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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2842093.stm
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Men held at Camp X-Ray, an American base since 2001.
Their lawyers demand they be charged, as they have been held without any claims made against them for over a year now.
America's response?
"It's not US soil, they're not covered by our Constitution"
This is the base where 2 "prisoners" died from "blunt force trauma" and the Medical Examiner ruled they had been beaten to death by US interrogators.
But hey, those weapons of mass destruction eh?
----
Men held at Camp X-Ray, an American base since 2001.
Their lawyers demand they be charged, as they have been held without any claims made against them for over a year now.
America's response?
"It's not US soil, they're not covered by our Constitution"
This is the base where 2 "prisoners" died from "blunt force trauma" and the Medical Examiner ruled they had been beaten to death by US interrogators.
But hey, those weapons of mass destruction eh?
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Light wrote:
> Which makes them POW, which gives them rights. However, thanks to
> legal sophistry that Bill Clinton would be proud of, they've been
> denied this status and so denied rights that even the Nazi's gave
> their opponents in combat.
Yeah, the Nazi's gave loads of their POW's rights...once they made it to the POW camps. Plus if you were Russian then you were basically less than human so you didn't count. Oh, and if you were Jewish, and Polish, and e.t.c. And let's not even start on the German's allies the Japanese....
Strangely, if the law says it is possible to do what America is doing then it can, because it's the law. It's not ideal, or right, but that can be said for many things. Personally I'd like to know the location of about 600 Gulf War POW's whom Iraq has "lost". At least everyone knows where these guys are, and I think a case where 600 people have vanished without trace is far more deserving, but then again it isn't America that's held them, so I guess that makes it less deserving for some...... I also suspect that the only way we'll be tracing any of them is with a shovel and DNA matching.
I won't reply to the rest of the points, not because I can't, but because it'd end in the usual volley of posts which bores everyone, suffice to say I think you are looking at this in a blinkered way.
> Which makes them POW, which gives them rights. However, thanks to
> legal sophistry that Bill Clinton would be proud of, they've been
> denied this status and so denied rights that even the Nazi's gave
> their opponents in combat.
Yeah, the Nazi's gave loads of their POW's rights...once they made it to the POW camps. Plus if you were Russian then you were basically less than human so you didn't count. Oh, and if you were Jewish, and Polish, and e.t.c. And let's not even start on the German's allies the Japanese....
Strangely, if the law says it is possible to do what America is doing then it can, because it's the law. It's not ideal, or right, but that can be said for many things. Personally I'd like to know the location of about 600 Gulf War POW's whom Iraq has "lost". At least everyone knows where these guys are, and I think a case where 600 people have vanished without trace is far more deserving, but then again it isn't America that's held them, so I guess that makes it less deserving for some...... I also suspect that the only way we'll be tracing any of them is with a shovel and DNA matching.
I won't reply to the rest of the points, not because I can't, but because it'd end in the usual volley of posts which bores everyone, suffice to say I think you are looking at this in a blinkered way.
No I don't.
If I've learned anything in my two year stint on these forums, it's that I don't have to respond to every single attempt to get an irritated response out of me.
Move along, move along.
If I've learned anything in my two year stint on these forums, it's that I don't have to respond to every single attempt to get an irritated response out of me.
Move along, move along.
Insane Bartender wrote:
>
> And don't try to argue with me just because you've won Belldandy.
> Passion is easy to manipulate, I have very little of it.
Heh. You can always tell if someone is riled; they say "Don't try and argue with me about/because of...."
Always a sure sign that someone can't think of a proper retort....
Hey, c'mon; I have to at least *try*!
>
> And don't try to argue with me just because you've won Belldandy.
> Passion is easy to manipulate, I have very little of it.
Heh. You can always tell if someone is riled; they say "Don't try and argue with me about/because of...."
Always a sure sign that someone can't think of a proper retort....
Hey, c'mon; I have to at least *try*!
Star Fury wrote:
>
> Okay, so America gets these people, detains them on rented land.
> They're Afghani's mainly yes ? Has Afghanistan asked for them to be
> released ? Not that I'm aware of. The news story Goatboy posted was
> about the non Afghani's trying to challenge the legality of this, not
> the Afghani's. In most cases individuals who were detained had been in
> combat, they could have laid down weapons and stopped, but they
> fought, and this is an unfortunate consequence of throwing in their
> lot with the Taliban.
Which makes them POW, which gives them rights. However, thanks to legal sophistry that Bill Clinton would be proud of, they've been denied this status and so denied rights that even the Nazi's gave their opponents in combat.
>
> As the situation stands no country is particularly bothered because at
> the very least those people fought against allied forces in
> Afghanistan. Yes, some may be innocent, but that's waht John Walker
> Lindh said too. It's not right to withhold trials, but there's far
> worse injustices going on right now.
So...because there is worse stuff going on, this should be ignored? Also you say no country is ignored; how come this issue has been raised by the British consulate then?
I made a point further down this thread that we couldn't condemn the Taliban quick enough for doing what the US are doing. And they at least kept their foreign prisoners in good conditions and didn't actually beat any of 'em to death.
> People - and I'm not saying you because you haven't commented on this
> - say they don't want America to the the sole superpower, because it
> lets them do things like this.
The idea of a sole superpower (ANY sole superpower) is NOT one that guarantees security; look at the Roman Empire and the British Empire. You made the point a while ago that "peace is not the absence of war". Well, both of these empires might laughably claim they brought peace to the world. History proves they're lying. They ruled in much the same way as the US are doing now that they are the big boy in the playground, and when their inevitable fall came, it led to a dark age in one instance, world war in another.
