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In my view patriotism is being proud of the country you live in.
Am I proud of being English? In a word, not really. The only thing that's happened in my life time that made be proud to be English was when we beat Germany 5-1 in the football last year.
That's it.
Nothing else in my life, since April 21st 1981, has made me proud to be English.
Lot's of things have made me ashamed to be English. Mainly when English people go abroad and cause trouble, slurring our reputation.
I should be proud to be English. Our country has a great history.
But that's it. History. It's past, not now. Not any more. For how long can we rely on things years past to be proud of? For how long can we say "Yeah, but we had the Empire." Had. Not any more.
What are we good at on a global level? Music? Sport? Athletics? Films? Books? Is there any apsect of life where we are acknowledged as being the best?
Perhaps one. The ceremony for the Queen Mum. We're good at pagentry (if that's the right word for it), we're good at pomp and ceremony.
Why is this? Why are we crap at most sports, and face it, we are.
Ok, we're getting better at football, and we're ok-ish at rugby. But that's it. In the US athletes have sponsorship. They don't have to work, they can spend time training.
Over here? Redgrave and Pinsent had to work full time while training for the olympics the other year. This is wrong. Why were they not given sponsorship to help them achieve their best?
Why do we not have academies and things for young people who have an obvious talent, to help them get the most out of that talent?
Not just in sport, but in other things. Music, films, books, art... all the creative things.
I keep mentioning sport but it happens in all aspects of life. Even in politics, we're seen as being America's lapdog.
We do what Europe tells us to do, even on THE most ridiculous things.
Why? We're our own country. We should do what we want to do. Why listen to people in Brussels, who we haven't voted in, to tell us what to do? That's not democracy. Being told what to do by unelected people is not democracy at all. It's a farce.
Result:
I'm am NOT proud to be English at all. Being English sucks.
I want to see our national teams do well, I want to see us do our own thing.
Yes, being in Europe would be good for some things. And we should embrace those things, but we should ignore the crap that seems to come with it.
What's the saying? When in Rome do as the Romans? How about this one: "When in England do as the English"?
The other year Birmingham City Council decided to re-name Christmas to "Winter Festival" or some crap name like that. Why?
To accomodate racial minorities in the city who don't celebrate christmas. They don't celebrate christmas, that's fine with me. But we bloody well do. Why should we change to accomodate them?
I'm not racist at all. But they CHOSE to come here, we didn't FORCE them to. The celebrate their festivals, we celebrate ours. What's the problem?
Political Correctness gone mad, that's the problem.
Anyway, I've written gibberish long enough. Congratulations if you got to the end without skipping the middle out...
Am I proud of being English? In a word, not really. The only thing that's happened in my life time that made be proud to be English was when we beat Germany 5-1 in the football last year.
That's it.
Nothing else in my life, since April 21st 1981, has made me proud to be English.
Lot's of things have made me ashamed to be English. Mainly when English people go abroad and cause trouble, slurring our reputation.
I should be proud to be English. Our country has a great history.
But that's it. History. It's past, not now. Not any more. For how long can we rely on things years past to be proud of? For how long can we say "Yeah, but we had the Empire." Had. Not any more.
What are we good at on a global level? Music? Sport? Athletics? Films? Books? Is there any apsect of life where we are acknowledged as being the best?
Perhaps one. The ceremony for the Queen Mum. We're good at pagentry (if that's the right word for it), we're good at pomp and ceremony.
Why is this? Why are we crap at most sports, and face it, we are.
Ok, we're getting better at football, and we're ok-ish at rugby. But that's it. In the US athletes have sponsorship. They don't have to work, they can spend time training.
Over here? Redgrave and Pinsent had to work full time while training for the olympics the other year. This is wrong. Why were they not given sponsorship to help them achieve their best?
Why do we not have academies and things for young people who have an obvious talent, to help them get the most out of that talent?
Not just in sport, but in other things. Music, films, books, art... all the creative things.
I keep mentioning sport but it happens in all aspects of life. Even in politics, we're seen as being America's lapdog.
We do what Europe tells us to do, even on THE most ridiculous things.
Why? We're our own country. We should do what we want to do. Why listen to people in Brussels, who we haven't voted in, to tell us what to do? That's not democracy. Being told what to do by unelected people is not democracy at all. It's a farce.
Result:
I'm am NOT proud to be English at all. Being English sucks.
I want to see our national teams do well, I want to see us do our own thing.
