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Finding out about a game that has been released in a couple of European Countries has brought me out from my enforced hiatus to post my feelings about this:
Usually I’m the first person to defend “freedom of choice” and will stand up for a game/movie like GTA3/State of Emergency by saying “It’s a game, it allows you to do things for fun with no consequence”.
Except I’ve become aware of a game that has me genuinely concerned as to who would play it and why.
“Hooligans – Storm Over Europe”. A PC game about football hooligans.
Now it’s not cartoony, it’s very realistic and real-world like in appearance. The aim of the game? According to the website:
The object is to become the most notorious group of Hooligans in Europe. You must kill, maim and destroy the opposing Hooligan teams. You muster and control your faithful troops by administering drugs, alcohol and of course a good dose of violence every now and then. They must become true followers of your faction, for better or worse.
Not only good strategic skills are required but also a good political mindset and managing capabilities to keep your troops happy and violent.
Whoever is victorious and catches the publics attention in the media, will end up the most notorious Hooligans in Europe and the world! A title that every Hooligan with his heart in the right place loves to fight for!
You get bonus points for “attacking civilians to increase your wanted rating and bonuses for targeting minority groups”.
If you go to the website, you are greeted with a nice black and red image of a skinhead glaring out at you.
The forums are filled with racial hatred and “Firms” organising meetings and the most viscious racial abuse directed at other countries.
Some of the avatars you can choose are swastikas and other nazi symbols.
Game Ltd have refused to carry this game, and HMV and Virgin are coming under serious complaint from watchdog groups for stocking it.
It’s also not being released in Germany or America and Trading Standards are investigating the game to see if it contravenes the “Incitement to Racial Hatred” act passed since Sept 11th.
In Germany, it is illegal to have games displaying any symbolism of fascist iconography, and it is also illegal to use Nazi ideology as a basis for entertainment – rightly so but the UK has no such restrictions, we rely on public decency and morals.
Now I know this is just a game and all that, but what makes me unhappy is the reasoning behind the game. It’s one thing to play an undercover/ex cop trying to bring down a crime syndicate (GTA3), but it’s another thing entirely when the idea of a game is to commit racial murder and acts of hooliganism for the sole purpose of “Being the number 1 firm in Europe”.
And if I had any doubt about the intention or morality behind this game, then a visit to the forums for this game (I wont give out the URL as I object to Nazi propaganda) will indicate just where the game developer’s feelings lay. Several moderators have joined in the boasts about “the good old days” and making continued racial slurs and abuse towards people.
A game is a game, I understand that. And I’m not suggesting that by playing this game you will instantly become a nazi thug.
But seeing as we are in the 21st century, and especially since Sept 11th, I find it abhorrent that somebody still thinks it’s a good idea to bring out a game that rewards murder and racial hatred as if it were a noble thing.
If there was a game to be released called “Auschwitz Death Camp 2002: The Revenge” then there would be international outcry and, hopefully, condemnation from the world. But having investigated this game as best I can and as best as I can tolerate, I can see no difference between this game and tattooing a swastika on your head and “bashing p***s” as one poster proudly boasted.
The main game that caused contention last time was “GTA3”, but that had a strict moral guideline in it.
You could attack pedestrians if you wanted to, but you were working to bring down a criminal organisation. The wholesale slaughter was just there if you felt inclined to do so, and you would be arrested or shot after a few moments mayhem. You were working towards a goal that was pro-legal, you fought gangs etc to bring order and calm to Liberty City.
However, Hooligans exists solely to murder and cause violence for the sake of it.
You could say the same about State of Emergency, but they use the “Globol Corps” plot and you get penalised for attacking civilians, and if you look, all of your opponents are faceless white-people, there is no mission that involves attacking minority groups.
I’m not going to demand that Hooligans be banned, or that stores shouldn’t stock this game, I stand by personal choice and, unfortunately, that extends to allowing right-wing Nazis their say as well.
But I am extremely offended and unhappy about the notion that a game exists that promotes and actively encourages murderous, racist, thuggish behaviour for the sake of it.
The reward in commanding loyalty and devotions amongst your skinhead followers suggests that the feelings and emotions of the games developers involved in this game are not being ironic or making a comment about society.
This is bigoted, Nazi behaviour under the banner of “entertainment” and that is what I object to, not the game, but the ideology behind it.
Usually I’m the first person to defend “freedom of choice” and will stand up for a game/movie like GTA3/State of Emergency by saying “It’s a game, it allows you to do things for fun with no consequence”.
Except I’ve become aware of a game that has me genuinely concerned as to who would play it and why.
“Hooligans – Storm Over Europe”. A PC game about football hooligans.
Now it’s not cartoony, it’s very realistic and real-world like in appearance. The aim of the game? According to the website:
The object is to become the most notorious group of Hooligans in Europe. You must kill, maim and destroy the opposing Hooligan teams. You muster and control your faithful troops by administering drugs, alcohol and of course a good dose of violence every now and then. They must become true followers of your faction, for better or worse.
Not only good strategic skills are required but also a good political mindset and managing capabilities to keep your troops happy and violent.
