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Finding out about a game that has been released in a couple of European Countries has brought me out from my enforced hiatus to post my feelings about this:
Usually I’m the first person to defend “freedom of choice” and will stand up for a game/movie like GTA3/State of Emergency by saying “It’s a game, it allows you to do things for fun with no consequence”.
Except I’ve become aware of a game that has me genuinely concerned as to who would play it and why.
“Hooligans – Storm Over Europe”. A PC game about football hooligans.
Now it’s not cartoony, it’s very realistic and real-world like in appearance. The aim of the game? According to the website:
The object is to become the most notorious group of Hooligans in Europe. You must kill, maim and destroy the opposing Hooligan teams. You muster and control your faithful troops by administering drugs, alcohol and of course a good dose of violence every now and then. They must become true followers of your faction, for better or worse.
Not only good strategic skills are required but also a good political mindset and managing capabilities to keep your troops happy and violent.
Whoever is victorious and catches the publics attention in the media, will end up the most notorious Hooligans in Europe and the world! A title that every Hooligan with his heart in the right place loves to fight for!
You get bonus points for “attacking civilians to increase your wanted rating and bonuses for targeting minority groups”.
If you go to the website, you are greeted with a nice black and red image of a skinhead glaring out at you.
The forums are filled with racial hatred and “Firms” organising meetings and the most viscious racial abuse directed at other countries.
Some of the avatars you can choose are swastikas and other nazi symbols.
Game Ltd have refused to carry this game, and HMV and Virgin are coming under serious complaint from watchdog groups for stocking it.
It’s also not being released in Germany or America and Trading Standards are investigating the game to see if it contravenes the “Incitement to Racial Hatred” act passed since Sept 11th.
In Germany, it is illegal to have games displaying any symbolism of fascist iconography, and it is also illegal to use Nazi ideology as a basis for entertainment – rightly so but the UK has no such restrictions, we rely on public decency and morals.
Now I know this is just a game and all that, but what makes me unhappy is the reasoning behind the game. It’s one thing to play an undercover/ex cop trying to bring down a crime syndicate (GTA3), but it’s another thing entirely when the idea of a game is to commit racial murder and acts of hooliganism for the sole purpose of “Being the number 1 firm in Europe”.
And if I had any doubt about the intention or morality behind this game, then a visit to the forums for this game (I wont give out the URL as I object to Nazi propaganda) will indicate just where the game developer’s feelings lay. Several moderators have joined in the boasts about “the good old days” and making continued racial slurs and abuse towards people.
A game is a game, I understand that. And I’m not suggesting that by playing this game you will instantly become a nazi thug.
But seeing as we are in the 21st century, and especially since Sept 11th, I find it abhorrent that somebody still thinks it’s a good idea to bring out a game that rewards murder and racial hatred as if it were a noble thing.
If there was a game to be released called “Auschwitz Death Camp 2002: The Revenge” then there would be international outcry and, hopefully, condemnation from the world. But having investigated this game as best I can and as best as I can tolerate, I can see no difference between this game and tattooing a swastika on your head and “bashing p***s” as one poster proudly boasted.
The main game that caused contention last time was “GTA3”, but that had a strict moral guideline in it.
You could attack pedestrians if you wanted to, but you were working to bring down a criminal organisation. The wholesale slaughter was just there if you felt inclined to do so, and you would be arrested or shot after a few moments mayhem. You were working towards a goal that was pro-legal, you fought gangs etc to bring order and calm to Liberty City.
However, Hooligans exists solely to murder and cause violence for the sake of it.
You could say the same about State of Emergency, but they use the “Globol Corps” plot and you get penalised for attacking civilians, and if you look, all of your opponents are faceless white-people, there is no mission that involves attacking minority groups.
I’m not going to demand that Hooligans be banned, or that stores shouldn’t stock this game, I stand by personal choice and, unfortunately, that extends to allowing right-wing Nazis their say as well.
But I am extremely offended and unhappy about the notion that a game exists that promotes and actively encourages murderous, racist, thuggish behaviour for the sake of it.
The reward in commanding loyalty and devotions amongst your skinhead followers suggests that the feelings and emotions of the games developers involved in this game are not being ironic or making a comment about society.
This is bigoted, Nazi behaviour under the banner of “entertainment” and that is what I object to, not the game, but the ideology behind it.
Usually I’m the first person to defend “freedom of choice” and will stand up for a game/movie like GTA3/State of Emergency by saying “It’s a game, it allows you to do things for fun with no consequence”.
Except I’ve become aware of a game that has me genuinely concerned as to who would play it and why.
“Hooligans – Storm Over Europe”. A PC game about football hooligans.
Now it’s not cartoony, it’s very realistic and real-world like in appearance. The aim of the game? According to the website:
The object is to become the most notorious group of Hooligans in Europe. You must kill, maim and destroy the opposing Hooligan teams. You muster and control your faithful troops by administering drugs, alcohol and of course a good dose of violence every now and then. They must become true followers of your faction, for better or worse.
Not only good strategic skills are required but also a good political mindset and managing capabilities to keep your troops happy and violent.
Whoever is victorious and catches the publics attention in the media, will end up the most notorious Hooligans in Europe and the world! A title that every Hooligan with his heart in the right place loves to fight for!
You get bonus points for “attacking civilians to increase your wanted rating and bonuses for targeting minority groups”.
If you go to the website, you are greeted with a nice black and red image of a skinhead glaring out at you.
The forums are filled with racial hatred and “Firms” organising meetings and the most viscious racial abuse directed at other countries.
Some of the avatars you can choose are swastikas and other nazi symbols.
Game Ltd have refused to carry this game, and HMV and Virgin are coming under serious complaint from watchdog groups for stocking it.
It’s also not being released in Germany or America and Trading Standards are investigating the game to see if it contravenes the “Incitement to Racial Hatred” act passed since Sept 11th.
In Germany, it is illegal to have games displaying any symbolism of fascist iconography, and it is also illegal to use Nazi ideology as a basis for entertainment – rightly so but the UK has no such restrictions, we rely on public decency and morals.
Now I know this is just a game and all that, but what makes me unhappy is the reasoning behind the game. It’s one thing to play an undercover/ex cop trying to bring down a crime syndicate (GTA3), but it’s another thing entirely when the idea of a game is to commit racial murder and acts of hooliganism for the sole purpose of “Being the number 1 firm in Europe”.
And if I had any doubt about the intention or morality behind this game, then a visit to the forums for this game (I wont give out the URL as I object to Nazi propaganda) will indicate just where the game developer’s feelings lay. Several moderators have joined in the boasts about “the good old days” and making continued racial slurs and abuse towards people.
A game is a game, I understand that. And I’m not suggesting that by playing this game you will instantly become a nazi thug.
But seeing as we are in the 21st century, and especially since Sept 11th, I find it abhorrent that somebody still thinks it’s a good idea to bring out a game that rewards murder and racial hatred as if it were a noble thing.
If there was a game to be released called “Auschwitz Death Camp 2002: The Revenge” then there would be international outcry and, hopefully, condemnation from the world. But having investigated this game as best I can and as best as I can tolerate, I can see no difference between this game and tattooing a swastika on your head and “bashing p***s” as one poster proudly boasted.
The main game that caused contention last time was “GTA3”, but that had a strict moral guideline in it.
You could attack pedestrians if you wanted to, but you were working to bring down a criminal organisation. The wholesale slaughter was just there if you felt inclined to do so, and you would be arrested or shot after a few moments mayhem. You were working towards a goal that was pro-legal, you fought gangs etc to bring order and calm to Liberty City.
However, Hooligans exists solely to murder and cause violence for the sake of it.
You could say the same about State of Emergency, but they use the “Globol Corps” plot and you get penalised for attacking civilians, and if you look, all of your opponents are faceless white-people, there is no mission that involves attacking minority groups.
I’m not going to demand that Hooligans be banned, or that stores shouldn’t stock this game, I stand by personal choice and, unfortunately, that extends to allowing right-wing Nazis their say as well.
But I am extremely offended and unhappy about the notion that a game exists that promotes and actively encourages murderous, racist, thuggish behaviour for the sake of it.
The reward in commanding loyalty and devotions amongst your skinhead followers suggests that the feelings and emotions of the games developers involved in this game are not being ironic or making a comment about society.
This is bigoted, Nazi behaviour under the banner of “entertainment” and that is what I object to, not the game, but the ideology behind it.
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Goatboy wrote:
> I posted another straight after explaining I didnt realise the rating system was
> in place.
