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Finding out about a game that has been released in a couple of European Countries has brought me out from my enforced hiatus to post my feelings about this:
Usually I’m the first person to defend “freedom of choice” and will stand up for a game/movie like GTA3/State of Emergency by saying “It’s a game, it allows you to do things for fun with no consequence”.
Except I’ve become aware of a game that has me genuinely concerned as to who would play it and why.
“Hooligans – Storm Over Europe”. A PC game about football hooligans.
Now it’s not cartoony, it’s very realistic and real-world like in appearance. The aim of the game? According to the website:
The object is to become the most notorious group of Hooligans in Europe. You must kill, maim and destroy the opposing Hooligan teams. You muster and control your faithful troops by administering drugs, alcohol and of course a good dose of violence every now and then. They must become true followers of your faction, for better or worse.
Not only good strategic skills are required but also a good political mindset and managing capabilities to keep your troops happy and violent.
Whoever is victorious and catches the publics attention in the media, will end up the most notorious Hooligans in Europe and the world! A title that every Hooligan with his heart in the right place loves to fight for!
You get bonus points for “attacking civilians to increase your wanted rating and bonuses for targeting minority groups”.
If you go to the website, you are greeted with a nice black and red image of a skinhead glaring out at you.
The forums are filled with racial hatred and “Firms” organising meetings and the most viscious racial abuse directed at other countries.
Some of the avatars you can choose are swastikas and other nazi symbols.
Game Ltd have refused to carry this game, and HMV and Virgin are coming under serious complaint from watchdog groups for stocking it.
It’s also not being released in Germany or America and Trading Standards are investigating the game to see if it contravenes the “Incitement to Racial Hatred” act passed since Sept 11th.
In Germany, it is illegal to have games displaying any symbolism of fascist iconography, and it is also illegal to use Nazi ideology as a basis for entertainment – rightly so but the UK has no such restrictions, we rely on public decency and morals.
Now I know this is just a game and all that, but what makes me unhappy is the reasoning behind the game. It’s one thing to play an undercover/ex cop trying to bring down a crime syndicate (GTA3), but it’s another thing entirely when the idea of a game is to commit racial murder and acts of hooliganism for the sole purpose of “Being the number 1 firm in Europe”.
And if I had any doubt about the intention or morality behind this game, then a visit to the forums for this game (I wont give out the URL as I object to Nazi propaganda) will indicate just where the game developer’s feelings lay. Several moderators have joined in the boasts about “the good old days” and making continued racial slurs and abuse towards people.
A game is a game, I understand that. And I’m not suggesting that by playing this game you will instantly become a nazi thug.
But seeing as we are in the 21st century, and especially since Sept 11th, I find it abhorrent that somebody still thinks it’s a good idea to bring out a game that rewards murder and racial hatred as if it were a noble thing.
If there was a game to be released called “Auschwitz Death Camp 2002: The Revenge” then there would be international outcry and, hopefully, condemnation from the world. But having investigated this game as best I can and as best as I can tolerate, I can see no difference between this game and tattooing a swastika on your head and “bashing p***s” as one poster proudly boasted.
The main game that caused contention last time was “GTA3”, but that had a strict moral guideline in it.
You could attack pedestrians if you wanted to, but you were working to bring down a criminal organisation. The wholesale slaughter was just there if you felt inclined to do so, and you would be arrested or shot after a few moments mayhem. You were working towards a goal that was pro-legal, you fought gangs etc to bring order and calm to Liberty City.
However, Hooligans exists solely to murder and cause violence for the sake of it.
You could say the same about State of Emergency, but they use the “Globol Corps” plot and you get penalised for attacking civilians, and if you look, all of your opponents are faceless white-people, there is no mission that involves attacking minority groups.
I’m not going to demand that Hooligans be banned, or that stores shouldn’t stock this game, I stand by personal choice and, unfortunately, that extends to allowing right-wing Nazis their say as well.
But I am extremely offended and unhappy about the notion that a game exists that promotes and actively encourages murderous, racist, thuggish behaviour for the sake of it.
The reward in commanding loyalty and devotions amongst your skinhead followers suggests that the feelings and emotions of the games developers involved in this game are not being ironic or making a comment about society.
This is bigoted, Nazi behaviour under the banner of “entertainment” and that is what I object to, not the game, but the ideology behind it.
Usually I’m the first person to defend “freedom of choice” and will stand up for a game/movie like GTA3/State of Emergency by saying “It’s a game, it allows you to do things for fun with no consequence”.
Except I’ve become aware of a game that has me genuinely concerned as to who would play it and why.
“Hooligans – Storm Over Europe”. A PC game about football hooligans.
Now it’s not cartoony, it’s very realistic and real-world like in appearance. The aim of the game? According to the website:
The object is to become the most notorious group of Hooligans in Europe. You must kill, maim and destroy the opposing Hooligan teams. You muster and control your faithful troops by administering drugs, alcohol and of course a good dose of violence every now and then. They must become true followers of your faction, for better or worse.