Whoever is victorious and catches the publics attention in the media, will end up the most notorious Hooligans in Europe and the world! A title that every Hooligan with his heart in the right place loves to fight for!
You get bonus points for “attacking civilians to increase your wanted rating and bonuses for targeting minority groups”.
If you go to the website, you are greeted with a nice black and red image of a skinhead glaring out at you.
The forums are filled with racial hatred and “Firms” organising meetings and the most viscious racial abuse directed at other countries.
Some of the avatars you can choose are swastikas and other nazi symbols.
Game Ltd have refused to carry this game, and HMV and Virgin are coming under serious complaint from watchdog groups for stocking it.
It’s also not being released in Germany or America and Trading Standards are investigating the game to see if it contravenes the “Incitement to Racial Hatred” act passed since Sept 11th.
In Germany, it is illegal to have games displaying any symbolism of fascist iconography, and it is also illegal to use Nazi ideology as a basis for entertainment – rightly so but the UK has no such restrictions, we rely on public decency and morals.
Now I know this is just a game and all that, but what makes me unhappy is the reasoning behind the game. It’s one thing to play an undercover/ex cop trying to bring down a crime syndicate (GTA3), but it’s another thing entirely when the idea of a game is to commit racial murder and acts of hooliganism for the sole purpose of “Being the number 1 firm in Europe”.
And if I had any doubt about the intention or morality behind this game, then a visit to the forums for this game (I wont give out the URL as I object to Nazi propaganda) will indicate just where the game developer’s feelings lay. Several moderators have joined in the boasts about “the good old days” and making continued racial slurs and abuse towards people.
A game is a game, I understand that. And I’m not suggesting that by playing this game you will instantly become a nazi thug.
But seeing as we are in the 21st century, and especially since Sept 11th, I find it abhorrent that somebody still thinks it’s a good idea to bring out a game that rewards murder and racial hatred as if it were a noble thing.
If there was a game to be released called “Auschwitz Death Camp 2002: The Revenge” then there would be international outcry and, hopefully, condemnation from the world. But having investigated this game as best I can and as best as I can tolerate, I can see no difference between this game and tattooing a swastika on your head and “bashing p***s” as one poster proudly boasted.
The main game that caused contention last time was “GTA3”, but that had a strict moral guideline in it.
You could attack pedestrians if you wanted to, but you were working to bring down a criminal organisation. The wholesale slaughter was just there if you felt inclined to do so, and you would be arrested or shot after a few moments mayhem. You were working towards a goal that was pro-legal, you fought gangs etc to bring order and calm to Liberty City.
However, Hooligans exists solely to murder and cause violence for the sake of it.
You could say the same about State of Emergency, but they use the “Globol Corps” plot and you get penalised for attacking civilians, and if you look, all of your opponents are faceless white-people, there is no mission that involves attacking minority groups.
I’m not going to demand that Hooligans be banned, or that stores shouldn’t stock this game, I stand by personal choice and, unfortunately, that extends to allowing right-wing Nazis their say as well.
But I am extremely offended and unhappy about the notion that a game exists that promotes and actively encourages murderous, racist, thuggish behaviour for the sake of it.
The reward in commanding loyalty and devotions amongst your skinhead followers suggests that the feelings and emotions of the games developers involved in this game are not being ironic or making a comment about society.
This is bigoted, Nazi behaviour under the banner of “entertainment” and that is what I object to, not the game, but the ideology behind it.
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Not everyone will see this game on the same level, some will say "You get to be a hooligan, and beat loads of people up!"
They may not even notice that all ofthe people they're beating up are black, just think it's a fun game, a bit of a tactical beat em-up.
Others may realise see it as a real world level - it's based on real racist violence, and, as such, it's not really on, is it?
No other game has simply had you beating up ethnic minorities. Yes in Streets of Rage you were beating up women, black people, white people, but you had a higher goal, kill Mr Big, as he was the bad guy, or something. The fighting here didn't mean anything. In this hooligans game it's mirroring real world violence, and you're saying 'cool'. See the difference?
They may not even notice that all ofthe people they're beating up are black, just think it's a fun game, a bit of a tactical beat em-up.
Others may realise see it as a real world level - it's based on real racist violence, and, as such, it's not really on, is it?
No other game has simply had you beating up ethnic minorities. Yes in Streets of Rage you were beating up women, black people, white people, but you had a higher goal, kill Mr Big, as he was the bad guy, or something. The fighting here didn't mean anything. In this hooligans game it's mirroring real world violence, and you're saying 'cool'. See the difference?
Goatboy wrote:
It's not the violence per se, it's the idealogy behind it. The notion that you are rewarded for nazi behaviour and it is condoned/encouraged.
Thats what I've been trying to say - nice way to sum it all up I think.
It's not the violence per se, it's the idealogy behind it. The notion that you are rewarded for nazi behaviour and it is condoned/encouraged.
Thats what I've been trying to say - nice way to sum it all up I think.
Brew wrote:
> *Walks in gargling milkshake, and only hearing odd words*
Shut. Up.
> *Walks in gargling milkshake, and only hearing odd words*
Shut. Up.