Yes, being in Europe would be good for some things. And we should embrace those things, but we should ignore the crap that seems to come with it.
What's the saying? When in Rome do as the Romans? How about this one: "When in England do as the English"?
The other year Birmingham City Council decided to re-name Christmas to "Winter Festival" or some crap name like that. Why?
To accomodate racial minorities in the city who don't celebrate christmas. They don't celebrate christmas, that's fine with me. But we bloody well do. Why should we change to accomodate them?
I'm not racist at all. But they CHOSE to come here, we didn't FORCE them to. The celebrate their festivals, we celebrate ours. What's the problem?
Political Correctness gone mad, that's the problem.
Anyway, I've written gibberish long enough. Congratulations if you got to the end without skipping the middle out...
Page:
Small Frog wrote:
Our
> countries history is one of violence. We took over half the world by killing
> people.
And show me a country where violence hasn't been part of history ? We took over half the world by working with social elites in places like Africa who were happy to sell out their fellow citizens for profit.
>And what do you mean, "tries to do something good"? If you're
> talking about America's slaughter of innocents in their 'war on terror', you
> don't know what you're talking about. America could actually try to find Osama,
> instead of just blowing up everywhere till he shows up.
Okay, this is one of the few kinds of arguments that gets to me. You can show compassion for people that may/may not have been killed in a country many would have been pressed to find on a map pre 9/11 but the 2893 killed in America on 9/11 - they don't matter to you. The Taliban had 30 days to surrender before Enduring Freedom launched, did they NOT ONE BIT. They had tha chance to surrender and didn't - therefore every civlian who dies is on their conscience. NO SUPPORTER OF THE TALIBAN CAN EXPLAIN HOW ENDURING FREEDOM IS UNJUST WHEN THE TALIBAN COULD HAVE SURRENEDERED.
This is a new war, America and her allies didn't start it, but by god we'll finish it and capture/kill every last terrorist who stands in the way. Now is the chance to end terrorism and at last the international community is doing something - if you don't like it, tough. I want a peaceful world, and if that means using force so be it.
America is trying to find Osama - except you don't advertise that kind of operation. Check Fox web/news and you'll see that on March 28th Pakistani forces were 3 hours late behind him and instead caught another Al Queda guy. If it wasn't for all you PC "I hate America" people CLinton could have wiped out Osama ages ago when he was in office.
>This arguing lark is
> fun, isn't it? :)
Sure beats the other forums at the moment :)
Our
> countries history is one of violence. We took over half the world by killing
> people.
And show me a country where violence hasn't been part of history ? We took over half the world by working with social elites in places like Africa who were happy to sell out their fellow citizens for profit.
>And what do you mean, "tries to do something good"? If you're
> talking about America's slaughter of innocents in their 'war on terror', you
> don't know what you're talking about. America could actually try to find Osama,
> instead of just blowing up everywhere till he shows up.
Okay, this is one of the few kinds of arguments that gets to me. You can show compassion for people that may/may not have been killed in a country many would have been pressed to find on a map pre 9/11 but the 2893 killed in America on 9/11 - they don't matter to you. The Taliban had 30 days to surrender before Enduring Freedom launched, did they NOT ONE BIT. They had tha chance to surrender and didn't - therefore every civlian who dies is on their conscience. NO SUPPORTER OF THE TALIBAN CAN EXPLAIN HOW ENDURING FREEDOM IS UNJUST WHEN THE TALIBAN COULD HAVE SURRENEDERED.
This is a new war, America and her allies didn't start it, but by god we'll finish it and capture/kill every last terrorist who stands in the way. Now is the chance to end terrorism and at last the international community is doing something - if you don't like it, tough. I want a peaceful world, and if that means using force so be it.
America is trying to find Osama - except you don't advertise that kind of operation. Check Fox web/news and you'll see that on March 28th Pakistani forces were 3 hours late behind him and instead caught another Al Queda guy. If it wasn't for all you PC "I hate America" people CLinton could have wiped out Osama ages ago when he was in office.
>This arguing lark is
> fun, isn't it? :)
Sure beats the other forums at the moment :)
nh wrote:
Another indication of how things are changing -
> this is a Christian country - and saying the Lords Prayer is part of our
> heritage and tradition. Something else that has been stopped in a lot of schools
> purely so it does not offend 'Little Mazmud'
No it's not. The point of our country - a democracy, remember? - is to be open to everything. Our country is not Christian, christianity was simply forced upon people up till a few centuries ago whether they like it or not. There is no heritage or tradition to it; there is simply a reminder of how we are made to say things that we may not want to, just because we are told to. I apologise if you disagree, but that's simply my point of view. I have an internal problem with religion which I'm not going in to here, but I don't like any religion, since people can do things 'in the name of [insert deity here]' that would be considered highly illegal.
