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This is just my opinion on some stuff. Which side do you favor - scientific or religious route? Foreword: This, which I am about to type isn’t science-fiction nonsense. Much of what is written is based on scientifically proven fact, and the rest is my opinion. Using a combination of the two, a reasonably non-contradictory explanation can hopefully be created. Right.
In the beginning there was the big bang, the creation of OUR universe. There, at the same time, were also an infinite number of other big bangs elsewhere in the multiverse. The multiverse is a fluid medium in which our, and many other universes float. Our universe is likely to be donut-shaped, but as we have no scientific proof, and never will have, this can never be proved. The multiverse cannot be defined; it is a place where “god” exists. Here he/she/it created all the universes, possibly simultaneously. He DID create everything we know, but in a random manner. Each universe is similar to at least one other universe, but with one single tiny difference in the laws of physics. For every possible outcome that could arise, there is a universe for each possibility (hence parallel universe. But this is actually lies because if it was a parallel universe then everything would be the same and it’s not, there is one difference in each one). Our universe is almost infinitely large, and is expanding, at an almost infinite rate. (Again not 100% scientific fact but this is what is generally believed to be happening)
The universe is several billion years old, this IS scientific fact and flatly contradicts the Bible, which claims the earth is a mere 5000 years old, but the earth is also several billion years old. It could be ¼ the age of the universe or perhaps even less. But still, that is substantially more than 5000 years. If the bible is wrong on such a scale, such a massive fact then surely other, more minor facts must also be incorrect. The bible clearly has a lot of truth. And it also has many valid points, and thus should be followed. But, in my opinion, whether you follow it or not, has no effect on the “afterlife”, more on this later.
The earth was formed in space over millions or billions of years, due to the accumulation of dust and particles in space, formed by a destroyed star or the creation of the universe itself. The gravity of all the little bits pulled together to form a large planet. There was extreme heat here because of all the forces acting upon the planet, during its creation. Here it sat and boiled for a while, until it got smacked by a super-massive asteroid, and this caused bits of it to fly off. These bits went into orbit around the earth and formed the moon. Earth now is kind of cooling down, and sort of becoming habitable. Life will soon form, but there are two possible ways in which this could happen.
1. Bits of stuff, proteins etc congealed in a pool, by chance formed an organism and this organism then decided it was a plant. And thus life on earth arose due to its own volition.
2. There was already life elsewhere in the universe, which is highly likely due to the place’s age, 5 billion years+ is likely to form life (as stated in 1.), and a meteor or whatever struck this planet. Some bacteria or plant material was transported through space in/on the asteroid. It landed on our humble planet, escaped and started up here.
If either of these are true, which they could well be, does it not occur to you that life is just a big bunch of random proteins and stuff congealed together, by luck/chance, and evolution have culminated, on this planet at any rate, in humans. Look at really basic life: an amoeba. It clearly has no intelligence; it simply isn’t capable of it. Don’t say it does, because it simply cant think, it lives, breeds etc on genetic instinct built into it. It has no choice, it has no ethics, and it has no ‘spirit’. Eat or not eat. Divide or not divide. That’s about the limit of its choices. Then look at us: are we any different? NO. Our brains are just 2 lbs of gray mush that has been formed over millions of years of natural selection. The brain is really great. It’s quite smashing. It can do millions of things per second; it’s faster than ANY computer. It controls electrical signals generated in our brain, generally by external stimuli. Sight, smell etc. these electrical signals go to glands or whatever, send out hormones, and stuff.
Personality is just a bonus, a side effect of the brain. Look at dolphins, or sharks, or snakes, or mice. Not stupid animals, they have personalities, just like any one of us. But would you say they have a “spirit”? Do they have a god? In the literal sense, yes they do as god is (potentially) an omnipotent being who created the universes. But do they go to heaven when they die? Do the dolphins go to a massive sea in the sky with as many hoops, balls and fish as they want? To the mice go to cheese-land? No. How? Because there is no such place, there is no such thing as “spirits,” or “your soul”. There is the person inside oneself, but that is primarily defined at conception, then later, after birth, formed through external influences. It may sound heartless but it is, in my opinion, the truth.
So, what happens when we die? Where do we go, what happens to our consciousness? It simply stops. There is nothing there; you simply don’t exist (other then your dead body). Whatever thoughts, feelings or whatever you had on your dying day will be stored there still, in your deceased brain, until it degrades, the memory cells die and THEN, you are gone. So in a way you do exist after death, if only briefly. But of course you are dead, there is no heart action, thus no brain function, therefore it is the end.
If you disagree with any of my points, feel free to criticize.
