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Finding out about a game that has been released in a couple of European Countries has brought me out from my enforced hiatus to post my feelings about this:
Usually I’m the first person to defend “freedom of choice” and will stand up for a game/movie like GTA3/State of Emergency by saying “It’s a game, it allows you to do things for fun with no consequence”.
Except I’ve become aware of a game that has me genuinely concerned as to who would play it and why.
“Hooligans – Storm Over Europe”. A PC game about football hooligans.
Now it’s not cartoony, it’s very realistic and real-world like in appearance. The aim of the game? According to the website:
The object is to become the most notorious group of Hooligans in Europe. You must kill, maim and destroy the opposing Hooligan teams. You muster and control your faithful troops by administering drugs, alcohol and of course a good dose of violence every now and then. They must become true followers of your faction, for better or worse.
Not only good strategic skills are required but also a good political mindset and managing capabilities to keep your troops happy and violent.
Whoever is victorious and catches the publics attention in the media, will end up the most notorious Hooligans in Europe and the world! A title that every Hooligan with his heart in the right place loves to fight for!
You get bonus points for “attacking civilians to increase your wanted rating and bonuses for targeting minority groups”.
If you go to the website, you are greeted with a nice black and red image of a skinhead glaring out at you.
The forums are filled with racial hatred and “Firms” organising meetings and the most viscious racial abuse directed at other countries.
Some of the avatars you can choose are swastikas and other nazi symbols.
Game Ltd have refused to carry this game, and HMV and Virgin are coming under serious complaint from watchdog groups for stocking it.
It’s also not being released in Germany or America and Trading Standards are investigating the game to see if it contravenes the “Incitement to Racial Hatred” act passed since Sept 11th.
In Germany, it is illegal to have games displaying any symbolism of fascist iconography, and it is also illegal to use Nazi ideology as a basis for entertainment – rightly so but the UK has no such restrictions, we rely on public decency and morals.
Now I know this is just a game and all that, but what makes me unhappy is the reasoning behind the game. It’s one thing to play an undercover/ex cop trying to bring down a crime syndicate (GTA3), but it’s another thing entirely when the idea of a game is to commit racial murder and acts of hooliganism for the sole purpose of “Being the number 1 firm in Europe”.
And if I had any doubt about the intention or morality behind this game, then a visit to the forums for this game (I wont give out the URL as I object to Nazi propaganda) will indicate just where the game developer’s feelings lay. Several moderators have joined in the boasts about “the good old days” and making continued racial slurs and abuse towards people.
A game is a game, I understand that. And I’m not suggesting that by playing this game you will instantly become a nazi thug.
But seeing as we are in the 21st century, and especially since Sept 11th, I find it abhorrent that somebody still thinks it’s a good idea to bring out a game that rewards murder and racial hatred as if it were a noble thing.
If there was a game to be released called “Auschwitz Death Camp 2002: The Revenge” then there would be international outcry and, hopefully, condemnation from the world. But having investigated this game as best I can and as best as I can tolerate, I can see no difference between this game and tattooing a swastika on your head and “bashing p***s” as one poster proudly boasted.
The main game that caused contention last time was “GTA3”, but that had a strict moral guideline in it.
You could attack pedestrians if you wanted to, but you were working to bring down a criminal organisation. The wholesale slaughter was just there if you felt inclined to do so, and you would be arrested or shot after a few moments mayhem. You were working towards a goal that was pro-legal, you fought gangs etc to bring order and calm to Liberty City.
However, Hooligans exists solely to murder and cause violence for the sake of it.
You could say the same about State of Emergency, but they use the “Globol Corps” plot and you get penalised for attacking civilians, and if you look, all of your opponents are faceless white-people, there is no mission that involves attacking minority groups.
I’m not going to demand that Hooligans be banned, or that stores shouldn’t stock this game, I stand by personal choice and, unfortunately, that extends to allowing right-wing Nazis their say as well.
But I am extremely offended and unhappy about the notion that a game exists that promotes and actively encourages murderous, racist, thuggish behaviour for the sake of it.
The reward in commanding loyalty and devotions amongst your skinhead followers suggests that the feelings and emotions of the games developers involved in this game are not being ironic or making a comment about society.
