiful things about living in a so-called democracy is the inherent right to criticise and the duty to ensure things remain at a decent level.
By your reckoning, we should all sit back and swallow things we find abhorrent? We should allow governments to take away basic priviliges (right to trial by jury etc) and not say anything?
We should not protest and campaign against issues that we find offensive?
We should just sit meekly indoors playing video games and watching Who Wants to Waste a Lifetime?
Yeah, sure.
They wont change the flag at all.
It's another pointless hysteria whipping news story.
"The proposed new flag (see above) is the work of Nigel Turner, an enthusiastic fan of the UK's transformation into a multiracial society over the past 50 years."
Joe Public did a drawing and likes it.
End of story.
It's another pointless hysteria whipping news story.
"The proposed new flag (see above) is the work of Nigel Turner, an enthusiastic fan of the UK's transformation into a multiracial society over the past 50 years."
Joe Public did a drawing and likes it.
End of story.
Whitestripes DX wrote:
> No other country in the world would change it's flag because of the
> changing % of racial types.
>
> Take any black country and make 50% of it's population white, somehow
> I don't think they'd go splashing white bits all over the flag.
Spot-on, my friend.
Why not just change it to this:
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/j/jm.gif
A similar design, and no white whatsoever. A few more decades, and it'll be perfect!
Seriously, though, this is just another example of loony lefties/liberals trying to appease the minorities using methods highly likely to infuriate the white people of the country, and create more problems than it solves.
So the flag in its current form is used by racists. Big deal. Don't change it - reclaim it! Take the symbolism back from them. No, I don't know how, but they've twisted it, so let's twist it back.
As others have said, what about the Asians? They're not black. And the Orientals - not black either. And the many non-English white people, what do we use to represent them? After all, you can't *just* cater for black people - that's racist in itself. And can you imagine a red, white, blue, black, brown and yellow Union Flag?
I like this quote from the page linked in the original post:
"I was born and brought up in the UK, am 23 and of Indian decent. I am appalled at this proposal. We are multicultural, and what makes us so is the people, not the flag we fly. The union jack is part of our heritage, our past and it should be a part of our future.
Anita Patel, UK"
That just about says it all. If the "immigrants" (for want of a better term) can see that, why the hell can't the natives? Don't these people have better things to do with their time and our money?
The flag is almost 400 years old and has a lot of history to go with it. We should be proud of it. The fact that Brits themselves are the ones considering changing it makes me sick.
Let's move a stack of white people to a predominantly non-white country and ask them to change their flag to reflect the changing culture, and see what reaction we get there.
Stupid example, but you know what I mean.
No other country in the world would consider such a change over such a trivial matter, and neither should we. Events like the fall of the Berlin Wall are the sort of occasions where new flags are required - not this.
Mr Snuggly wrote:
> How many of you actually gave a crap about the Union Jack before
> someone threatened to change it?
The response here alone seems to indicate that quite a few people DO give a crap about it. The reason you don't have people talking about the flag or waving it around on a daily basis is that we're not that sort of nation, unlike the US and some others. But that doesn't mean that Brits don't give a damn. It's times like this when you realise just how many people DO give a toss.
> I see no problem here, if they want to change it to represent the
> multi-cultural nature of our country, where's the beef?
The colours on the flag come from the merging of the English, Scottish and Irish flags in 1606, and that's all there is to it. That's why it's red, white and blue - black wasn't excluded on any racial grounds, and race shouldn't be brought into it now.
The colours are purely representative of the colours of the flags of the member nations of the Union, and not the skin colour of the people who live here, so why should black be introduced at all?
In fact, since when were the colours of ANY national flag representative of the skin colours of the population?
What's next, "Dreadlock Holiday" as the National Anthem? (Though it would be an improvement!)
And besides, it looks absolutely s**t with black in it. Reminiscent of the Swastika - at least to me.
If there were no white in the Union Flag, would we even be having this discussion? Would this move even have been considered? Probably not.
> No other country in the world would change it's flag because of the
> changing % of racial types.
>
> Take any black country and make 50% of it's population white, somehow
> I don't think they'd go splashing white bits all over the flag.
Spot-on, my friend.
Why not just change it to this:
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/j/jm.gif
A similar design, and no white whatsoever. A few more decades, and it'll be perfect!
Seriously, though, this is just another example of loony lefties/liberals trying to appease the minorities using methods highly likely to infuriate the white people of the country, and create more problems than it solves.
So the flag in its current form is used by racists. Big deal. Don't change it - reclaim it! Take the symbolism back from them. No, I don't know how, but they've twisted it, so let's twist it back.
As others have said, what about the Asians? They're not black. And the Orientals - not black either. And the many non-English white people, what do we use to represent them? After all, you can't *just* cater for black people - that's racist in itself. And can you imagine a red, white, blue, black, brown and yellow Union Flag?
I like this quote from the page linked in the original post:
"I was born and brought up in the UK, am 23 and of Indian decent. I am appalled at this proposal. We are multicultural, and what makes us so is the people, not the flag we fly. The union jack is part of our heritage, our past and it should be a part of our future.
Anita Patel, UK"
That just about says it all. If the "immigrants" (for want of a better term) can see that, why the hell can't the natives? Don't these people have better things to do with their time and our money?
The flag is almost 400 years old and has a lot of history to go with it. We should be proud of it. The fact that Brits themselves are the ones considering changing it makes me sick.
Let's move a stack of white people to a predominantly non-white country and ask them to change their flag to reflect the changing culture, and see what reaction we get there.
Stupid example, but you know what I mean.
No other country in the world would consider such a change over such a trivial matter, and neither should we. Events like the fall of the Berlin Wall are the sort of occasions where new flags are required - not this.
Mr Snuggly wrote:
> How many of you actually gave a crap about the Union Jack before
> someone threatened to change it?
The response here alone seems to indicate that quite a few people DO give a crap about it. The reason you don't have people talking about the flag or waving it around on a daily basis is that we're not that sort of nation, unlike the US and some others. But that doesn't mean that Brits don't give a damn. It's times like this when you realise just how many people DO give a toss.
> I see no problem here, if they want to change it to represent the
> multi-cultural nature of our country, where's the beef?
The colours on the flag come from the merging of the English, Scottish and Irish flags in 1606, and that's all there is to it. That's why it's red, white and blue - black wasn't excluded on any racial grounds, and race shouldn't be brought into it now.
The colours are purely representative of the colours of the flags of the member nations of the Union, and not the skin colour of the people who live here, so why should black be introduced at all?
In fact, since when were the colours of ANY national flag representative of the skin colours of the population?
What's next, "Dreadlock Holiday" as the National Anthem? (Though it would be an improvement!)
And besides, it looks absolutely s**t with black in it. Reminiscent of the Swastika - at least to me.
If there were no white in the Union Flag, would we even be having this discussion? Would this move even have been considered? Probably not.
Page: