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"Patriotism (sp?)"

In my view patriotism is being proud of the country you live in.

Am I proud of being English? In a word, not really. The only thing that's happened in my life time that made be proud to be English was when we beat Germany 5-1 in the football last year.

That's it.

Nothing else in my life, since April 21st 1981, has made me proud to be English.

Lot's of things have made me ashamed to be English. Mainly when English people go abroad and cause trouble, slurring our reputation.

I should be proud to be English. Our country has a great history.

But that's it. History. It's past, not now. Not any more. For how long can we rely on things years past to be proud of? For how long can we say "Yeah, but we had the Empire." Had. Not any more.

What are we good at on a global level? Music? Sport? Athletics? Films? Books? Is there any apsect of life where we are acknowledged as being the best?

Perhaps one. The ceremony for the Queen Mum. We're good at pagentry (if that's the right word for it), we're good at pomp and ceremony.

Why is this? Why are we crap at most sports, and face it, we are.

Ok, we're getting better at football, and we're ok-ish at rugby. But that's it. In the US athletes have sponsorship. They don't have to work, they can spend time training.

Over here? Redgrave and Pinsent had to work full time while training for the olympics the other year. This is wrong. Why were they not given sponsorship to help them achieve their best?

Why do we not have academies and things for young people who have an obvious talent, to help them get the most out of that talent?

Not just in sport, but in other things. Music, films, books, art... all the creative things.

I keep mentioning sport but it happens in all aspects of life. Even in politics, we're seen as being America's lapdog.

We do what Europe tells us to do, even on THE most ridiculous things.

Why? We're our own country. We should do what we want to do. Why listen to people in Brussels, who we haven't voted in, to tell us what to do? That's not democracy. Being told what to do by unelected people is not democracy at all. It's a farce.

Result:

I'm am NOT proud to be English at all. Being English sucks.

I want to see our national teams do well, I want to see us do our own thing.

Yes, being in Europe would be good for some things. And we should embrace those things, but we should ignore the crap that seems to come with it.

What's the saying? When in Rome do as the Romans? How about this one: "When in England do as the English"?

The other year Birmingham City Council decided to re-name Christmas to "Winter Festival" or some crap name like that. Why?

To accomodate racial minorities in the city who don't celebrate christmas. They don't celebrate christmas, that's fine with me. But we bloody well do. Why should we change to accomodate them?

I'm not racist at all. But they CHOSE to come here, we didn't FORCE them to. The celebrate their festivals, we celebrate ours. What's the problem?

Political Correctness gone mad, that's the problem.

Anyway, I've written gibberish long enough. Congratulations if you got to the end without skipping the middle out...

Carrick & Dist HPS
Bude - 31/5/14

1st - S Beattie & Dtrs - 1293
2nd - M Owens - 1289
3rd - M Owens - 1259
4th - Elliott Bros - 1258
5th - S Beattie & Dtrs - 1223
6th - T Creighton & Son - 1205
7th - W Degnan & T McKee - 1175
8th - W Degnan & T McKee - 1172
9th - Elliott Bros - 1163
10th - Mr & Mrs K Lavery - 1147
11th - S Beattie & Dtrs - 1147
12th - S Beattie & Dtrs - 1126
13th - Mr & Mrs R Reid - 1052

Belldandy wrote:

>
Okay, this is one of the few kinds of arguments that gets to me. You can
> show compassion for people that may/may not have been killed in a country many
> would have been pressed to find on a map pre 9/11 but the 2893 killed in America
> on 9/11 - they don't matter to you.

Wrong - I knew someone who died there - I have every bit as much drive as you to see those criminals caught and brought to justice. I just can't see a reason to kill citizens who had nothing to do with 11/9, simply because they live in the same country as the people who did. It would be like shooting half of london because a cockney man blew up an Irish shopping mall.


The Taliban had 30 days to surrender before
> Enduring Freedom launched, did they NOT ONE BIT. They had tha chance to
> surrender and didn't - therefore every civlian who dies is on their conscience.
> NO SUPPORTER OF THE TALIBAN CAN EXPLAIN HOW ENDURING FREEDOM IS UNJUST WHEN THE
> TALIBAN COULD HAVE SURRENEDERED.

Surely that means that the Taliban should be shot, not the people who are forced to support them in fear of death?

If it wasn't for all
> you PC "I hate America" people CLinton could have wiped out Osama ages
> ago when he was in office.

I don't hate America. I have an intense dislike for the current administration - particularly Bush - and their policies (i.e. the kyoto agreement). There is a difference.

proportioN, must have misread the dictionary or something.

I don't need to use a dictionary, it just comes to me. Sorry if it seems big-headed but that's the way I write. Thanks for a far better argument, I think the M*zmud thing has blown up out of proportiom. Your argument is buttressed by less-bigoted opinion than before, so that surely helps. I take your views on humour allieviating boredom, but it can be offensive, if not to you, to others. But you apologised, so that's it, it's over, done.

ok this whole Mazmud business which has gone way out of control let me put straight. When i make points i like to add humour into what i say. I feel this makes it more interesting to read and also i can't really stand to be serious for a very long period of time. I'm bored with myself when i'm serious so in my opinion if i'm boring myself by doing this then i must be boring the person i am speaking to. I like to entertain my reader or audience. So when writing the post which is giving me big grief i thought up a name of my character which would go in the post. In about 3 seconds i had just made up a name which turned out to be Mazmud. That's all it was just a made up name. I wasn't sitting there at my computer for 3 hours trying to think up the most offensive name i could i just wrote it in my post as i thought it would bring humour but however i was wrong. If it has caused genuine upset then i am sorry. All the hassle i've gotten from it i wish i hadn't wrote his name in now and just called him student X.

anyway let me reply to your comments about my post and i will show you respect which you didn't show me, for some reason you just attacked my post. At no point did i say "Hu hu I was only joking! Can't you take a joke?" in my post. The point i made which i think is valid was that shows such as Monty Python in these times would never have been allowed on the television for fear it might offend some people. Now the makers of Monty Python didn't mean any offence to anyone they just wanted to make people laugh by using certain stereotypes of countries to accomplish these means. I was saying people need to be able to laugh about these things with each other instead of being offended by it. However if jokes like that are made, are serious and meant to cause offence then i don't agree with that at all. I agree that is totally wrong.

Your story about Cal i found quite funny. I went to a predominatly black school and i really didn't care what colour everyone was. I made alot of friends and we always used to joke about me being white and hanging out with them. I had no problem with this i enjoyed the jokes we made about each other and that was it, Jokes. Everyone got along and only when we made these jokes did we realise that we were different because of the colour of our skin. Apart from this we were pretty much exactly the same people. I hope you enjoyed my story.

Also on your point about my post not having coherent sentences. Well i understood it, i could follow the points and knew basically the things i was trying to get across. Now i'm not claiming to be the smartest person in the world and i'm not going to be winning any prizes for being the brainiest so if i can understand my post then i'm sure everyone else will be able to as well.

by the way and i'm going to point this out so you know it's a joke and means no offence ok but did you use a dictionary with that post or something.


I hope you see i've shown you respect in this post and i hope if you reply you return the favour.

In the words of Samuel L. Jackson, "allow me to retort."

The Mazmud business is inappropriate I feel, and I am not a PC brigadier, I just don't like it. It doesn't sit well in a country in which people have many varied and different types of names, that they would hope people are mature enough to accept. It's just common sense. Stereotypes really aren't fair to anyone, and sadly I feel it's got in the way of what could have been some constructive criticism, let down by clumsily articulating your simplistic comments.

I for one adore Monty Python, Blackadder, Fawlty Towers, Dad's Army et al, and I appreciate genuine satire and wit. Having an idiotic rant about something and then say "Hu hu I was only joking! Can't you take a joke?" is the sign of an insecure orator. It is perfectly acceptable- nay, desirable- to be in a position whereby people of all races and backgrounds make cracks about each other, with no-one feeling threatened whatsoever, and understanding without being told that it was just a joke. But it's not a joke when you're try but fail to make a point through humour, when it's just plain offensive.