But that has been deleted.
Yea, i know by having seen your strong opinions on the game i knew that you wouldn't intentionally give it top marks.
> I posted another straight after explaining I didnt realise the rating system was
> in place.
But that has been deleted.
Yea, i know by having seen your strong opinions on the game i knew that you wouldn't intentionally give it top marks.
This game is currently number 10 in Special Reserves PC sales chart, by the way, so rather a lot of people seem to be buying it.
I posted another straight after explaining I didnt realise the rating system was in place.
But that has been deleted.
But that has been deleted.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Goatboy review Hooligans and give it 10/10. LOL
Armatige Shanks wrote:
> unknown kernel wrote:
> Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone, and, because it
> goes on behind closed doors,
> it is none of our damn business.
Are you
> saying that Homosexuality is fine as long as its behind closed doors?
Read the post I was responding to.
I was saying that ANYTHING that doesn't harm another human being and that you choose to do is none of our business. WookieMan said that he disapproved of homosexuality 'behind closed doors' and found gay videos in Virgin offensive, equating it with me finding Hooligans offensive. I was just using his phrase.
> unknown kernel wrote:
> Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone, and, because it
> goes on behind closed doors,
> it is none of our damn business.
Are you
> saying that Homosexuality is fine as long as its behind closed doors?
Read the post I was responding to.
I was saying that ANYTHING that doesn't harm another human being and that you choose to do is none of our business. WookieMan said that he disapproved of homosexuality 'behind closed doors' and found gay videos in Virgin offensive, equating it with me finding Hooligans offensive. I was just using his phrase.
To support the idea that some people are lesser and should even die because of simply who they are is wrong. It is reactionary simply out of experience. Anything support this ideaolgy is also simply wrong.
It doesn't require any further 'consideration'.
It doesn't require any further 'consideration'.
Armatige Shanks wrote:
And if I want to read Primo
> Levi I can go to Russia and get it off some commie red???
About 13 years too late there Armitage, you did know the Berlin Wall has gone didnt you ?
>I suspect Facism is an ideology that cannot be resolved by
> hiding it away, or by using anger, fear or destruction.
I susepct that it can quite easily be resolved by destroying it.
If this game is
> deemed to be unacceptable, as I would expect a game around say child abuse would
> be, then let it be done, its not a subject I find suits my palette. But let the
> consideration be made rationally, and with consideration. To have it removed as
> a reactionary responce is wrong.
The game invloves killing and murdering other racial groups and people for no valid reason. If you're immeditate reaction isn't to want it banned then what does that say ? Theres a time and a place for freedom of speech and expression, but this game isn't it !
And if I want to read Primo
> Levi I can go to Russia and get it off some commie red???
About 13 years too late there Armitage, you did know the Berlin Wall has gone didnt you ?
>I suspect Facism is an ideology that cannot be resolved by
> hiding it away, or by using anger, fear or destruction.
I susepct that it can quite easily be resolved by destroying it.
If this game is
> deemed to be unacceptable, as I would expect a game around say child abuse would
> be, then let it be done, its not a subject I find suits my palette. But let the
> consideration be made rationally, and with consideration. To have it removed as
> a reactionary responce is wrong.
The game invloves killing and murdering other racial groups and people for no valid reason. If you're immeditate reaction isn't to want it banned then what does that say ? Theres a time and a place for freedom of speech and expression, but this game isn't it !
Armatige Shanks wrote:
Are you
> saying that Homosexuality is fine as long as its behind closed doors?
No, that's what Wookie said.
And if I want to read Primo
> Levi I can go to Russia and get it off some commie red???
No you ignorant person. If you want to read Primo Levi,you go to a bookshop to the "History" section. It's under "Holocaust Writings". A history of what facism can do when allowed to propagate.
Maybe you would
> like to black list me if I bought this game?
Wear a little badge to saying than
> I'm a facist?
Yes I would. I would like every person to buy this game to be marked out in the street, so that everyone is aware of their decision to partake of facist material. To have the courage to display their ignorant hate instead of quietly and cowardly hating people.
That way, I can see you and take you down.
Combatting facism is an absolute good.
let the
> consideration be made rationally, and with consideration. To have it removed as
> a reactionary responce is wrong.
It is not a reactionary response.
A reactionary response would be to attack the developers HQ.
