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"Jade goody to undergo a hysterectomy…"

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Sat 23/08/08 at 18:18
"Was the man of marz"
Posts: 837
divine intervention if you ask me (which no one was).
Tue 26/08/08 at 19:50
Regular
"Monochromatic"
Posts: 18,487
Who would have thought this could turn into such an interesting topic?
The argument over natural selection is an interesting one except what you're arguing isnt natural selection, it's human judgement and weighing up. Natural selection went out the window with the age of morality. Once people started to believe life was valuable and worth protecting regardless of it's quality then the human race chose its own evolution. I know for a fact there are people here who, if had been left to nature, would have died long ago. The rights and wrongs of that argument interest me but the fact remains that instead of leaving nature to kill the weak, we now protect them, probably way past the point we should. I wonder how those people feel knowing that they should have died.

Knowingly corrupted? * Thinks for a minute *
Ok, so you're a fairly good and all around you can see "evil" yet you allow it to take over anyway. Well i guess you'd either have to be fairly weak or you'd have to have lost all faith in your morality as a way of life.
It occurs to me that what we call corrupting forces actually stem from our natural instincts to better ourselves, define our lives etc. Thats another interesting argument, what do you do when society is crumbling and good causes your suffering while breaking the rules means you thrive? Because thats something thats perceived to be going on in our society. Perception might not be reality but it'll sure as hell lead to it eventually and no-one wants to be the last man clinging to a sinking ship.

I have changed the subject a bit but then i think we were getting lost in vagaries.
Regardless of what i think of her, i like that we live in a society that protects people though choice, even if it's not for the greater good and its against nature. If you take away that morality we're back to dog eat dog.
Tue 26/08/08 at 18:43
"Was the man of marz"
Posts: 837
YH wrote:
> Cancer sucks.

That’s a good enough start for my reply as any.

Luetchyboy wrote:
> What a pretentious statement right there, I find it highly
> unlikely that the health profession view cancer as natural
> selection, I would be quite astounded by anyone in the medical
> profession who would not want to try to save the life of somebody
> effected by cancer. Are you seriously telling me that if you got
> cancer (although with your non-western lifestyle I suppose the
> chances are nearly 0%) you would just roll over and say
> "well that's natural selection folks".

Are ridiculous assumptions necessary? How would someone living in the west live a non-western lifestyle. An incredibly elementary point about taking care of yourself was raised and then as an expansion, added was a bit about western lifestyle. That was a mistake, as I completely forgot that how we live now is right at the peak of human civilisation. Never mind even trying to explore how mankind survived millions of years before us.

More to the point why if I feel this way would I say it’s natural selection. That insinuation sounds fairly pretentious to me. With the statement I made there are actual sources to back that up and much anecdotal evidence of people being turned away by doctors, only to survive anyway (some of which I have heard first hand).

Bob_The_Moose wrote:
> Alliterate an idea? To form an idea using alliteration?
> Assuming you are using it as a synonym of 'assemble', have you
> read any of your posts recently? They're long, meandering semi
> rants full of badly explained or, more likely I suspect, just
> plain broken logic, and then go on to hint at your conclusions
> which *appear* to be rather hateful and vile things, but you
> don't actually state them explicitly thus making it incredibly
> difficult to reply to you because anyone attempting to is at huge
> risk of a straw man. Like Nin said: "you almost seemed to be
> saying".

You have an issue with the lack of absolutes in my posts? Well of course there aren’t, because they’re absent from life in general. I’m not telling you this is exactly how it is, more like the other way of looking at it, or maybe that the general belief isn’t ideal. Now I’ve ran out of things to say, because you didn’t really bring anything new to the argument, just the common finger pointing (which seems to work just as well when turned around so it can’t have much substance).

Nin wrote:
> I said nothing about it being discriminatory, you've done that
> yourself by highlighting a bad diet and cancer as cause and
> effect. Bad western diet/bad lifestyle/bad person = You get
> cancer

Did I say you Nin? I was speaking generally (of which I included most of the people in this discussion). Further more your experience of the health system must be very different from mine, although I was looking at it from a world and British perspective. I’ve had family members with cancer (self-inflicted and not) yet the attitude has always been the same. If they think you’re worth treating in terms of prolonging your life then they will, but the message is always at some point it will get you.

> No grooming/branding/PR? Are you kidding me?
> Just a little thing i noticed but "I must stress the
> only reason I know this because they place them by the tills at
> the supermarket"

> Now thats an interesting little comment. So how much exposure
> have you had this woman you hate? You dont seem like a typical BB
> viewer (this is my assumption, you're free to correct me), dont
> read the magazines, are you reliant on newspapers? Because
> they're a great source of balanced, unbiased reporting.

She didn’t, coming straight from the BB house, everyone had already made up their mind that her stupidity equalled innocence. That was disproven, yet now she has cancer the sympathy vote (with the main in this conversation) seems to have returned, and myself doubting this is seen as unreasonable. The tills comment was to emphasise my disgust with the tabloid system, which is why I don’t read them, and I’ve seen enough of big brother to understand what I’m on about (well hopefully).

> Just out of interest, if i gave you a button with which you
> could remove all the undesirables from society (i dont mean kill
> them, just have them never exist), would you press it?

