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I want to re-ignite the debate about capital punishment. With th events of the last two weeks concerning those missing girls culminating in the arrest of two people, I advocate a return of capital punishment. I don't care how they do it, but these sort of people don't deserve to live - prison is too good for them.
What do you think? Please none of this humanitarian crap defending them though - humanitarianism wasn't high on the two in question when they committed the crime, was it?
What do you think? Please none of this humanitarian crap defending them though - humanitarianism wasn't high on the two in question when they committed the crime, was it?
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MoJoJoJo wrote:
> No, they should be reformed. True, some people are a menace to society
> and will never change, but with some people there is a chance they can
> be salvaged. Instead of throwing people in prison and leaving them to
> rot, they should be taught the errors of their ways, so they can go
> back into society (if possible)
I'm sure their parents would disagree. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but do people like this, who appear to have no souls, really deserve a second chance? If a dog kills a human, it is destroyed, not trained. I believe this to be the best idea, people these days are quite literally getting away with murder. Those kids who killed Jamie Bulger got away quite lightly, if they go on to commit another murder at a later stage, who is to blame? The people who 'rehabilitated' them, for failing to do a good job? It all comes down to passing the book again. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If Bin Laden was brought to trial, would you say it fair to rehabilitate him, and release him back into society?
> No, they should be reformed. True, some people are a menace to society
> and will never change, but with some people there is a chance they can
> be salvaged. Instead of throwing people in prison and leaving them to
> rot, they should be taught the errors of their ways, so they can go
> back into society (if possible)
I'm sure their parents would disagree. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but do people like this, who appear to have no souls, really deserve a second chance? If a dog kills a human, it is destroyed, not trained. I believe this to be the best idea, people these days are quite literally getting away with murder. Those kids who killed Jamie Bulger got away quite lightly, if they go on to commit another murder at a later stage, who is to blame? The people who 'rehabilitated' them, for failing to do a good job? It all comes down to passing the book again. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If Bin Laden was brought to trial, would you say it fair to rehabilitate him, and release him back into society?
Doglatto wrote:
> people who kill without good cause (i.e. war, if that IS a 'good
> cause') should be executed as punishment.
>
> end of story
---------
No, they should be reformed. True, some people are a menace to society and will never change, but with some people there is a chance they can be salvaged. Instead of throwing people in prison and leaving them to rot, they should be taught the errors of their ways, so they can go back into society (if possible)
> people who kill without good cause (i.e. war, if that IS a 'good
> cause') should be executed as punishment.
>
> end of story
---------
No, they should be reformed. True, some people are a menace to society and will never change, but with some people there is a chance they can be salvaged. Instead of throwing people in prison and leaving them to rot, they should be taught the errors of their ways, so they can go back into society (if possible)
here, RM18, right on.
to be honest, the events concerning those two missing girls make me physically sick.
the loss of capital punishment was a terrible loss of control.
people who kill without good cause (i.e. war, if that IS a 'good cause') should be executed as punishment.
end of story
to be honest, the events concerning those two missing girls make me physically sick.
the loss of capital punishment was a terrible loss of control.
people who kill without good cause (i.e. war, if that IS a 'good cause') should be executed as punishment.
end of story
Well, this thread brings up a couple of questions:
1) Why kill someone, who killed someone, to show that killing is wrong?
2) If you had a member of your family killed would you want the killer to be put to sleep gently like Timothy McVeigh? I wouldn't. I would want them to go to prison for however long and then once they were out, I would tend to them myself.
1) Why kill someone, who killed someone, to show that killing is wrong?
2) If you had a member of your family killed would you want the killer to be put to sleep gently like Timothy McVeigh? I wouldn't. I would want them to go to prison for however long and then once they were out, I would tend to them myself.
Throwing people in jail is no good, in fact it can even make people more deviant. The best criminalologists in the world all agree on that
What we need to do is sort out the CAUSES of crime. Get rid of working class people (not literally) and you get rid of the majority of crime (most violent crime for example) Don't gas them or anything, but educate them in the ways of the way "normal" people live. Which is stuff like not swearing at your kids, not stealing and getting your children to join in, not dealing drugs, not using violence - etc etc etc
Yes, that's facist, but it needs to be done.
What we need to do is sort out the CAUSES of crime. Get rid of working class people (not literally) and you get rid of the majority of crime (most violent crime for example) Don't gas them or anything, but educate them in the ways of the way "normal" people live. Which is stuff like not swearing at your kids, not stealing and getting your children to join in, not dealing drugs, not using violence - etc etc etc
Yes, that's facist, but it needs to be done.
I agree with Happy to an extent. However, I think capitol punishment could be justified in very extreme cases where someone has murdered a number of victims and is beyond the help you talk of. Although saying what is and isn't 'beyond' help I do not know... I suppose you'd just have to look at each individual case. But I think there are two types of killers. There are those who have the 'disease' you talk of and those who make cold calculated murders for personal gain. Now from what we can see there was nothing to gain from murdering two girls. Which would mean the people that perpertrated this crime have the 'disease' you speak of so can be helped. But people who are cold calculating killers who do it for capitol gain, etc. I'm not so sure you can help. They do it for greed. Maybe the greed is inset by society? And I'm not sure you can help them, because our whole society breeds this idea that success is in money, so they can never actually escape greed.