A rational response is to ask that race-hate games be treated as they should be:
With contempt.
Why are we one of the only European countries that hasn't banned this thing? Are they being reactionary?
Is Germany being reactionary in banning any reference to the Nazi party?
Or has Germany learned a horrific lesson in what facism leads to when allowed?
Is it reactionary to fight against an idealism that advocates the murder and persecution of another person because their ideals differ?
Are you
> saying that Homosexuality is fine as long as its behind closed doors?
No, that's what Wookie said.
And if I want to read Primo
> Levi I can go to Russia and get it off some commie red???
No you ignorant person. If you want to read Primo Levi,you go to a bookshop to the "History" section. It's under "Holocaust Writings". A history of what facism can do when allowed to propagate.
Maybe you would
> like to black list me if I bought this game?
Wear a little badge to saying than
> I'm a facist?
Yes I would. I would like every person to buy this game to be marked out in the street, so that everyone is aware of their decision to partake of facist material. To have the courage to display their ignorant hate instead of quietly and cowardly hating people.
That way, I can see you and take you down.
Combatting facism is an absolute good.
let the
> consideration be made rationally, and with consideration. To have it removed as
> a reactionary responce is wrong.
It is not a reactionary response.
A reactionary response would be to attack the developers HQ.
A rational response is to ask that race-hate games be treated as they should be:
With contempt.
Why are we one of the only European countries that hasn't banned this thing? Are they being reactionary?
Is Germany being reactionary in banning any reference to the Nazi party?
Or has Germany learned a horrific lesson in what facism leads to when allowed?
Is it reactionary to fight against an idealism that advocates the murder and persecution of another person because their ideals differ?
unknown kernel wrote:
> Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone, and, because it goes on behind closed doors,
> it is none of our damn business.
Are you saying that Homosexuality is fine as long as its behind closed doors?
> My position is this: we do everything we can to stop it.
One of the more dangerous sentiments about
unknown kernel wrote:
And to people who say they're old enough to make up their own minds, fine.
> You can buy it if you want. But not on the high-street. You can buy it off a
> skinhead standing in the gutter where this filth belongs.
And if I want to read Primo Levi I can go to Russia and get it off some commie red???
Maybe you would like to black list me if I bought this game?
Wear a little badge to saying than I'm a facist?
I suspect Facism is an ideology that cannot be resolved by hiding it away, or by using anger, fear or destruction.
If this game is deemed to be unacceptable, as I would expect a game around say child abuse would be, then let it be done, its not a subject I find suits my palette. But let the consideration be made rationally, and with consideration. To have it removed as a reactionary responce is wrong.
> Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone, and, because it goes on behind closed doors,
> it is none of our damn business.
Are you saying that Homosexuality is fine as long as its behind closed doors?
> My position is this: we do everything we can to stop it.
One of the more dangerous sentiments about
unknown kernel wrote:
And to people who say they're old enough to make up their own minds, fine.
> You can buy it if you want. But not on the high-street. You can buy it off a
> skinhead standing in the gutter where this filth belongs.
And if I want to read Primo Levi I can go to Russia and get it off some commie red???
Maybe you would like to black list me if I bought this game?
Wear a little badge to saying than I'm a facist?
I suspect Facism is an ideology that cannot be resolved by hiding it away, or by using anger, fear or destruction.
If this game is deemed to be unacceptable, as I would expect a game around say child abuse would be, then let it be done, its not a subject I find suits my palette. But let the consideration be made rationally, and with consideration. To have it removed as a reactionary responce is wrong.
Totoro wrote:
> When it doesn't sell well (as we all know it wont shift many copies because it's
> probably naff) then maybe the developers will see the errors of their ways and
> decide to make more games in better teaste??
I haven't actually seen much about
> it on tv or newspapers yet, I wonder what sort of uproar there'll be then.
Thats the point. The developers seem to be pro nazi fascists who genuinely believe this crap.
Read about the website in Goaty's original posts
> When it doesn't sell well (as we all know it wont shift many copies because it's
> probably naff) then maybe the developers will see the errors of their ways and
> decide to make more games in better teaste??
I haven't actually seen much about
> it on tv or newspapers yet, I wonder what sort of uproar there'll be then.
Thats the point. The developers seem to be pro nazi fascists who genuinely believe this crap.
Read about the website in Goaty's original posts
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