Another indication of how things are changing -
> this is a Christian country - and saying the Lords Prayer is part of our
> heritage and tradition. Something else that has been stopped in a lot of schools
> purely so it does not offend 'Little Mazmud'
No it's not. The point of our country - a democracy, remember? - is to be open to everything. Our country is not Christian, christianity was simply forced upon people up till a few centuries ago whether they like it or not. There is no heritage or tradition to it; there is simply a reminder of how we are made to say things that we may not want to, just because we are told to. I apologise if you disagree, but that's simply my point of view. I have an internal problem with religion which I'm not going in to here, but I don't like any religion, since people can do things 'in the name of [insert deity here]' that would be considered highly illegal.
Small Frog wrote:
"First off, if you don't want to be called racist, don't be stupid by referring to foreigners as 'Little Mazmud'."
Why dont you read the whole thread before making ridiculous statements like this. In the context of the discussion this remark is
"It's like being made to say the Lord's Prayer daily in primary school. I'm an atheist, so I kicked up hell about
it until the headteacher said that only kids who wanted to say the Lord's Prayer could say it."
Another indication of how things are changing - this is a Christian country - and saying the Lords Prayer is part of our heritage and tradition. Something else that has been stopped in a lot of schools purely so it does not offend 'Little Mazmud'
"First off, if you don't want to be called racist, don't be stupid by referring to foreigners as 'Little Mazmud'."
Why dont you read the whole thread before making ridiculous statements like this. In the context of the discussion this remark is
"It's like being made to say the Lord's Prayer daily in primary school. I'm an atheist, so I kicked up hell about
it until the headteacher said that only kids who wanted to say the Lord's Prayer could say it."
Another indication of how things are changing - this is a Christian country - and saying the Lords Prayer is part of our heritage and tradition. Something else that has been stopped in a lot of schools purely so it does not offend 'Little Mazmud'
I agree - we have much better comedies than anywhere else.
I'm proud of our sense of humour. Just look at those Python blokes - you won't get that from anywhere else!
Ok, so they're not really doing much anymore but still, Monty Pythons Flying Circus, Holy Grail and Life of Brian impress me every viewing!
We may be pretty crap at everything else, but we know how to make me laugh. That'll do me.
Ok, so they're not really doing much anymore but still, Monty Pythons Flying Circus, Holy Grail and Life of Brian impress me every viewing!
We may be pretty crap at everything else, but we know how to make me laugh. That'll do me.
Belldandy wrote:
A superb example
> of unswerving political correctness there..... You're demonstrating exactly what
> most of us have said - it's okay to joke about the white english male but anyone
> else ? Sorry thats racist.......
I don't make jokes about any race. I make a point of it.
Being
> patriotic means giving a damn abut your country and those around you. A country
> is not "just a place" in that sense. It's a home, has a heritage and a
> history, being patriotic means caring about that too, and your country's
> interests at home and abroad.
Our countries history is one of violence. We took over half the world by killing people. Something to be real proud of there. It's the American way - if they oppose you, kill them. Yep, sure is patriotic to support that. Our heritage is based on the royal family - social parasites who do not had the power of life or death over the entire populace. Yep, that's the sort of thing I want to support. Let me spell this out. Monarchy = disguised Dictatorship. I approve of our present government more, but I think we need to sort internal problems out before taking things to the international stage.
Why is America the only Super Power ? Because it's
> one of the few western countries where everyone can still feel patriotic,
i.e. sing about how their country is the best one in the world, and how all the other countries should do whatever they say? Yep, I sure do wanna support that.
back
> in stupid England we're all so busy being PC and hiding away in our own little
> houses and having a go at each other, bad mouthing any country that actually
> treis to do something good, and racking up those credit cards, that we don't
> generally give a toss about England. You're proving this right now ! To quote
> Alan Moore - "Its mean spirited and miserable"
I know what you mean! Heaven forbid we actually try to care about other people's feelings as we interact with them! If they're foreign, we *should* be making racist jokes about them. It's something they should expect for living here. Sod the fact that they must have been starved or persecuted in their own country - they can come here and we'll do it to them all over again.