Thanks for reading,
LF
In the beginning there was the big bang, the creation of OUR universe. There, at the same time, were also an infinite number of other big bangs elsewhere in the multiverse. The multiverse is a fluid medium in which our, and many other universes float. Our universe is likely to be donut-shaped, but as we have no scientific proof, and never will have, this can never be proved. The multiverse cannot be defined; it is a place where “god” exists. Here he/she/it created all the universes, possibly simultaneously. He DID create everything we know, but in a random manner. Each universe is similar to at least one other universe, but with one single tiny difference in the laws of physics. For every possible outcome that could arise, there is a universe for each possibility (hence parallel universe. But this is actually lies because if it was a parallel universe then everything would be the same and it’s not, there is one difference in each one). Our universe is almost infinitely large, and is expanding, at an almost infinite rate. (Again not 100% scientific fact but this is what is generally believed to be happening)
The universe is several billion years old, this IS scientific fact and flatly contradicts the Bible, which claims the earth is a mere 5000 years old, but the earth is also several billion years old. It could be ¼ the age of the universe or perhaps even less. But still, that is substantially more than 5000 years. If the bible is wrong on such a scale, such a massive fact then surely other, more minor facts must also be incorrect. The bible clearly has a lot of truth. And it also has many valid points, and thus should be followed. But, in my opinion, whether you follow it or not, has no effect on the “afterlife”, more on this later.
The earth was formed in space over millions or billions of years, due to the accumulation of dust and particles in space, formed by a destroyed star or the creation of the universe itself. The gravity of all the little bits pulled together to form a large planet. There was extreme heat here because of all the forces acting upon the planet, during its creation. Here it sat and boiled for a while, until it got smacked by a super-massive asteroid, and this caused bits of it to fly off. These bits went into orbit around the earth and formed the moon. Earth now is kind of cooling down, and sort of becoming habitable. Life will soon form, but there are two possible ways in which this could happen.
1. Bits of stuff, proteins etc congealed in a pool, by chance formed an organism and this organism then decided it was a plant. And thus life on earth arose due to its own volition.
2. There was already life elsewhere in the universe, which is highly likely due to the place’s age, 5 billion years+ is likely to form life (as stated in 1.), and a meteor or whatever struck this planet. Some bacteria or plant material was transported through space in/on the asteroid. It landed on our humble planet, escaped and started up here.
If either of these are true, which they could well be, does it not occur to you that life is just a big bunch of random proteins and stuff congealed together, by luck/chance, and evolution have culminated, on this planet at any rate, in humans. Look at really basic life: an amoeba. It clearly has no intelligence; it simply isn’t capable of it. Don’t say it does, because it simply cant think, it lives, breeds etc on genetic instinct built into it. It has no choice, it has no ethics, and it has no ‘spirit’. Eat or not eat. Divide or not divide. That’s about the limit of its choices. Then look at us: are we any different? NO. Our brains are just 2 lbs of gray mush that has been formed over millions of years of natural selection. The brain is really great. It’s quite smashing. It can do millions of things per second; it’s faster than ANY computer. It controls electrical signals generated in our brain, generally by external stimuli. Sight, smell etc. these electrical signals go to glands or whatever, send out hormones, and stuff.
Personality is just a bonus, a side effect of the brain. Look at dolphins, or sharks, or snakes, or mice. Not stupid animals, they have personalities, just like any one of us. But would you say they have a “spirit”? Do they have a god? In the literal sense, yes they do as god is (potentially) an omnipotent being who created the universes. But do they go to heaven when they die? Do the dolphins go to a massive sea in the sky with as many hoops, balls and fish as they want? To the mice go to cheese-land? No. How? Because there is no such place, there is no such thing as “spirits,” or “your soul”. There is the person inside oneself, but that is primarily defined at conception, then later, after birth, formed through external influences. It may sound heartless but it is, in my opinion, the truth.
So, what happens when we die? Where do we go, what happens to our consciousness? It simply stops. There is nothing there; you simply don’t exist (other then your dead body). Whatever thoughts, feelings or whatever you had on your dying day will be stored there still, in your deceased brain, until it degrades, the memory cells die and THEN, you are gone. So in a way you do exist after death, if only briefly. But of course you are dead, there is no heart action, thus no brain function, therefore it is the end.
If you disagree with any of my points, feel free to criticize.
Thanks for reading,
LF
Page:
So if theres no life after death please explain this:There is the equivalant of 50,000 volts of electrical energy in your brain,energy cannot be destroyed or created it can only be transformed from one state to another,so where does this energy go and what state is it transformed to when you die...?
Because it's a proven fact
MoJoJoJo wrote:
> According to the bible, evolution doesn't exist. Surely you believe in
> evolution though, Ant
Why would that be?
> According to the bible, evolution doesn't exist. Surely you believe in
> evolution though, Ant
Why would that be?
Lawless Fever wrote:
> I took Sociology in college
-----
I knew it
Sociology really opens your eyes to certain things, that's why I like it. Might have to resit the A2 half of it, depending on how well I do in the exams, and that doesn't bother me too much, as the subject was more interesting than other lessons
> I took Sociology in college
-----
I knew it
Sociology really opens your eyes to certain things, that's why I like it. Might have to resit the A2 half of it, depending on how well I do in the exams, and that doesn't bother me too much, as the subject was more interesting than other lessons
According to the bible, evolution doesn't exist. Surely you believe in evolution though, Ant
As you're probably all sick of hearing, I'm a Christian so don't really believe in the Big Bang. Easily disprovable and clothed by a lot of scientific 'formulas.'
I can respect that people do believe in science, but to be honest I don't think we'll ever know how we were made (we can believe, but not know.) And it's basically because we weren't there, obviously.