Not only good strategic skills are required but also a good political mindset and managing capabilities to keep your troops happy and violent.
Whoever is victorious and catches the publics attention in the media, will end up the most notorious Hooligans in Europe and the world! A title that every Hooligan with his heart in the right place loves to fight for!
You get bonus points for “attacking civilians to increase your wanted rating and bonuses for targeting minority groups”.
If you go to the website, you are greeted with a nice black and red image of a skinhead glaring out at you.
The forums are filled with racial hatred and “Firms” organising meetings and the most viscious racial abuse directed at other countries.
Some of the avatars you can choose are swastikas and other nazi symbols.
Game Ltd have refused to carry this game, and HMV and Virgin are coming under serious complaint from watchdog groups for stocking it.
It’s also not being released in Germany or America and Trading Standards are investigating the game to see if it contravenes the “Incitement to Racial Hatred” act passed since Sept 11th.
In Germany, it is illegal to have games displaying any symbolism of fascist iconography, and it is also illegal to use Nazi ideology as a basis for entertainment – rightly so but the UK has no such restrictions, we rely on public decency and morals.
Now I know this is just a game and all that, but what makes me unhappy is the reasoning behind the game. It’s one thing to play an undercover/ex cop trying to bring down a crime syndicate (GTA3), but it’s another thing entirely when the idea of a game is to commit racial murder and acts of hooliganism for the sole purpose of “Being the number 1 firm in Europe”.
And if I had any doubt about the intention or morality behind this game, then a visit to the forums for this game (I wont give out the URL as I object to Nazi propaganda) will indicate just where the game developer’s feelings lay. Several moderators have joined in the boasts about “the good old days” and making continued racial slurs and abuse towards people.
A game is a game, I understand that. And I’m not suggesting that by playing this game you will instantly become a nazi thug.
But seeing as we are in the 21st century, and especially since Sept 11th, I find it abhorrent that somebody still thinks it’s a good idea to bring out a game that rewards murder and racial hatred as if it were a noble thing.
If there was a game to be released called “Auschwitz Death Camp 2002: The Revenge” then there would be international outcry and, hopefully, condemnation from the world. But having investigated this game as best I can and as best as I can tolerate, I can see no difference between this game and tattooing a swastika on your head and “bashing p***s” as one poster proudly boasted.
The main game that caused contention last time was “GTA3”, but that had a strict moral guideline in it.
You could attack pedestrians if you wanted to, but you were working to bring down a criminal organisation. The wholesale slaughter was just there if you felt inclined to do so, and you would be arrested or shot after a few moments mayhem. You were working towards a goal that was pro-legal, you fought gangs etc to bring order and calm to Liberty City.
However, Hooligans exists solely to murder and cause violence for the sake of it.
You could say the same about State of Emergency, but they use the “Globol Corps” plot and you get penalised for attacking civilians, and if you look, all of your opponents are faceless white-people, there is no mission that involves attacking minority groups.
I’m not going to demand that Hooligans be banned, or that stores shouldn’t stock this game, I stand by personal choice and, unfortunately, that extends to allowing right-wing Nazis their say as well.
But I am extremely offended and unhappy about the notion that a game exists that promotes and actively encourages murderous, racist, thuggish behaviour for the sake of it.
The reward in commanding loyalty and devotions amongst your skinhead followers suggests that the feelings and emotions of the games developers involved in this game are not being ironic or making a comment about society.
This is bigoted, Nazi behaviour under the banner of “entertainment” and that is what I object to, not the game, but the ideology behind it.
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Jimmy Duck wrote:
> Maybe. but if i play mario it doesn't mean i'm a plumber so if i play this game
> about nazi's doesn't mean i'm a nazi.
So now you're saying maybe ? So "maybe" you're an idiot too eh ?
Most games are so far from real life that the player cannot hope to emulate what goes on in them at all. Even GTA3 isn't that bad when you look at it like that. Yes, you could go out now and punch the nearest old person you see, but if you live in anywhere remotely decent then you yourself will be the one in more serious need of medical care. Now being a football hooligan and a nazi, quite easy to do, numerous groups/websites out ther already, you could play the game, type in a web search, join a group, and be joining in with them within a week or so, though not the more organised groups as they have beomce aware of counter-ops against them (of which there should be more, but thats a different topic).
It seems clear that in this hooligan game there is going to be little to stop the player going on all out murder spree, and this will be a key part of thegame. Again, GTA3 lets you do this but has anyone ever outfought the police on level 4, without cheating, for longer than 15 minutes or so ? SOE uses a very limited sim of rioting to make the game playable, whereas this hooligan one is virtually picking up on every aspect of hooliganism/nazism possible.
Besides, I suspect Goatboy ha long since abandoned this topic in despair......
> Maybe. but if i play mario it doesn't mean i'm a plumber so if i play this game
> about nazi's doesn't mean i'm a nazi.
So now you're saying maybe ? So "maybe" you're an idiot too eh ?