I don't give a toss about England. Sorry if you do. It's a piece of earth surrounded by water with a name. Nothing more.
And what do you mean, "tries to do something good"? If you're talking about America's slaughter of innocents in their 'war on terror', you don't know what you're talking about. America could actually try to find Osama, instead of just blowing up everywhere till he shows up.
This arguing lark is fun, isn't it? :)
A superb example
> of unswerving political correctness there..... You're demonstrating exactly what
> most of us have said - it's okay to joke about the white english male but anyone
> else ? Sorry thats racist.......
I don't make jokes about any race. I make a point of it.
Being
> patriotic means giving a damn abut your country and those around you. A country
> is not "just a place" in that sense. It's a home, has a heritage and a
> history, being patriotic means caring about that too, and your country's
> interests at home and abroad.
Our countries history is one of violence. We took over half the world by killing people. Something to be real proud of there. It's the American way - if they oppose you, kill them. Yep, sure is patriotic to support that. Our heritage is based on the royal family - social parasites who do not had the power of life or death over the entire populace. Yep, that's the sort of thing I want to support. Let me spell this out. Monarchy = disguised Dictatorship. I approve of our present government more, but I think we need to sort internal problems out before taking things to the international stage.
Why is America the only Super Power ? Because it's
> one of the few western countries where everyone can still feel patriotic,
i.e. sing about how their country is the best one in the world, and how all the other countries should do whatever they say? Yep, I sure do wanna support that.
back
> in stupid England we're all so busy being PC and hiding away in our own little
> houses and having a go at each other, bad mouthing any country that actually
> treis to do something good, and racking up those credit cards, that we don't
> generally give a toss about England. You're proving this right now ! To quote
> Alan Moore - "Its mean spirited and miserable"
I know what you mean! Heaven forbid we actually try to care about other people's feelings as we interact with them! If they're foreign, we *should* be making racist jokes about them. It's something they should expect for living here. Sod the fact that they must have been starved or persecuted in their own country - they can come here and we'll do it to them all over again.
I don't give a toss about England. Sorry if you do. It's a piece of earth surrounded by water with a name. Nothing more.
And what do you mean, "tries to do something good"? If you're talking about America's slaughter of innocents in their 'war on terror', you don't know what you're talking about. America could actually try to find Osama, instead of just blowing up everywhere till he shows up.
This arguing lark is fun, isn't it? :)
Please don't get me wrong - I greatly appreciate the effort that our soldiers made in the wars.
I can simply see no reason to act superior to anywhere else because they are less privileged (sp, sorry) than us - and that's all I see nationalism being used for. I have great respect for people protecting our country from danger, as I have respect for any people protecting any country from danger. I just hate racism in all shapes and forms, and that includes the people that are racist through the veil of nationalism. I know that not all people do, but the loud ones are often bigots.
Guess what? Three people in school today made jokes about the fact I'm Welsh. They think they're better because they're not Welsh, therefore they are racist. That is how I think.
I can simply see no reason to act superior to anywhere else because they are less privileged (sp, sorry) than us - and that's all I see nationalism being used for. I have great respect for people protecting our country from danger, as I have respect for any people protecting any country from danger. I just hate racism in all shapes and forms, and that includes the people that are racist through the veil of nationalism. I know that not all people do, but the loud ones are often bigots.
Guess what? Three people in school today made jokes about the fact I'm Welsh. They think they're better because they're not Welsh, therefore they are racist. That is how I think.
Small Frog wrote:
First off, if you don't want to be called racist, don't be stupid by
> referring to foreigners as 'Little Mazmud'.
A superb example of unswerving political correctness there..... You're demonstrating exactly what most of us have said - it's okay to joke about the white english male but anyone else ? Sorry thats racist.......
>I see no
> reason to be proud of where I live - it's just a place. America are too
> patriotic.
Being patriotic means giving a damn abut your country and those around you. A country is not "just a place" in that sense. It's a home, has a heritage and a history, being patriotic means caring about that too, and your country's interests at home and abroad. Why is America the only Super Power ? Because it's one of the few western countries where everyone can still feel patriotic, back in stupid England we're all so busy being PC and hiding away in our own little houses and having a go at each other, bad mouthing any country that actually treis to do something good, and racking up those credit cards, that we don't generally give a toss about England. You're proving this right now ! To quote Alan Moore - "Its mean spirited and miserable"
First off, if you don't want to be called racist, don't be stupid by
> referring to foreigners as 'Little Mazmud'.