Only if it was attached to myself. “I don’t want to die, I sometimes wish I’d never been born at all”. That pretty much sums up my view, however I do get what you’re on about, but what if you where knowingly corrupted by a vicious society. Imagine the realisations that would lead to, then how many situations it would be applicable to.

YH wrote:
> Who gets to dictate whether someone is an
> "undesirable"?

To end how I began (with a concise quote). If I believe Jade Goody to be ‘undesirable’, and people on here find myself undesirable for finding another so, then isn’t that the same thing? You can say “oh but you did it first”, but that reaction had to already be inside for it to be released, so doesn’t that raise a bigger question as to why we are pre-programmed to react in a certain way? That’s all I have to say about that (in a deep-south accent). PS: sorry about the industrial length of this post.
Tue 26/08/08 at 15:55
Regular
Posts: 14,117
Ah, I getcha.
Tue 26/08/08 at 15:52
Regular
"Monochromatic"
Posts: 18,487
Hidden somewhere in my ramblings, thats part of what i'm trying to get at.
Tue 26/08/08 at 15:31
Regular
Posts: 14,117
Who gets to dictate whether someone is an "undesirable"?
Tue 26/08/08 at 15:11
Regular
"Monochromatic"
Posts: 18,487
Marzman wrote:
> When did cancer become a malicious entity, discriminately
> choosing individuals to mutate? This seems to be most peoples
> view on the matter (and might I add that includes the people who
> have an issue with this frank discussion). The reality is that
> the health profession see the disease as natural selection, and
> in the case of family members who have developed it, they’re
> reluctant to even treat. Remember Cancer Research is a charity
> funding research and doesn’t reflect the actual medical
> consensus.

I said nothing about it being discriminatory, you've done that yourself by highlighting a bad diet and cancer as cause and effect. Bad western diet/bad lifestyle/bad person = You get cancer
Your natural selection idea is interesting and yet ridiculous. I've spent 18 months of the last 2 years living with someone who had terminal cancer. The health service couldn't have done more for him, regardless of how they viewed the situation.

> You're justifying the suffering of an individual (and those
> around her) based on your hatred when infact you've never met
> the
> woman and know only what you've been shown.
>
> Please hold that thought:
>
> Strange the things that come to mind given the topic but have
> you ever read Crime and Punishment? You remind me of the main
> character.
>
> You’ve never met me, plus I rarely come onto these forums, are
> you seeing the contradiction yet? I also find your statement
> even more baffling when you consider she is a reality TV star, so
> we have probably had more access to her than any other celebrity,
> without all the meticulous grooming/branding/PR that normally
> comes with them. In principal you should never judge, but there
> are those that intentionally mould themselves into a stereotype,
> so why shouldn’t you if this is frequently the case

No grooming/branding/PR? Are you kidding me?
Just a little thing i noticed but "I must stress the only reason I know this because they place them by the tills at the supermarket"
Now thats an interesting little comment. So how much exposure have you had this woman you hate? You dont seem like a typical BB viewer (this is my assumption, you're free to correct me), dont read the magazines, are you reliant on newspapers? Because they're a great source of balanced, unbiased reporting.

Ok now as for my contradiction, maybe "met" is the wrong word to use here as a comparison, interact would probably better. Anyway, i never said i knew you or disliked you and seeing as i have never closely insinuated that you deserve cancer, i dont see your point.
I said you reminded me of something that is as far away from this topic as possible. I can only assume you dont know why i added that little musing on the end so i'll briefly explain. Crime & Punishments main character is a guy called Rascalnikov who unknowingly becomes corrupted by the vicious society he is introduced to. Eventually he kills a mean old woman believing she she offers nothing to society, that he's doing the world a service and thats its his right as a superior being to decide the fate of another for a higher purpose, sort of like a god complex. Anyway eventually he finds he doesnt have the courage of his convictions, his guilt gets the better of him and he confesses. Very long story cut short.
Just out of interest, if i gave you a button with which you could remove all the undesirables from society (i dont mean kill them, just have them never exist), would you press it?
Tue 26/08/08 at 14:48
Regular
Posts: 295
OK two key things firstly:

This is the wrong forum, but that could probably be ignored.
Secondly the thread is not even remotely gaming related in anyway at all. So for just pure ignorance I'm not deleting that post.
Tue 26/08/08 at 14:43
Regular
"Live and Let Live"
Posts: 5
HUH?
Tue 26/08/08 at 14:13
Regular
Posts: 295
ggfromnwk wrote:
> Someone, Anyone please "HELP" I have tried using the
> cheats for the game "the sims 2" on my playstation 2
> and they are not working. The main 2 cheats are 1st I have to get
> the gnome to activate the cheats and then the "trophy"
> to enter the cheats. The cheats I have tried for "the
> sims" work but so far not "the sims 2'


LOL I'm not deleting that just because.
Tue 26/08/08 at 14:05
Regular
"Live and Let Live"
Posts: 5
Someone, Anyone please "HELP" I have tried using the cheats for the game "the sims 2" on my playstation 2 and they are not working. The main 2 cheats are 1st I have to get the gnome to activate the cheats and then the "trophy" to enter the cheats. The cheats I have tried for "the sims" work but so far not "the sims 2'

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