This is bigoted, Nazi behaviour under the banner of “entertainment” and that is what I object to, not the game, but the ideology behind it.
Usually I’m the first person to defend “freedom of choice” and will stand up for a game/movie like GTA3/State of Emergency by saying “It’s a game, it allows you to do things for fun with no consequence”.
Except I’ve become aware of a game that has me genuinely concerned as to who would play it and why.
“Hooligans – Storm Over Europe”. A PC game about football hooligans.
Now it’s not cartoony, it’s very realistic and real-world like in appearance. The aim of the game? According to the website:
The object is to become the most notorious group of Hooligans in Europe. You must kill, maim and destroy the opposing Hooligan teams. You muster and control your faithful troops by administering drugs, alcohol and of course a good dose of violence every now and then. They must become true followers of your faction, for better or worse.
Not only good strategic skills are required but also a good political mindset and managing capabilities to keep your troops happy and violent.
Whoever is victorious and catches the publics attention in the media, will end up the most notorious Hooligans in Europe and the world! A title that every Hooligan with his heart in the right place loves to fight for!
You get bonus points for “attacking civilians to increase your wanted rating and bonuses for targeting minority groups”.
If you go to the website, you are greeted with a nice black and red image of a skinhead glaring out at you.
The forums are filled with racial hatred and “Firms” organising meetings and the most viscious racial abuse directed at other countries.
Some of the avatars you can choose are swastikas and other nazi symbols.
Game Ltd have refused to carry this game, and HMV and Virgin are coming under serious complaint from watchdog groups for stocking it.
It’s also not being released in Germany or America and Trading Standards are investigating the game to see if it contravenes the “Incitement to Racial Hatred” act passed since Sept 11th.
In Germany, it is illegal to have games displaying any symbolism of fascist iconography, and it is also illegal to use Nazi ideology as a basis for entertainment – rightly so but the UK has no such restrictions, we rely on public decency and morals.
Now I know this is just a game and all that, but what makes me unhappy is the reasoning behind the game. It’s one thing to play an undercover/ex cop trying to bring down a crime syndicate (GTA3), but it’s another thing entirely when the idea of a game is to commit racial murder and acts of hooliganism for the sole purpose of “Being the number 1 firm in Europe”.
And if I had any doubt about the intention or morality behind this game, then a visit to the forums for this game (I wont give out the URL as I object to Nazi propaganda) will indicate just where the game developer’s feelings lay. Several moderators have joined in the boasts about “the good old days” and making continued racial slurs and abuse towards people.
A game is a game, I understand that. And I’m not suggesting that by playing this game you will instantly become a nazi thug.
But seeing as we are in the 21st century, and especially since Sept 11th, I find it abhorrent that somebody still thinks it’s a good idea to bring out a game that rewards murder and racial hatred as if it were a noble thing.
If there was a game to be released called “Auschwitz Death Camp 2002: The Revenge” then there would be international outcry and, hopefully, condemnation from the world. But having investigated this game as best I can and as best as I can tolerate, I can see no difference between this game and tattooing a swastika on your head and “bashing p***s” as one poster proudly boasted.
The main game that caused contention last time was “GTA3”, but that had a strict moral guideline in it.
You could attack pedestrians if you wanted to, but you were working to bring down a criminal organisation. The wholesale slaughter was just there if you felt inclined to do so, and you would be arrested or shot after a few moments mayhem. You were working towards a goal that was pro-legal, you fought gangs etc to bring order and calm to Liberty City.
However, Hooligans exists solely to murder and cause violence for the sake of it.
You could say the same about State of Emergency, but they use the “Globol Corps” plot and you get penalised for attacking civilians, and if you look, all of your opponents are faceless white-people, there is no mission that involves attacking minority groups.
I’m not going to demand that Hooligans be banned, or that stores shouldn’t stock this game, I stand by personal choice and, unfortunately, that extends to allowing right-wing Nazis their say as well.
But I am extremely offended and unhappy about the notion that a game exists that promotes and actively encourages murderous, racist, thuggish behaviour for the sake of it.