The sick can be helped, but sometimes they are too ill to be treated. And maybe then we should kill them? We kill animals if they are too ill to be treated, and yeah, maybe this is taking the 'sick' metaphor a bit far, but it's true. But 'ill' or not, it's no condolense to the loved ones of victims. And they are bound to want revenge. And we are bound to feel outrage that something like this could happen. But killing the murderer won't bring back the murdered. And maybe they don't deserve a second chance. But who are we to judge? We're all part of the same race. And whether we like it or not, the 'sick' will always be with us.
And I think Life in prison should mean life too. Life improisonment is a term far over-used and mostly not carried out. They should set a term for jail, and that's the MINIMUM they serve. If they behave well they get out in the time they were set. If they don't behave well they are left in longer.
The sick can be helped, but sometimes they are too ill to be treated. And maybe then we should kill them? We kill animals if they are too ill to be treated, and yeah, maybe this is taking the 'sick' metaphor a bit far, but it's true. But 'ill' or not, it's no condolense to the loved ones of victims. And they are bound to want revenge. And we are bound to feel outrage that something like this could happen. But killing the murderer won't bring back the murdered. And maybe they don't deserve a second chance. But who are we to judge? We're all part of the same race. And whether we like it or not, the 'sick' will always be with us.
And I think Life in prison should mean life too. Life improisonment is a term far over-used and mostly not carried out. They should set a term for jail, and that's the MINIMUM they serve. If they behave well they get out in the time they were set. If they don't behave well they are left in longer.
Capital punishment is fundamentally wrong. The only argument to support it is that it supposedly acts as a deterrant (if you justify it by saying that a murderer deserves to be killed then you have learned nothing from the murderer's crimes, and are at base no better than he or she) However, clearly capital punishment is not an effective deterrant. Figures in America show no difference in crime levels between pro-death and non-death states.
It should act as a deterrant, but it doesn't because people are fundamentally short-termists. They don't think about the consequences of being caught, rather the probability of getting away with it. In order to reduce crime you need to make the criminal aware that it is a statistical certainty he will be caught if he transgresses. The only way in which that can be done is to introduce a nationwide DNA library. Police could use this to solve crimes with relative ease and crime would fall because people would know that they would not get away with it.
Crime should not be looked at in terms of punishment; this has led to centuries of ineffectual crime reduction. Prison and the death penalty are seen as fitting punishments for transgressives, but rehabilitation is way down the list. The aim of prison should be to ensure that criminals can return to a functional social life, not to punish them. Punishment creates an idea of negativity, only perpetuated by capital punishment, it's a society against us mentality that persists when the criminal leaves prison to commit crimes again. If you want to reduce crime, stop murders and rehabilitate paedophiles, then they need to be helped, treated and nutured. The criminals are not the disease, they are the sick; the illness is the poverty, aggression and indiscipline that leads to crime. That is what needs to be attacked with maximum force, while its victims need to be treated.
It should act as a deterrant, but it doesn't because people are fundamentally short-termists. They don't think about the consequences of being caught, rather the probability of getting away with it. In order to reduce crime you need to make the criminal aware that it is a statistical certainty he will be caught if he transgresses. The only way in which that can be done is to introduce a nationwide DNA library. Police could use this to solve crimes with relative ease and crime would fall because people would know that they would not get away with it.
Crime should not be looked at in terms of punishment; this has led to centuries of ineffectual crime reduction. Prison and the death penalty are seen as fitting punishments for transgressives, but rehabilitation is way down the list. The aim of prison should be to ensure that criminals can return to a functional social life, not to punish them. Punishment creates an idea of negativity, only perpetuated by capital punishment, it's a society against us mentality that persists when the criminal leaves prison to commit crimes again. If you want to reduce crime, stop murders and rehabilitate paedophiles, then they need to be helped, treated and nutured. The criminals are not the disease, they are the sick; the illness is the poverty, aggression and indiscipline that leads to crime. That is what needs to be attacked with maximum force, while its victims need to be treated.
I agree with Sheepys point, Life should mean life and not early release for good behaviour etc.
I also think that prison life is too good for some people, they have a higher standard of living than a lot of people and that is just wrong. There should be no tv's no form of entertainment and they should be punished and made to suffer for their crimes.
I'd also have small criminals do more for the local councils like cut grass, paint etc. Community service if you like. I would also have people claiming from the dole doing more to help the local community, earning the money they get.
Rant over.
I also think that prison life is too good for some people, they have a higher standard of living than a lot of people and that is just wrong. There should be no tv's no form of entertainment and they should be punished and made to suffer for their crimes.
I'd also have small criminals do more for the local councils like cut grass, paint etc. Community service if you like. I would also have people claiming from the dole doing more to help the local community, earning the money they get.
Rant over.
A valid point Sheepy - the justice system has been wrong in the past and it will be wrong in the future - a fact that will probably hinder any chances of it coming back.
Q. If there was a referendum tomorrow, which way would you vote?
Q. If there was a referendum tomorrow, which way would you vote?
Life should mean life in prison.
Make them suffer by making them spend the rest of their lifes behind bars.
Capital Punishment in my opinion is wrong as I don't believe anyone is any better if the state kills them and also they're are too many miscarriagess of justice these days.
I don't trust the legal system.
Make them suffer by making them spend the rest of their lifes behind bars.
Capital Punishment in my opinion is wrong as I don't believe anyone is any better if the state kills them and also they're are too many miscarriagess of justice these days.
I don't trust the legal system.
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