Call me an idealist, but the whole idea of one nation buttf*cking another is ridiculous anyway. To quote a better man, "It was a round world the last time I checked."
>
> Okay, so America gets these people, detains them on rented land.
> They're Afghani's mainly yes ? Has Afghanistan asked for them to be
> released ? Not that I'm aware of. The news story Goatboy posted was
> about the non Afghani's trying to challenge the legality of this, not
> the Afghani's. In most cases individuals who were detained had been in
> combat, they could have laid down weapons and stopped, but they
> fought, and this is an unfortunate consequence of throwing in their
> lot with the Taliban.
Which makes them POW, which gives them rights. However, thanks to legal sophistry that Bill Clinton would be proud of, they've been denied this status and so denied rights that even the Nazi's gave their opponents in combat.
>
> As the situation stands no country is particularly bothered because at
> the very least those people fought against allied forces in
> Afghanistan. Yes, some may be innocent, but that's waht John Walker
> Lindh said too. It's not right to withhold trials, but there's far
> worse injustices going on right now.
So...because there is worse stuff going on, this should be ignored? Also you say no country is ignored; how come this issue has been raised by the British consulate then?
I made a point further down this thread that we couldn't condemn the Taliban quick enough for doing what the US are doing. And they at least kept their foreign prisoners in good conditions and didn't actually beat any of 'em to death.
> People - and I'm not saying you because you haven't commented on this
> - say they don't want America to the the sole superpower, because it
> lets them do things like this.
The idea of a sole superpower (ANY sole superpower) is NOT one that guarantees security; look at the Roman Empire and the British Empire. You made the point a while ago that "peace is not the absence of war". Well, both of these empires might laughably claim they brought peace to the world. History proves they're lying. They ruled in much the same way as the US are doing now that they are the big boy in the playground, and when their inevitable fall came, it led to a dark age in one instance, world war in another.
Call me an idealist, but the whole idea of one nation buttf*cking another is ridiculous anyway. To quote a better man, "It was a round world the last time I checked."
I don't hate terrorism. It's the causes behind it that I usually disagree with.
You are a tool
Prisoners @ camp x-ray are a shower of terrorists. They deserve this- The Americans sure know how to punish murdering wazzocks. Not that I'm a sadist or anything- I hate TERRORISM.
To see an american view:
http://www.stickdeath.com/qcamup.html
http://www.stickdeath.com/qcamfin.html
http://www.stickdeath.com/martyr.html
http://www.stickdeath.com/talibloop.html
NOTE: Don't go on these unless you really hate terrorism. they're a bit...erm...bloody.
To see an american view:
http://www.stickdeath.com/qcamup.html
http://www.stickdeath.com/qcamfin.html
http://www.stickdeath.com/martyr.html
http://www.stickdeath.com/talibloop.html
NOTE: Don't go on these unless you really hate terrorism. they're a bit...erm...bloody.
Light wrote:
> Buy hey, it's okay because the Americans must have, like, REALLY good
> reasons for this, right?
>
> Yes, that's right; don't question what the big boys do. Just keep your
> head down and pretend that it doesn't matter.
Okay, so America gets these people, detains them on rented land. They're Afghani's mainly yes ? Has Afghanistan asked for them to be released ? Not that I'm aware of. The news story Goatboy posted was about the non Afghani's trying to challenge the legality of this, not the Afghani's. In most cases individuals who were detained had been in combat, they could have laid down weapons and stopped, but they fought, and this is an unfortunate consequence of throwing in their lot with the Taliban.
As the situation stands no country is particularly bothered because at the very least those people fought against allied forces in Afghanistan. Yes, some may be innocent, but that's waht John Walker Lindh said too. It's not right to withhold trials, but there's far worse injustices going on right now.
People - and I'm not saying you because you haven't commented on this - say they don't want America to the the sole superpower, because it lets them do things like this. If not America then whom do we look to ? Like it or not America needs to remain the sole superpower, because the only other potential ones - N.Korea and China - will make America's failures look like slight mistakes.
> Buy hey, it's okay because the Americans must have, like, REALLY good
> reasons for this, right?
>
> Yes, that's right; don't question what the big boys do. Just keep your
> head down and pretend that it doesn't matter.
Okay, so America gets these people, detains them on rented land. They're Afghani's mainly yes ? Has Afghanistan asked for them to be released ? Not that I'm aware of. The news story Goatboy posted was about the non Afghani's trying to challenge the legality of this, not the Afghani's. In most cases individuals who were detained had been in combat, they could have laid down weapons and stopped, but they fought, and this is an unfortunate consequence of throwing in their lot with the Taliban.
As the situation stands no country is particularly bothered because at the very least those people fought against allied forces in Afghanistan. Yes, some may be innocent, but that's waht John Walker Lindh said too. It's not right to withhold trials, but there's far worse injustices going on right now.
People - and I'm not saying you because you haven't commented on this - say they don't want America to the the sole superpower, because it lets them do things like this. If not America then whom do we look to ? Like it or not America needs to remain the sole superpower, because the only other potential ones - N.Korea and China - will make America's failures look like slight mistakes.
I'm available for 20 reddies or 2 packets of hula hoops and a pint of Stella.
I don't do a*al though.
I don't do a*al though.
Hur hur hur
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