Viewing Thread:
"Hooligan: a petition"

Goatboy's excellent thread on this game has got a lot of people thinking it seems. Maybe we should do something about it. Someone suggested it at the time, but why not ask Special Reserve not to sell it?

I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe in choice and that your choices say a lot about your character. We have a choice not to buy the game. Special Reserve have a choice not to sell and profit from it. So if you would rather SR didn't sell Hooligan then make your feelings known here.

(By the way, this isn't some anti-SR thing: great company, good value, nice forums. But we ALL need to take a stand against fascism, even as 'entertainment'.)

Goatboy wrote:

And the cause of facism is
> ignorance and the continued allowance of offensive and inexcusable mindsets that
> nobody can justify in any manner whatsoever.
The cause of it is resentment by a
> mass of people, and the availability of such inflammatory, hate-filled materials
> that can be exploited to the benefit of ignorant, violent fools.

Then educate beyond the pavlovian. Encourage social change

-----------------------------------------------------------

To remove
> illegal and pointlessly bilious material such as this game and any other facist
> documentation is to limit and restrict the availability, and potential harm that
> such things can cause.

Then how will we learn how to deal with facism?
Even if we burn the books the ideas will live on.
-----------------------------------------------------------

It makes sense to prevent the release of items that
> serve no purpose other than the fan the flames of an already evil and immoral
> situation such as facism.

We need to understand the cause.
-----------------------------------------------------------

To merely ignore and hope it doesnt amount to
> anything,to hope it will just "go away if you dont say anything" is
> dangerous and gives remit to a flood of similar themed ideas such as race-hate,
> ethnic supremacy and the other traits of Nazism.

This is what Ive been saying.
----------------------------------------------------------

I ask again, offer your own
> solutions as to how to combat facism, apart from removal of the literature which
> results in only more deaths and hate.

I dont have any answers. Thats why I'm discussing, to find some kind of truth within the mess.

But I do know that hiding it from public view wont solve the problem, it will just move it elsewhere, underground.

Armatige Shanks wrote:
I'm not suggesting that facism should be allowed to
> fester, but that facism should be delt with calmly, with thought and
> deliberation. That angrily responding to a problem wont solve it.

---

Dealing with it calmly.
How? Offer some solutions yourself instead of shooting down beliefs and rational suggestions made by others.


There is no quick fox to this solution. To deal with facism we need
> to deal with the cause not the outcome.

And the cause of facism is ignorance and the continued allowance of offensive and inexcusable mindsets that nobody can justify in any manner whatsoever.
The cause of it is resentment by a mass of people, and the availability of such inflammatory, hate-filled materials that can be exploited to the benefit of ignorant, violent fools.
To remove illegal and pointlessly bilious material such as this game and any other facist documentation is to limit and restrict the availability, and potential harm that such things can cause.

It makes sense to prevent the release of items that serve no purpose other than the fan the flames of an already evil and immoral situation such as facism.

To merely ignore and hope it doesnt amount to anything,to hope it will just "go away if you dont say anything" is dangerous and gives remit to a flood of similar themed ideas such as race-hate, ethnic supremacy and the other traits of Nazism.

I ask again, offer your own solutions as to how to combat facism, apart from removal of the literature which results in only more deaths and hate.

unknown kernel wrote:
> The reason I started this topic was to stress that everyone has responsibilities
> with this sort of material: we don't have to buy but equally SR don't have to
> sell it.

Its not the reason, but the ryme, the created thread, that I consider questionable.

>Everyone's actions take place in a political environment >and I would

And the baloon keeps rising

Fascism and racism won't be beaten by ignoring them.
> You need to expose these lies for what they are. That means ridiculing them,
> attacking them, countering them with the truth.

No it doesnt, fighting hate with hate never works

It doesn't mean sitting back
> and calling everything personal choice. We create the environment that deems
> fascism acceptable or unacceptable, so silence is the ally of racists.