Most games are so far from real life that the player cannot hope to emulate what goes on in them at all. Even GTA3 isn't that bad when you look at it like that. Yes, you could go out now and punch the nearest old person you see, but if you live in anywhere remotely decent then you yourself will be the one in more serious need of medical care. Now being a football hooligan and a nazi, quite easy to do, numerous groups/websites out ther already, you could play the game, type in a web search, join a group, and be joining in with them within a week or so, though not the more organised groups as they have beomce aware of counter-ops against them (of which there should be more, but thats a different topic).
It seems clear that in this hooligan game there is going to be little to stop the player going on all out murder spree, and this will be a key part of thegame. Again, GTA3 lets you do this but has anyone ever outfought the police on level 4, without cheating, for longer than 15 minutes or so ? SOE uses a very limited sim of rioting to make the game playable, whereas this hooligan one is virtually picking up on every aspect of hooliganism/nazism possible.
Besides, I suspect Goatboy ha long since abandoned this topic in despair......
Jimmy Duck wrote:
> True. and while we're on the subject the ammericans are just as fachist as the
> nazis with communist/captilist thing. yeah lets go and bomb vietnam and other
> poor countries that would make us look hard.
---
*Stares at the post*
*shakes head*
You really, really dont understand do you?
> True. and while we're on the subject the ammericans are just as fachist as the
> nazis with communist/captilist thing. yeah lets go and bomb vietnam and other
> poor countries that would make us look hard.
---
*Stares at the post*
*shakes head*
You really, really dont understand do you?
Jimmy Duck wrote:
This game is about being a nazi all games give of some sort of proganda in their title/idea. However small it may be. Some people won't wan to play this games because there feels it doing the wrong thing. Th thing is it's only a games and if you want to judge people by what game they play, then you're an idiot.
Congratulations. The biggest pile of bollix I have read yet. If you play it/read/listen it then it means automatically that you are not offended by it.
It quite possibly means you support it. That says a lot about the individual and does not make anyone else an idiot
This game is about being a nazi all games give of some sort of proganda in their title/idea. However small it may be. Some people won't wan to play this games because there feels it doing the wrong thing. Th thing is it's only a games and if you want to judge people by what game they play, then you're an idiot.
Congratulations. The biggest pile of bollix I have read yet. If you play it/read/listen it then it means automatically that you are not offended by it.
It quite possibly means you support it. That says a lot about the individual and does not make anyone else an idiot
Belldandy wrote:
So in other words its okay to talk about Americans killing people
> but as soon as its a little closer to home lets avoid the topic ? It is not
> American History if we committed those acts, is it ?
Of course not. America was just an example, as they are seen to be carrying the torch for 'freedom' at the moment.
If you look back I actually included Britain in my first comment and I have absolutely no problem with discussing what this country has commited in the past.
So in other words its okay to talk about Americans killing people
> but as soon as its a little closer to home lets avoid the topic ? It is not
> American History if we committed those acts, is it ?
Of course not. America was just an example, as they are seen to be carrying the torch for 'freedom' at the moment.
If you look back I actually included Britain in my first comment and I have absolutely no problem with discussing what this country has commited in the past.
Craw wrote:
> I bow down to your superior American history knowledge (no sarcasm intended).
>
It was more to amplify the point that where peoples
> beliefs/races/nationalities differ, there will always be conflict.
So in other words its okay to talk about Americans killing people but as soon as its a little closer to home lets avoid the topic ? It is not American History if we committed those acts, is it ?
> I bow down to your superior American history knowledge (no sarcasm intended).
>
It was more to amplify the point that where peoples
> beliefs/races/nationalities differ, there will always be conflict.
So in other words its okay to talk about Americans killing people but as soon as its a little closer to home lets avoid the topic ? It is not American History if we committed those acts, is it ?
*Deaf Brew Walks in late agen*
Jimmy Duck wrote:
> I used to pick know s
Ah well
*Backs away*
Jimmy Duck wrote:
> I used to pick know s
Ah well
*Backs away*
Craw wrote:
>some people use their 'status' as a reason
> to discriminate or abuse others of a lesser 'status'.
--
The very reason they are notable is that they do not do that.
>some people use their 'status' as a reason
> to discriminate or abuse others of a lesser 'status'.
--
The very reason they are notable is that they do not do that.
Once agian he has a point. I used to pick on newbies and whatnot all the time but i now know that some of them have the best ideas.
I dont think that comment is as off the topic as it seems.
The very idea of being judged by the colour of your name is a very basic form of discrimination. Not from SR's point of view because their system is based on longevity and eventually popularity, but they way some people use their 'status' as a reason to discriminate or abuse others of a lesser 'status'.
The very idea of being judged by the colour of your name is a very basic form of discrimination. Not from SR's point of view because their system is based on longevity and eventually popularity, but they way some people use their 'status' as a reason to discriminate or abuse others of a lesser 'status'.
I have to agree with you, just because you name is gold doesn't make you any better.
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