The reward in commanding loyalty and devotions amongst your skinhead followers suggests that the feelings and emotions of the games developers involved in this game are not being ironic or making a comment about society.
This is bigoted, Nazi behaviour under the banner of “entertainment” and that is what I object to, not the game, but the ideology behind it.
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Meka Dragon wrote:
No, I think
> you can tell quite a bit about a person by the games they play, books they read,
> and the movies they watch.
--
Yeah, I totally agree. Books especially.
On the topic of the thread, I think ti's wrong, but I have just given up with the people of the UK having any sort of moral conscience whatsoever. Let them enjoy ethnic groups. Sooner or later the ethnic groups are going to get their revenge, and would that be wrong?
Stupid. All of them. I should be trying to change it, but I can't. I need inspiration and not cynicism in my life.
Another point - You have idiots among the newbies, regulars and notables. Yes, even among the notables. You know who I mean. What you don't need to do is assume that just because someone tells you to shut up it's because they are persecuting you on behalf of the colour of the name. I've got a "reputation" as a newbie-basher, apparently, and thats bollix, because I shout at idiots, not newbies. I got annoyed when notables tell me to stop being out of order to Sniper, because I think he's an idiot as much as your run-0f-the-mill newbie.
Sorry about that, off topic, but the point had been raised.
No, I think
> you can tell quite a bit about a person by the games they play, books they read,
> and the movies they watch.
--
Yeah, I totally agree. Books especially.
On the topic of the thread, I think ti's wrong, but I have just given up with the people of the UK having any sort of moral conscience whatsoever. Let them enjoy ethnic groups. Sooner or later the ethnic groups are going to get their revenge, and would that be wrong?
Stupid. All of them. I should be trying to change it, but I can't. I need inspiration and not cynicism in my life.
Another point - You have idiots among the newbies, regulars and notables. Yes, even among the notables. You know who I mean. What you don't need to do is assume that just because someone tells you to shut up it's because they are persecuting you on behalf of the colour of the name. I've got a "reputation" as a newbie-basher, apparently, and thats bollix, because I shout at idiots, not newbies. I got annoyed when notables tell me to stop being out of order to Sniper, because I think he's an idiot as much as your run-0f-the-mill newbie.
Sorry about that, off topic, but the point had been raised.
True. and while we're on the subject the ammericans are just as fachist as the nazis with communist/captilist thing. yeah lets go and bomb vietnam and other poor countries that would make us look hard.
Sorry, that was for Belldandy.
I bow down to your superior American history knowledge (no sarcasm intended).
It was more to amplify the point that where peoples beliefs/races/nationalities differ, there will always be conflict.
It was more to amplify the point that where peoples beliefs/races/nationalities differ, there will always be conflict.
Maybe. but if i play mario it doesn't mean i'm a plumber so if i play this game about nazi's doesn't mean i'm a nazi.
Jimmy Duck wrote:
Th thing is it's
> only a games and if you want to judge people by what game they play, then you're
> an idiot.
No, I think you can tell quite a bit about a person by the games they play, books they read, and the movies they watch.
Th thing is it's
> only a games and if you want to judge people by what game they play, then you're
> an idiot.
No, I think you can tell quite a bit about a person by the games they play, books they read, and the movies they watch.
Belldandy wrote:
> Jimmy Duck wrote:
> I hate this sort of subject, just say one thing wrong
> and you're a Nazi, racist,
> bigot etc.
The thing is people don't mind
> shooting Nazis but when it come to
> being bnazi in games they can't
> understand why. I my self use the console games
> purely for escapism and
> i'm sure many others do, so if some people want to
> pretend to be nazis
> then let them. It doesn't effect you does it?
What does it say about you if
> you want to control a nazi ? Escapism ? I can thik of better things to escape
> to. In games like Medal Of Honour Allied Assault you kill nazis because - and
> heres the big shock - its a WAR. In MOHAA there is a moral and strategic reason
> to kill the enemy, the game goatboy is describing has none of these. If this
> game comes out, then others will follow, and more people will start to believe
> in such groups, and there will be more websites...and so on. Germany rightly
> bans such material.