By that cause our society deems violence acceptable?

Maybe
> you think we're overreacting but I suggest you go and read the poem Goatboy
> quoted in an earlier post: fascism starts small and gets bigger.

Yes, I think your right, I think maybe I do...

I'm not suggesting that facism should be allowed to fester, but that facism should be delt with calmly, with thought and deliberation. That angrily responding to a problem wont solve it.

And I'm further suggesting that despite the anger shown here, how many people who are so velhement anti-Hooligans will do anything further than agree with the proposal.

There is no quick fox to this solution. To deal with facism we need to deal with the cause not the outcome.

Belldandy wrote:
Go on, you seem to be all for freedom of expression and
> speech, so pu down why this game shouldn't be banned, we're all quite happy to
> put here why the game is wrong.

>I bet you won't.

This is what Ive been trying to do since the start, though it would seem my inarticualtion has held against me.

You seem to be a little confused, I'm not pro-hooligans, just anti-reactionary behaviour.

I'm not disagreeing with Goatboys post, this is obviously something he feels very passionatly about, and to consider his opinion invade would destroy my argument.

I'm taking the most unpopular opinion of being against the people.

Yes it p###es me off immensley, but not in a personal way against posters here, more than people can be so stupid.

I would like to see you create a post where you defend the decision to release/stock/buy this game though,so I can see where you're coming from.

I didnt say that to be pouty or annoyed, I'm genuinely interested to try and understand your views

Goatboy wrote:
> This is really getting me angry.

I certainly wasnt my intention to create any anger, and I feel sure than Wookie et al. are of the same opinion.

From reading the posts, I suspect that while we all seek the same ends, it is our means for reaching them that differs.

I value very much these differences. It allows me to examine my own point of view, and experience those of others. Equally I also value the role of the devils advocate, since I often find that some of the truth lies in the opposing opinion.

That this medium provides an opening for such communication, allowing us to enjoy our difference as much as our similarities is important

I consider myself fortunate to be able to discuss as such, since it will provide much food for thought.

I see it says on the games site that HMV and Virgin are also seling it. I never buy from them anyway because they were rubbish before selling this, now they just went down evern further in my eyes.

The reason I started this topic was to stress that everyone has responsibilities with this sort of material: we don't have to buy but equally SR don't have to sell it. Everyone's actions take place in a political environment and I would hope that selling such an offensive game would meet with general disapproval. So, in the same way that I would have protested at IBM selling technology to the Nazis for the holocaust, I am registering my distaste at someone selling this product for profit.

Fascism and racism won't be beaten by ignoring them. You need to expose these lies for what they are. That means ridiculing them, attacking them, countering them with the truth. It doesn't mean sitting back and calling everything personal choice. We create the environment that deems fascism acceptable or unacceptable, so silence is the ally of racists. Maybe you think we're overreacting but I suggest you go and read the poem Goatboy quoted in an earlier post: fascism starts small and gets bigger.

Goatboy wrote:
> I agree.
In a calm, polite manner reasonably asking a company if they perhaps
> would not sell a game that deals with race hate.
Not demanding, just asking
> nicely.

---

This is my version of a valid action.
Not demanding, not screaming for justice.
Just quietly asking that SR consider the moral stance of this game and whether it is wise to allow this sort of thing to be purchased from a family website.

Armitage, I say again, post a topic to defend this game.

This topic asked people to vote for and against the game, it did not say "lets ban it", it asked people to decide and hopefully say why.

Goatboy has superbly covered in his intial post why this game, in his opinion, should be banned and amed common knowledge so that more will oppose it.

So, post a new topic and defend Hooligan, the games objectives, messages and themes. Everyone against this game has outlined in detail why they are so against it, so start your own topic and see how many people are willing to put there user name to such a topic supporting this game.

Go on, you seem to be all for freedom of expression and speech, so pu down why this game shouldn't be banned, we're all quite happy to put here why the game is wrong.

I bet you won't.