A superb example of unswerving political correctness there..... You're demonstrating exactly what most of us have said - it's okay to joke about the white english male but anyone else ? Sorry thats racist.......
>I see no
> reason to be proud of where I live - it's just a place. America are too
> patriotic.
Being patriotic means giving a damn abut your country and those around you. A country is not "just a place" in that sense. It's a home, has a heritage and a history, being patriotic means caring about that too, and your country's interests at home and abroad. Why is America the only Super Power ? Because it's one of the few western countries where everyone can still feel patriotic, back in stupid England we're all so busy being PC and hiding away in our own little houses and having a go at each other, bad mouthing any country that actually treis to do something good, and racking up those credit cards, that we don't generally give a toss about England. You're proving this right now ! To quote Alan Moore - "Its mean spirited and miserable"
Small Frog wrote:
> I see no reason to be proud of where I
> live - it's just a place.
See, this is part of what I don't understand.
People go on about how bad the Nazi's were.
People - like my grandfather - fought against this, and many thousands died so that this country you refer to as "just a place" could remain free, for the likes of me and you.
That is just part of what I'm not only fiercly proud of, but hugely grateful for.
It's also one of the reasons that many foreigners want to come and live here. I'm not saying that they should be grateful to us, just that they should accept and respect that we are as proud of our roots and history as they are of theirs.
We can't live in the past, but we shouldn't forget it either.
> I see no reason to be proud of where I
> live - it's just a place.
See, this is part of what I don't understand.
People go on about how bad the Nazi's were.
People - like my grandfather - fought against this, and many thousands died so that this country you refer to as "just a place" could remain free, for the likes of me and you.
That is just part of what I'm not only fiercly proud of, but hugely grateful for.
It's also one of the reasons that many foreigners want to come and live here. I'm not saying that they should be grateful to us, just that they should accept and respect that we are as proud of our roots and history as they are of theirs.
We can't live in the past, but we shouldn't forget it either.
Ben Hodgetts wrote:
> wow people agreed with me for a change.
anyway i hope everyone will fly the
> English flag on st georges day as i know i will.
One thing i envy about
> America is apart from being good at almost every sport and then nicking other
> countries boring sports and making them exciting e.g netball - basketball. It's
> the fierce patriot attitude they have of their country.
I believe i'm right in
> saying that either every week or every day schoolchildren in America salute the
> american flag and sing their anthem. Now why can't we do that? Oops i forgot it
> will offend little Mazmud from outer kajikislavistan or some other country.
First off, if you don't want to be called racist, don't be stupid by referring to foreigners as 'Little Mazmud'.
It will offend me. I see no reason to be proud of where I live - it's just a place. America are too patriotic, and that is why they are completely hypocritical about killing as many non-Americans as they want just to keep a small number of Americans alive.
I see nothing wrong with other people being proud of where they live. I just hate them forcing it on me, like you are now. It's like being made to say the Lord's Prayer daily in primary school. I'm an atheist, so I kicked up hell about it until the headteacher said that only kids who wanted to say the Lord's Prayer could say it. The following morning in assembly, the headteacher was the only person saying the Prayer. Hah.
> wow people agreed with me for a change.
anyway i hope everyone will fly the
> English flag on st georges day as i know i will.
One thing i envy about
> America is apart from being good at almost every sport and then nicking other
> countries boring sports and making them exciting e.g netball - basketball. It's
> the fierce patriot attitude they have of their country.
I believe i'm right in
> saying that either every week or every day schoolchildren in America salute the
> american flag and sing their anthem. Now why can't we do that? Oops i forgot it
> will offend little Mazmud from outer kajikislavistan or some other country.
First off, if you don't want to be called racist, don't be stupid by referring to foreigners as 'Little Mazmud'.
It will offend me. I see no reason to be proud of where I live - it's just a place. America are too patriotic, and that is why they are completely hypocritical about killing as many non-Americans as they want just to keep a small number of Americans alive.
I see nothing wrong with other people being proud of where they live. I just hate them forcing it on me, like you are now. It's like being made to say the Lord's Prayer daily in primary school. I'm an atheist, so I kicked up hell about it until the headteacher said that only kids who wanted to say the Lord's Prayer could say it. The following morning in assembly, the headteacher was the only person saying the Prayer. Hah.
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