Let me tell you a story. I went to a very multicultural secondary school, in which people did make jokes about each other all the time, but always in good taste. On the final day of school, outside the sixth-form common room, a black friend of mine called Cal put a sign up above the main drinking fountain that read "Whites Only". It was ironic, poignant, satirical and above all, hilarious. For a couple of days, it became obvious that all the lads felt the same way about it. However, he was called into the headmaster's room three days after it. He was told by the headmaster that this behaviour was simply unacceptable in this school, and the school had no other option but to discipline him through suspension. This scared the 5hit out of Cal, and just when he thought he had been read his last rites, the headmaster broke into laughter, congratulating him on his little jaunt, and told him it was the funniest thing he'd seen in a long time.

I didn't mean to go on at such length (no doubt you've already been bored), but I felt I needed to prove a point. And as for your thoughts on American reaction to terrorism, this is unrelated to the topic thread. And the whole point of wars is that they end up costing innocent civilians lives, THAT'S WHY WE DON'T LIKE THEM. It won't do to say, well, if wars are taking place, don't be surprised to see a few people die; you're are clearly missing the whole point. And before you say, why don't you try reading the whole thing first, I did, and that's what you said. So deal with it.

And it wouldn't hurt if you formulated your diatribe into coherent sentences, it's what separates us from philistines. Or not, as the case may be.

*turned out to be quite long so hold on with it*

oh here we go Ben makes a little joke using the name of Mazmud and all the PC brigade jump on it.
*oh no Ben you can't say that, that's racist that is, your stupid blah blah bloody blah*
it was a little joke to get a valid point across that is if you actually bothered to read the rest of the post before you jumped upon it. If you won't me to apologise for making a supposed racist remark then no i won't it was intended as a joke and upon typing had no racist hatred involved in it at all so no i'm not going to say sorry. It's the just the same as people saying taffy or whatever it's a joke. People joke about the english all the time, but do i get offended? no i don't, because unlike the ever increasing circle of PC people now i have a sense of humour. I don't find it offensive i find it funny. The stereotype of the english all being snobs. Well come down my area and you'd soon learn the truth. However i don't find it offensive again i find it funny that people can be so wrong. Shows such as Monty Python with that memorable sketch with the french man up on the castle slinging abuse down in a very stereotypical french way, shows such as Allo Allo, Alf Garnet and to some extent one foot in the grave would never be made today for fear it may offend some people. Well if you can't take a joke about your country then sorry that's your bloody problem and why should it have to affect me.
You say we live in a democracy and free world and foreigners should be able to do and say what they like. Well here's a novel idea, why not switch that round so english people or whatever country is in the picture here why can't we say or do whatever we like? Ooooopps silly me again i forgot we can't say what we like as that's racist and not politically correct keep forgetting that sorry. Apart from feminism it's the biggest load of hypocritical rubbish ever. One rule for us one rule for the rest

Now if you think i'm making a big joke out of it and not taking it serious then you'd be absolutely 100% right. i am taking it lightly and making fun because personally in MY opinion this whole racism and political correctness is one big stupid joke. One side of the spectrum can say the hell they like and make fun of the other colour but it can't be the other way round. Why's that? For all those people like that please for all our sakes, all of us with half a brain either shut up or get a sense of humour puh-lease because your boring me and probably everyone else with your self righteous mumbo jumbo.

now onto a serious issue that is 9/11. The only people you can blame for everything that happened after that is the taliban leaders. I think America were more than patient giving them a whole month before using any action. How many of us thought america would just rush in and bomb everyone and then get the proof. Well you were all wrong. Bush is nowhere near as stupid as he looks in fact he's a very smart man. He got his people to gather all the proof they could and then proved that laden was responsible. Of course that weren't good enough for the america haters they still couldn't see why America were getting ready for military action. I'm sorry but if you can't see that America has the right to defending itself, defending the right to live in a country without fear and not having to worry about every single plane flying above you whether that'll be the next one to go flying into a building, then you must be a member of the taliban because anyone else could see america have been totally justified in their actions. There has been accidents yes but i challenge you in EVERY single war that has happened in recent years, name me one where everything has gone according to plan and not one innocent person has died, i bet you'll be still sitting their going through your records in 10 years time because there isn't one there's always accidents in war. You know i sometimes think America would have been better off flying planes into buildings in afghanistan and not bother with dropping bombs at all because it seems all the suicide bombers are the ones who get the sympathy. Never mind the fact thousands of people died on 9/11 nah that don't matter they're only americans who cares right? I always get worked up about this fact and how anyone can have a go for america about this.
People point out but they still haven't got laden yet. Yes but i don't remember ever Bush saying that they'd find bin laden the first day they arrived. He said this is a war that may take years to finish and if it does take years just so that everyone can have freedom in the end of it then i'm prepared to wait. You try finding a needle in a haystack, pretty hard isn't it? Well use that analogy for Laden and you'll realise they aren't going to find him so easily. However they have accomplished virtually destroying the al qaida (sp?) network which was one of the mission objectives.
My conclusion is with a question for you to think about. What if those planes on 9/11 had hit the taj mahal (sp?), the sydney opera house, the eiffel tower or the leaning tower of piza. Would you have felt any different? Would you have cared more? because the only reason i think people have this reservations is because they hit America, the land of the free and the biggest superpower. Now you may think i'm just being suspicious but think about really hard for a while and i bet the only reason the world weren't out in full force condemning the attacks instead of, in some countries celebrating in the streets (which was absolutely sick) was because they did attack America otherwise everyone would be angry about the attacks

