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Ok, I'm interested. Lets have a look at the kind of websites you've all designed. Perhaps post 2 or 3 of the ones your most proud of.
My 3 are...
www.andi.tk
www.l2productions.co.uk
www.lewq.2y.net/andi/iroko
The last one, IROKO, is still under construction, but i like the design of it and its different from my others.
So, post away, increase your hit counts and lets get some constructive critacism (sp?) going.
My 3 are...
www.andi.tk
www.l2productions.co.uk
www.lewq.2y.net/andi/iroko
The last one, IROKO, is still under construction, but i like the design of it and its different from my others.
So, post away, increase your hit counts and lets get some constructive critacism (sp?) going.
Page:
Yeah, it is.
Hmm.
If you want to see any of my stuff, I should get home around 3pm tomorrow, when I'll fire up my server and you can have a look. http://turbonutter.2y.net/
Hmm.
If you want to see any of my stuff, I should get home around 3pm tomorrow, when I'll fire up my server and you can have a look. http://turbonutter.2y.net/
Turbonutter wrote:
> Gar-J - a polite question. Have you even seen any of my work? As far as I know,
> I haven't yet claimed to be a designer/developer at all.
No mate I haven't, but I decided to take a leaf out of your book and slate you even though I don't know any of the facts.
It was fun - I can see why you do it.
> Gar-J - a polite question. Have you even seen any of my work? As far as I know,
> I haven't yet claimed to be a designer/developer at all.
No mate I haven't, but I decided to take a leaf out of your book and slate you even though I don't know any of the facts.
It was fun - I can see why you do it.
Garin wrote:
> Gar-J,
I find it quite interesting that YOU are allowed to judge yourself a
> programmer, but people on here aren't allowed to judge themselves as web
> designers.
I've already said THREE times, one of which was just LAST NIGHT, that I KNOW there ARE web designers in here, SOME of which DO NOT have any EXPERIENCE.
Jesus Christ, half of this argument is just repetition.
I hope that since this time that's the ONLY thing I said, you will be able to SEE and UNDERSTAND it, and therefore NOT claim that I have said no-one here can call themselves a web designer.
For the love of God, please let your bl00dy eyes work this time.
> Gar-J,
I find it quite interesting that YOU are allowed to judge yourself a
> programmer, but people on here aren't allowed to judge themselves as web
> designers.
I've already said THREE times, one of which was just LAST NIGHT, that I KNOW there ARE web designers in here, SOME of which DO NOT have any EXPERIENCE.
Jesus Christ, half of this argument is just repetition.
I hope that since this time that's the ONLY thing I said, you will be able to SEE and UNDERSTAND it, and therefore NOT claim that I have said no-one here can call themselves a web designer.
For the love of God, please let your bl00dy eyes work this time.
Gar-J - a polite question. Have you even seen any of my work? As far as I know, I haven't yet claimed to be a designer/developer at all.
Gar-J,
I find it quite interesting that YOU are allowed to judge yourself a programmer, but people on here aren't allowed to judge themselves as web designers. And more to the point, who are you to judge others in a field in which you freely admit you are on the fringe of at best.
In the end this is silly elitism, nothing more... You can't call yourself a web designer until blah..blah.. As I showed, I can be elitist too about programming, I can dismiss you, your work, and your accomplishments so easily. Silly really isn't it?
Its only a title. I can appreciate those that have earned the job title might be a little put out, but you don't fall into that category anyway. But for me its a little like David Beckham objecting to somebody who plays for eg Colwyn Bay (my local team) calling themselves a footballer. Both doing the same thing, just at different levels, one gets paid, one doesn't. Its a job for one, a hobby for the other. And no, I don't believe David Beckham would object. :)
-G
I find it quite interesting that YOU are allowed to judge yourself a programmer, but people on here aren't allowed to judge themselves as web designers. And more to the point, who are you to judge others in a field in which you freely admit you are on the fringe of at best.
In the end this is silly elitism, nothing more... You can't call yourself a web designer until blah..blah.. As I showed, I can be elitist too about programming, I can dismiss you, your work, and your accomplishments so easily. Silly really isn't it?
Its only a title. I can appreciate those that have earned the job title might be a little put out, but you don't fall into that category anyway. But for me its a little like David Beckham objecting to somebody who plays for eg Colwyn Bay (my local team) calling themselves a footballer. Both doing the same thing, just at different levels, one gets paid, one doesn't. Its a job for one, a hobby for the other. And no, I don't believe David Beckham would object. :)
-G
Whooo! wrote:
> Mr Gar-J, we're all bored now, kindly go away until you have some half decent
> comments to make..
Oh, I noticed you didnt reply to Garin, I wonder why that
> is...
The fact that the only thing you can tell me to do is go away makes me very happy. It proves I was right, and you have NO argument with me.
By the way, I HAVE written to Garin, but typing all that took some time you know?
Now kindly do ME a favour and off somewhere where you're wanted, if such a place exists.
Or at least TRY and think of a decent reply besides 'Please go away you have upset me cos now I know I'm a crap designer. Please leave me alone now you have done your damage. I want to try and sink back into my little bubble of self-indulgence and ignorance. I want to pretend the stuff I produce is passable as more than just'.
You really make me laugh. Yes, you may crawl back into your pathetic little shell now mate. :oP
> Mr Gar-J, we're all bored now, kindly go away until you have some half decent
> comments to make..
Oh, I noticed you didnt reply to Garin, I wonder why that
> is...
The fact that the only thing you can tell me to do is go away makes me very happy. It proves I was right, and you have NO argument with me.
By the way, I HAVE written to Garin, but typing all that took some time you know?
Now kindly do ME a favour and off somewhere where you're wanted, if such a place exists.
Or at least TRY and think of a decent reply besides 'Please go away you have upset me cos now I know I'm a crap designer. Please leave me alone now you have done your damage. I want to try and sink back into my little bubble of self-indulgence and ignorance. I want to pretend the stuff I produce is passable as more than just'.
You really make me laugh. Yes, you may crawl back into your pathetic little shell now mate. :oP
Ah, I've come up the discussion and I've reached Garin's post. Although it’s clear you’re having a dig at me, I am grateful to you for at least not being a w@nker like Whooo and Turbonutter. You actually read my posts, understood what I said and answered based on that, which are three things more than what those two idiots can manage between them.
Now, on to the reply.
I've had my job for seven months. Hardly what I'd call just walking into a job, but I admit I haven't had the 10 years of experience you are referring to.
However, within that 7 months (actually, they decided a couple of months back so really it only took about 5-6 months), the college I work for has decided to extend my initial 1 year contract to a full-time one in July. That is as lead programmer in a new franchise they're setting up.
Although I am really lacking in the experience side of things (you should have seen how many jobs were asking for 2 years' experience when I was looking around. It was heart-breaking), I have programmed things that a 38 year old programmer in the college with 12 years experience has not been able to. Yes, he also has a degree. Some of this work is in Java, but most is in Delphi and C++. I consider this as an achievement in itself, and while not trying to blow my own trumpet, you can't tell me that isn't impressive? After all as you noticed, I'm fresh out of college and haven't been to University. To me, this fact is worth more than having a degree, and my employers seemingly share my opinion.
Either the code works and does what it should, or it doesn't. This is true for whoever is using the computer and the programs you've written. Yes there is code efficiency, number of variables used etc. but we'll just assume we're talking about well-written code here. Design is subjective - it can work, work well, not work well or not work at all, ALL based on the individual you ask.
While I do get a lot of satisfaction from coding stuff that's harder than a lot of University stuff, I'm not here to talk about that so I'm just trying to cover it enough to prove my point.
Bearing in mind that Turbonutter and Whooo will read this I had better explain my point in more simplistic terms. Maybe I'll include a glossary of key words at the end too so they can look up the more complicated words used here.
I am not a web designer. I know some basics, but that's all because I work next to a designer all day. I admit that my web designing skills are very basic, but at the end of the day that is why I do not go on forums claiming to be a design guru like some people I could name...
I have said I am a programmer, and I believe that I am. I believe that I have a good enough reason to claim that, even though I do not have the experience behind me. That will come.
As I said in a previous post, I know there are true web designers around and they have no experience - they are in the minority, and possess a very lucky gift, but they still know their stuff. So, I'm obviously not directing any of this at them, so if there are any reading don't feel like slating me! Just because Whooo and Turbonutter don't understand that, doesn't mean they're right. :oP
In the same way, I do not have programming experience behind me but I'd like to think I know my stuff when it comes to programming.
That is why I come here and claim to be a programmer, and NOT a web designer.
That is also why I come here and can't believe some people claim to be web designers. You can't tell me everyone who comes in here is one of the lucky ones that can just design amazing things without being taught? Exactly. These people exist, but not in such large quantities. So why do they claim to be? This is what I've been asking since my first post.
As for your tag argument, to me that doesn't really stand up. The 'Web designer' term is made up of two simple words, and it implies you design websites.
If someone knocked on your door and said he was police, would you find it acceptable if you later found out he was just neighbourhood watch? No of course not. Would you let a dentist give you an operation on a dodgy knee joint if he said he was a surgeon? No of course not.
So why do you find it so acceptable that people who just bang out HTML into Notepad can call themselves web designers? It's not as pedantic as you claim.
Maybe it isn't a topic worth the 20-or-so replies and posts my initial post spawned, but the fact that it's generated such controversy is down to Whooo and Turbonutter just completely twisting everything I say and raving and ranting about stuff I didn't even post, telling me to get lost and everything else.
My original intention was for just the single post to air my opinion... little did I know my opinion was so threatening and unwelcome to these 'web designers'/people who bang out HTML in Notepad that I would be attacked so much.
Anyway, hope this has cleared things up. I'm a programmer because that's what I do and I have reasons to believe I do it well. I am not a web designer because I can't design websites. I am not a dentist cos I don't work with people's teeth, and I am not a brickie cos I don't work with bricks and build houses.
So, the sooner Turbonutter and Whooo stop claiming to be 'web designers', the sooner the meaning of these two words can have their true meanings returned to them. Maybe we can have a fresh feeling in here now, rather than the atmosphere that has developed, and try to think of a new name for Whooo and Turbonutter’s past-time. ‘Web designers’ just doesn’t do it. Programmers is closer, because at least they write their own HTML, but then that is insulting another group of people – the programmers! Then I’ll have to join a programming forum and post my opinion that there’s a difference between people like Turbonutter and Whooo and real programmers! Damn, I can’t win.
Let’s make up a new term – one that doesn’t offend any other group and one that doesn’t distort what they actually do.
No, w@nkers can’t be used – we don’t want to offend this group either!
By the way, apologies for the length of this post. It just grew and grew.
Now, on to the reply.
I've had my job for seven months. Hardly what I'd call just walking into a job, but I admit I haven't had the 10 years of experience you are referring to.
However, within that 7 months (actually, they decided a couple of months back so really it only took about 5-6 months), the college I work for has decided to extend my initial 1 year contract to a full-time one in July. That is as lead programmer in a new franchise they're setting up.
Although I am really lacking in the experience side of things (you should have seen how many jobs were asking for 2 years' experience when I was looking around. It was heart-breaking), I have programmed things that a 38 year old programmer in the college with 12 years experience has not been able to. Yes, he also has a degree. Some of this work is in Java, but most is in Delphi and C++. I consider this as an achievement in itself, and while not trying to blow my own trumpet, you can't tell me that isn't impressive? After all as you noticed, I'm fresh out of college and haven't been to University. To me, this fact is worth more than having a degree, and my employers seemingly share my opinion.
Either the code works and does what it should, or it doesn't. This is true for whoever is using the computer and the programs you've written. Yes there is code efficiency, number of variables used etc. but we'll just assume we're talking about well-written code here. Design is subjective - it can work, work well, not work well or not work at all, ALL based on the individual you ask.
While I do get a lot of satisfaction from coding stuff that's harder than a lot of University stuff, I'm not here to talk about that so I'm just trying to cover it enough to prove my point.
Bearing in mind that Turbonutter and Whooo will read this I had better explain my point in more simplistic terms. Maybe I'll include a glossary of key words at the end too so they can look up the more complicated words used here.
I am not a web designer. I know some basics, but that's all because I work next to a designer all day. I admit that my web designing skills are very basic, but at the end of the day that is why I do not go on forums claiming to be a design guru like some people I could name...
I have said I am a programmer, and I believe that I am. I believe that I have a good enough reason to claim that, even though I do not have the experience behind me. That will come.
As I said in a previous post, I know there are true web designers around and they have no experience - they are in the minority, and possess a very lucky gift, but they still know their stuff. So, I'm obviously not directing any of this at them, so if there are any reading don't feel like slating me! Just because Whooo and Turbonutter don't understand that, doesn't mean they're right. :oP
In the same way, I do not have programming experience behind me but I'd like to think I know my stuff when it comes to programming.
That is why I come here and claim to be a programmer, and NOT a web designer.
That is also why I come here and can't believe some people claim to be web designers. You can't tell me everyone who comes in here is one of the lucky ones that can just design amazing things without being taught? Exactly. These people exist, but not in such large quantities. So why do they claim to be? This is what I've been asking since my first post.
As for your tag argument, to me that doesn't really stand up. The 'Web designer' term is made up of two simple words, and it implies you design websites.
If someone knocked on your door and said he was police, would you find it acceptable if you later found out he was just neighbourhood watch? No of course not. Would you let a dentist give you an operation on a dodgy knee joint if he said he was a surgeon? No of course not.
So why do you find it so acceptable that people who just bang out HTML into Notepad can call themselves web designers? It's not as pedantic as you claim.
Maybe it isn't a topic worth the 20-or-so replies and posts my initial post spawned, but the fact that it's generated such controversy is down to Whooo and Turbonutter just completely twisting everything I say and raving and ranting about stuff I didn't even post, telling me to get lost and everything else.
My original intention was for just the single post to air my opinion... little did I know my opinion was so threatening and unwelcome to these 'web designers'/people who bang out HTML in Notepad that I would be attacked so much.
Anyway, hope this has cleared things up. I'm a programmer because that's what I do and I have reasons to believe I do it well. I am not a web designer because I can't design websites. I am not a dentist cos I don't work with people's teeth, and I am not a brickie cos I don't work with bricks and build houses.
So, the sooner Turbonutter and Whooo stop claiming to be 'web designers', the sooner the meaning of these two words can have their true meanings returned to them. Maybe we can have a fresh feeling in here now, rather than the atmosphere that has developed, and try to think of a new name for Whooo and Turbonutter’s past-time. ‘Web designers’ just doesn’t do it. Programmers is closer, because at least they write their own HTML, but then that is insulting another group of people – the programmers! Then I’ll have to join a programming forum and post my opinion that there’s a difference between people like Turbonutter and Whooo and real programmers! Damn, I can’t win.
Let’s make up a new term – one that doesn’t offend any other group and one that doesn’t distort what they actually do.
No, w@nkers can’t be used – we don’t want to offend this group either!
By the way, apologies for the length of this post. It just grew and grew.
Mr Gar-J, we're all bored now, kindly go away until you have some half decent comments to make..
Oh, I noticed you didnt reply to Garin, I wonder why that is...
Oh, I noticed you didnt reply to Garin, I wonder why that is...
Right, been following this topic every day, bit bored now.***s off Gar-J. Cough.
I don't proclaim to be a good designer, I don't do it enough to call myself one really, I'm far more in to PC hardware/gaming stuff. However, these people are trying to be. You're right, most people here are not professional standard, but they're only going to get there by practising, and popping up to comment on how much they suck isn't going to help them with that (don't care what you say about making "constructive comments" or whatever earlier in the thread, all you're doing now is throwing insults).
What's wrong with them having a bit of confidence in themselves? We're all open to constructive criticisms, we welcome it, but popping up and ranting a bit doesn't get anywhere..
*scurries back off inside pc case*
I don't proclaim to be a good designer, I don't do it enough to call myself one really, I'm far more in to PC hardware/gaming stuff. However, these people are trying to be. You're right, most people here are not professional standard, but they're only going to get there by practising, and popping up to comment on how much they suck isn't going to help them with that (don't care what you say about making "constructive comments" or whatever earlier in the thread, all you're doing now is throwing insults).
What's wrong with them having a bit of confidence in themselves? We're all open to constructive criticisms, we welcome it, but popping up and ranting a bit doesn't get anywhere..
*scurries back off inside pc case*
Armatige Shanks wrote:
> Although it seems like pretty treacherous waters here, here are my two
> efforts...
http://www.the-quill.co.uk
http://www.cazbo.co.uk
Neither of
> them are particuarly good, and I'm definitly not a Web Designer, I just fancied
> having a go :)
Without even looking at your sites, I COMMEND your honesty mate. You freely admit that you're not a web designer. So, that makes two of us. Hopefully it's just a matter of time before Turbow@nker wakes up and joins us!!
Want a pint? Honest and realistic people are hard to find on here. There's funkygamer, you, fogmaster and me... out of how many people on this forum that really aren't web designers.
Come on Turbow@nker you can't run for ever. Sooner or later you'll have to admit I'm right, leave the 'web designer' title to actual web designers and kiss my ar5e for being so lame in the first place. Whooo, that goes to you too.
> Although it seems like pretty treacherous waters here, here are my two
> efforts...
http://www.the-quill.co.uk
http://www.cazbo.co.uk
Neither of
> them are particuarly good, and I'm definitly not a Web Designer, I just fancied
> having a go :)
Without even looking at your sites, I COMMEND your honesty mate. You freely admit that you're not a web designer. So, that makes two of us. Hopefully it's just a matter of time before Turbow@nker wakes up and joins us!!
Want a pint? Honest and realistic people are hard to find on here. There's funkygamer, you, fogmaster and me... out of how many people on this forum that really aren't web designers.
Come on Turbow@nker you can't run for ever. Sooner or later you'll have to admit I'm right, leave the 'web designer' title to actual web designers and kiss my ar5e for being so lame in the first place. Whooo, that goes to you too.
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