I can respect that people do believe in science, but to be honest I don't think we'll ever know how we were made (we can believe, but not know.) And it's basically because we weren't there, obviously.
Lawless, are you, by any chance, a Sociology student?
I remember we had one of these debates before. All the scientific facts and stuff made my head hurt. So this time I'm not going to get involved except to say that I would be less worried about how we came to be here and more worried about where we (as a race) are headed...
Lawless, I am a scientist at heart, however, your topic is vastly flawed...
"In the beginning there was the big bang, the creation of OUR universe. There, at the same time, were also an infinite number of other big bangs elsewhere in the multiverse. The multiverse is a fluid medium in which our, and many other universes float."
This is not scientific fact. If anything, this idea will be disproved as soon as Schrodinger's wave curve for the Universe is solved.
The above argument was created by scientists to combat the "why is everything just perfect for human life argument". The scientist's respose was "Oh, well, maybe there are actually infinite Universes". This has no true scientific backing, and is just one way to explain things.
"Our universe is likely to be donut-shaped, but as we have no scientific proof, and never will have, this can never be proved."
No it's not!
Firstly, it can't be torus shaped because a torus is a 3D object! Now, if you mean the 5dimensional equivalent of the torus, the Universe is just as likely to be almost any other closes 5D shaped- infinitely many far beyond our comprehension.
"The multiverse cannot be defined; it is a place where “god” exists. Here he/she/it created all the universes, possibly simultaneously. He DID create everything we know, but in a random manner.... Again not 100% scientific fact but this is what is generally believed to be happening"
Perhaps you should seperate what is fact and belief more clearly?
"The universe is several billion years old, this IS scientific fact and flatly contradicts the Bible, which claims the earth is a mere 5000 years old, but the earth is also several billion years old. It could be ¼ the age of the universe or perhaps even less. But still, that is substantially more than 5000 years. If the bible is wrong on such a scale, such a massive fact then surely other, more minor facts must also be incorrect."
Actually, the church view on the Bible is that Genesis it is NOT how the world was created- it was how the people who wrote the bible tried to explain the creation of something vastly beyond anyone's comprehension.
Oh, and the stuff about the 7 days of creation is more akin to 7 ages of creation. The church doesn't actually deny the Bing Bang. The question is why the big bang occurred in the first place (my bet: Superstring. However, what caused Superstring formation?)
____________________________________________
Now, onto the actual issues.
Science does not conflict with Religion. As a scientist I could prove how the big bang happened. But what caused that to happen? Isn't it a big odd that the conditions of the Universe are so perfect that life can be allowed to form. If, say, the proton mass was a little different, no molecules could form at all.
The whole argument is flawed because scientists need proof to believe, and religion needs faith to believe. The 2 idea are completely oposite, but neither is more important than the other.
Sonic
"In the beginning there was the big bang, the creation of OUR universe. There, at the same time, were also an infinite number of other big bangs elsewhere in the multiverse. The multiverse is a fluid medium in which our, and many other universes float."
This is not scientific fact. If anything, this idea will be disproved as soon as Schrodinger's wave curve for the Universe is solved.
The above argument was created by scientists to combat the "why is everything just perfect for human life argument". The scientist's respose was "Oh, well, maybe there are actually infinite Universes". This has no true scientific backing, and is just one way to explain things.
"Our universe is likely to be donut-shaped, but as we have no scientific proof, and never will have, this can never be proved."
No it's not!
Firstly, it can't be torus shaped because a torus is a 3D object! Now, if you mean the 5dimensional equivalent of the torus, the Universe is just as likely to be almost any other closes 5D shaped- infinitely many far beyond our comprehension.
"The multiverse cannot be defined; it is a place where “god” exists. Here he/she/it created all the universes, possibly simultaneously. He DID create everything we know, but in a random manner.... Again not 100% scientific fact but this is what is generally believed to be happening"
Perhaps you should seperate what is fact and belief more clearly?
"The universe is several billion years old, this IS scientific fact and flatly contradicts the Bible, which claims the earth is a mere 5000 years old, but the earth is also several billion years old. It could be ¼ the age of the universe or perhaps even less. But still, that is substantially more than 5000 years. If the bible is wrong on such a scale, such a massive fact then surely other, more minor facts must also be incorrect."
Actually, the church view on the Bible is that Genesis it is NOT how the world was created- it was how the people who wrote the bible tried to explain the creation of something vastly beyond anyone's comprehension.
Oh, and the stuff about the 7 days of creation is more akin to 7 ages of creation. The church doesn't actually deny the Bing Bang. The question is why the big bang occurred in the first place (my bet: Superstring. However, what caused Superstring formation?)
____________________________________________
Now, onto the actual issues.
Science does not conflict with Religion. As a scientist I could prove how the big bang happened. But what caused that to happen? Isn't it a big odd that the conditions of the Universe are so perfect that life can be allowed to form. If, say, the proton mass was a little different, no molecules could form at all.
The whole argument is flawed because scientists need proof to believe, and religion needs faith to believe. The 2 idea are completely oposite, but neither is more important than the other.
Sonic
Page: