Viewing Thread:
"Hooligan: a petition"

Goatboy's excellent thread on this game has got a lot of people thinking it seems. Maybe we should do something about it. Someone suggested it at the time, but why not ask Special Reserve not to sell it?

I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe in choice and that your choices say a lot about your character. We have a choice not to buy the game. Special Reserve have a choice not to sell and profit from it. So if you would rather SR didn't sell Hooligan then make your feelings known here.

(By the way, this isn't some anti-SR thing: great company, good value, nice forums. But we ALL need to take a stand against fascism, even as 'entertainment'.)

The valid solution is the removal of nazi material offered up as entertainment.

You can't get more valid than that.
Racist/Facist material is illegal, that's why the BNP are not allowed air-time on any medium.
That is why wars have been fought against this.
There is no benefit to allowing this evil idealism to be made available.

And it is not infringing your rights to say "This is totally unacceptable and should not be in the public conscience".
There must come a point where you say "This is wrong and serves nothing but hate and vile actions" and realise that you lose nothing at all by this sort of thing being removed from the shelves.

This isn't about personal choice, this is about combatting one of the most insidious political agendas this world has ever seen.
Facism is on a level with child pornography - utterly unacceptable on any level and will not be tolerated by anyone other than sympathisers.

I would no more expect to find "Tiny Tot Sex Murder" to buy from SR than I would Hooligan.
There is no excuse for creating this game, no excuse available for playing it and no excuse for being a willing participant in stocking and selling facist/nazi material.

However, it is SR choice and that's why some of us have politely requested that they may perhaps consider the ethics of supplying a game on a family website, where swearing is not tolerated on forums or bullying.
Yet I can purchase a game created by, concerning and intended for Facist animals.

Goatboy wrote:
Armitage/Wookie etc, facism is not
> "personal choice".
To fight against it is not to infringe civil
> liberties.
Once you ally yourself with a hateful, evil idealism such as facism,
> then you forfeit your right to be treated with respect and thought.


In this thread, especially, I'm not arguing against facism, I'm arguing against the thread, its proposals and form of execution.

I dont think anyone here is pro-facism, or condones the subject matter of the game, just that the proposed method for dealing with the problem wont produce a valid solution

No Totoro, they havent got what they want. None of us, hopefully, would even consider buying this game, and theres every chance that more forums across the internet will pick up on this game. If this stops just one person buying the game then its been worth every word.

If you want to sit back, fine, but your freedom to sit back and do nothing was bought by the lives of men and women that thought differently back in 1939.

Goatboy wrote:
> Primo Levi
"Silence is the greatest offence you can commit in the face of
> facism and overwhelming evils"
----

Written by a man that survived Auschwitz and has 1st hand knowledge of where facism leads.

I will never, ever stand back and be silent where matters of such importance as this are prevelant.

Free advertising beats saying nothing and allowing this to be the start of nazi idealogy reaching shelves nestled between Half-Life and Hexen.

When you cause all this uproar then the developers of a bad game like this get just what they want: more advertising.

They've sucked you in with the terrible subject matter and have achieved their goals, so part of their success that they could possibly achieve with this game is partly down to those who have given it controversial & cult status and free advertising.

This is really getting me angry.

Armitage/Wookie etc, facism is not "personal choice".
To fight against it is not to infringe civil liberties.
Once you ally yourself with a hateful, evil idealism such as facism, then you forfeit your right to be treated with respect and thought.

Hitler made his "personal decision" to follow facism, and look what happened.
In Germany, facist material (literature/games/books etc) are absolutely illegal. Because, of all the countries, they have the experience of what letting people "decide for themselves" leads to with facism.

I will stand up for the rights of anyone, but when that same person commits race-hate crimes then I will be the first in line to condemn you in the most swift and brutal manner I possibly can.

Facism, Nazism and other forms of intolerant hate must be met with unwavering determination and a pro-active manner otherwise, if ignored, it will fester unseen and can only lead to bad things.

There is not a single benefit that has ever arisen from facism.
People have the right to live without fear of murder and attack for simply being who they are.
And anything that presents a threat to this ideal of "Live and let live" must be dealt with, not ignored in the hope it will go away.

Facism will not just go away, it will attract the moronic, hate-filled elements of society that only seek a reason to attack.
Providing material to further this cause is absolutely, 100%, morally wrong.

And to allow this because "I don't want to be told not to" it to negate the millions of people that have been murdered through facism.

If nothing else, the sacrifice of being able to purchase this game should be nothing compared to the sacrifices made by those that have died fighting the very ideas promoted in this game.

Armatige Shanks wrote:

>Creating such a reactionary, incitful thread which is proposing to removing my choice in the name of freedom is more offensive to me than the game its protesting against.

I didn't create this thread to remove your choice: it was meant as a gentle suggestion to SR that maybe they shouldn't sell it. I think if you are desperate and old enough to want to get your hands on this sort of material then you should be prepared to work for it. As I said in the other Hooligan thread:

Anyone who wants to pretend to be a fascist thug by playing this game, and who whines that they're old enough to make up they're own mind, should have to go into a Chelsea Headhunters' pub and ask a skinhead for it personally. Then they'll be well equipped to decide if this is the sort of person they want to emulate.

I should add that people should have to visit a holocaust museum before buying it as well. Or read something longer than an instruction manual about fascism.

Armatige Shanks wrote:
I'm not validating
> Child Pornography, equally, I'm validating Facist behaviour, Its the choice of
> the individual to decide what they want to do and dont want to do...

You're saying we can all do whatever we want, not matter who we harm whilst doing it, and that that is okay because we all have the right to do that.


Creating
> such a reactionary, incitful thread which is proposing to removing my choice in
> the name of freedom is more offensive to me than the game its protesting
> against.

We're all saying this gaem should not have been even thought about, that Sr and other should not sell it ? If you disagree then I suggest you start a "Vote For Hooligan To Be Sold" topic. Go on, try it.

unknown kernel wrote:
> Armatige Shanks wrote:

> I'm not validating Child Pornography, equally,
> I'm validating Facist behaviour,

An unfortuante typo.

we hope! :D

Armatige Shanks wrote:

> I'm not validating Child Pornography, equally, I'm validating Facist behaviour,

An unfortuante typo.