Hooliganism and current day nazism is just an excuse for
> violence and racial hatred. These groups like the BNP hide under the banner of
> "freedom of speech" but would be the first to take those rights from
> others if given the chance. Rather than trying to give people the chance to play
> such games, developers, and other groups, should help to erase all memory of an
> ideology that nearly destroyed the free world.
Craws comments about the USA,
> UK and Afghanistan are stupid, and he should know they are. Comparing that to
> the Germans and the Jews is so stupid its unbelievable, unless Craw happens to
> have video footage of such actions, in which case he is the only one with that
> footage and can bring down two governments in one day. I think not, its the
> usual anti-war, no facts, rubbish.
This game needs banning, quickly.
This game is about being a nazi all games give of some sort of proganda in their title/idea. However small it may be. Some people won't wan to play this games because there feels it doing the wrong thing. Th thing is it's only a games and if you want to judge people by what game they play, then you're an idiot.
> Jimmy Duck wrote:
> I hate this sort of subject, just say one thing wrong
> and you're a Nazi, racist,
> bigot etc.
The thing is people don't mind
> shooting Nazis but when it come to
> being bnazi in games they can't
> understand why. I my self use the console games
> purely for escapism and
> i'm sure many others do, so if some people want to
> pretend to be nazis
> then let them. It doesn't effect you does it?
What does it say about you if
> you want to control a nazi ? Escapism ? I can thik of better things to escape
> to. In games like Medal Of Honour Allied Assault you kill nazis because - and
> heres the big shock - its a WAR. In MOHAA there is a moral and strategic reason
> to kill the enemy, the game goatboy is describing has none of these. If this
> game comes out, then others will follow, and more people will start to believe
> in such groups, and there will be more websites...and so on. Germany rightly
> bans such material.
Hooliganism and current day nazism is just an excuse for
> violence and racial hatred. These groups like the BNP hide under the banner of
> "freedom of speech" but would be the first to take those rights from
> others if given the chance. Rather than trying to give people the chance to play
> such games, developers, and other groups, should help to erase all memory of an
> ideology that nearly destroyed the free world.
Craws comments about the USA,
> UK and Afghanistan are stupid, and he should know they are. Comparing that to
> the Germans and the Jews is so stupid its unbelievable, unless Craw happens to
> have video footage of such actions, in which case he is the only one with that
> footage and can bring down two governments in one day. I think not, its the
> usual anti-war, no facts, rubbish.
This game needs banning, quickly.
This game is about being a nazi all games give of some sort of proganda in their title/idea. However small it may be. Some people won't wan to play this games because there feels it doing the wrong thing. Th thing is it's only a games and if you want to judge people by what game they play, then you're an idiot.
First off, aplogies for to craw for misunderstnading what he meant. However,
>Craw wrote:
> Sorry but they practically wiped out the Native Americans.
The Americans basically only wiped out the native americans the British, Spanish and French had left behind after establishing the colonies. Those "lucky" enough not to be killed, by our weapons, starvation or diseases we so kindly introduced, ended up enslaved in our plantations in southern America and slaves in the colonies themselves. The Americans did nearly wipe out the rst of the natives, but they learnt it from the British..... and the British were responsible, along with Belgium, France, Spain, for about 6 million African deaths from slavery. Luckily for us, and the other countries involved, World War One broke out just as the facts were coming out and it was all forgotten. For more about this see the book by Adam Hochschild "King Leopold's Ghost".
>Craw wrote:
> Sorry but they practically wiped out the Native Americans.
The Americans basically only wiped out the native americans the British, Spanish and French had left behind after establishing the colonies. Those "lucky" enough not to be killed, by our weapons, starvation or diseases we so kindly introduced, ended up enslaved in our plantations in southern America and slaves in the colonies themselves. The Americans did nearly wipe out the rst of the natives, but they learnt it from the British..... and the British were responsible, along with Belgium, France, Spain, for about 6 million African deaths from slavery. Luckily for us, and the other countries involved, World War One broke out just as the facts were coming out and it was all forgotten. For more about this see the book by Adam Hochschild "King Leopold's Ghost".
As sick as it may sound...Englands Hooligans during the major tournaments is always a highlight for me...Although they will be locked up for up to 5 years if they try it in Japan...
No worries.
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