Small Frog wrote:


The point of our country - a democracy, remember? - is to be open to everything.



Which is exactly what the people in here have been saying, we are open to everything but the problem comes when it is to the detriment of the values, traditions and history of our country.

We are suffering - for want of a better term - "Reverse racism" through the Political Correctness nonsense that is taking over everything we do. When nursery rhymes like Baa Baa Black sheep get banned you really do have to wonder whta the hell is going on !

Small Frog wrote:
> I can simply see no reason to act superior to anywhere else
> because they are less privileged (sp, sorry) than us - and that's all I see
> nationalism being used for.

Who here has said anything about being superior? Again, this is the racists confusing the issue. Nationalism is simply being proud of your country, not looking down on others.

As for the jokes... yes, I tell and laugh at jokes which people would consider 'politically incorrect', because that's all they are - jokes. I separate the humour from any malicious intent.

My immediate heritage from the previous generations is English, Irish, Jewish, Greek and South African, so I'm hardly of 'pure blood' myself. But tell me a decent joke about any of those ethnic groups, and I'll laugh at them all equally without any offence.

I find many of the stereotypes highly amusing - the stupid Irishman, the Scotsman/Jew who won't spend money, the Welshman who has sex with sheep, the Asian who works in a corner shop etc. - but I do of course realise that that is all they are, and that nothing about them is necessarily accurate in any sense of the word.

I saw an Asian comedy programme on BBC2 some months ago, with many ethnic comedians. It was genuinely funny, but I did have a problem with it. The audience was made up of all races - white, black, Asian, Oriental. There were blacks telling jokes about Asians, whites and orientals; Asians telling jokes about blacks, whites and orientals; orientals telling jokes about blacks, whites and Asians. And everyone in the audience was laughing together. "That is how it should be," I thought. "Humour without the hatred."

It was only after the programme finished that it dawned on me. There had not been one white person telling jokes about any other ethnic group. How many complaints would BBC have had if a white man had got up on stage and told a joke about any one of those other ethnic groups?

Equality is a great idea, but it must really *be* equality, otherwise it breeds resentment, and it will never, ever work.

I would like to apologise for continuing the Little Mazmud joke because it is racist, and is tangential to my argument. I am a big exponent of multi-culturalism, I just don't understand why this has come to mean rubbishing the English values. I find the history of the British Empire abhorrent, despise the monarchy and hate football hooligans soiling our name abroad. But the values I'm referring to are the good-humoured ones, such as our quirky sense of humour, our great capital London, our cosmopolitan society, our reputation overseas, our bizarre conventions, our dwindling satirists, the quality of our arts, the great British companies known all over the world like the BBC, our journalism, our 'English' eccentricity, even our c***-ups. Positive attributes I feel. Not petty nationalism. Some of the views here would resemble the minutes of a National Front recruitment meeting. So if you're not Christian, or for any reason whatsoever and without qualification, if you don't wish to recite the Lord's prayer or whatever it is, you shouldn't. And if you're an immigrant, as my family until recently was, be proud of where you're from, but also where you're at right now. Just integrate, like the US has done so succesfully.