Jimmy Duck wrote:
In GTA3 you can gun down old women on the strrets it good
> enterainment not because it's nice because it's ESCAPISM. Same with your nazi
> game. If you had a bad day coming home to beat people up who ever thenit
> relieves the stress.
---
But you're missing the point here.
GTA3. Gun down an old woman and you get arrested/busted/killed and it's just something there outside of the structured missions.
You get punished for behaving like that.
The entire point of the hooligan game, and it actively encourages violent behaviour towards minority groups for no other purpose than "that's the whole game".
It's not the violence per se, it's the idealogy behind it. The notion that you are rewarded for nazi behaviour and it is condoned/encouraged.
In GTA3 you can gun down old women on the strrets it good
> enterainment not because it's nice because it's ESCAPISM. Same with your nazi
> game. If you had a bad day coming home to beat people up who ever thenit
> relieves the stress.
---
But you're missing the point here.
GTA3. Gun down an old woman and you get arrested/busted/killed and it's just something there outside of the structured missions.
You get punished for behaving like that.
The entire point of the hooligan game, and it actively encourages violent behaviour towards minority groups for no other purpose than "that's the whole game".
It's not the violence per se, it's the idealogy behind it. The notion that you are rewarded for nazi behaviour and it is condoned/encouraged.
Jimmy Duck wrote:
> I hate this sort of subject, just say one thing wrong and you're a Nazi, racist,
> bigot etc.
The thing is people don't mind shooting Nazis but when it come to
> being bnazi in games they can't understand why. I my self use the console games
> purely for escapism and i'm sure many others do, so if some people want to
> pretend to be nazis then let them. It doesn't effect you does it?
What does it say about you if you want to control a nazi ? Escapism ? I can thik of better things to escape to. In games like Medal Of Honour Allied Assault you kill nazis because - and heres the big shock - its a WAR. In MOHAA there is a moral and strategic reason to kill the enemy, the game goatboy is describing has none of these. If this game comes out, then others will follow, and more people will start to believe in such groups, and there will be more websites...and so on. Germany rightly bans such material.
Hooliganism and current day nazism is just an excuse for violence and racial hatred. These groups like the BNP hide under the banner of "freedom of speech" but would be the first to take those rights from others if given the chance. Rather than trying to give people the chance to play such games, developers, and other groups, should help to erase all memory of an ideology that nearly destroyed the free world.
Craws comments about the USA, UK and Afghanistan are stupid, and he should know they are. Comparing that to the Germans and the Jews is so stupid its unbelievable, unless Craw happens to have video footage of such actions, in which case he is the only one with that footage and can bring down two governments in one day. I think not, its the usual anti-war, no facts, rubbish.
This game needs banning, quickly.
> I hate this sort of subject, just say one thing wrong and you're a Nazi, racist,
> bigot etc.
The thing is people don't mind shooting Nazis but when it come to
> being bnazi in games they can't understand why. I my self use the console games
> purely for escapism and i'm sure many others do, so if some people want to
> pretend to be nazis then let them. It doesn't effect you does it?
What does it say about you if you want to control a nazi ? Escapism ? I can thik of better things to escape to. In games like Medal Of Honour Allied Assault you kill nazis because - and heres the big shock - its a WAR. In MOHAA there is a moral and strategic reason to kill the enemy, the game goatboy is describing has none of these. If this game comes out, then others will follow, and more people will start to believe in such groups, and there will be more websites...and so on. Germany rightly bans such material.
Hooliganism and current day nazism is just an excuse for violence and racial hatred. These groups like the BNP hide under the banner of "freedom of speech" but would be the first to take those rights from others if given the chance. Rather than trying to give people the chance to play such games, developers, and other groups, should help to erase all memory of an ideology that nearly destroyed the free world.
Craws comments about the USA, UK and Afghanistan are stupid, and he should know they are. Comparing that to the Germans and the Jews is so stupid its unbelievable, unless Craw happens to have video footage of such actions, in which case he is the only one with that footage and can bring down two governments in one day. I think not, its the usual anti-war, no facts, rubbish.
This game needs banning, quickly.
*Walks in gargling milkshake, and only hearing odd words*
Goatboy wrote:
> Let me clarify:
> Duck's
> reasoning as to
> getting banged up
> is one big ironic joke
*leaves promptly*
Goatboy wrote:
> Let me clarify:
> Duck's
> reasoning as to
> getting banged up
> is one big ironic joke
*leaves promptly*
Its escapism until you start playing with real world ideas and things which shocked the world.
Once again I shall ask:
If I gave you a game where you had to hijack a plane, stab stewardesses and crash into famous landmarks (trying to get the largest kill count), would you play it?
Thats where escapism turns into sickness
Once again I shall ask:
If I gave you a game where you had to hijack a plane, stab stewardesses and crash into famous landmarks (trying to get the largest kill count), would you play it?
Thats where escapism turns into sickness
Let me clarify:
I was talking about Duck's response to my original post with "sounds cool".
A post without thought or reasoning as to why it sounds cool.
But he now appears to say "it sounds fun to do this without getting banged up".
I really, really hope this is one big ironic joke on me, otherwise something is terribly wrong here.
I was talking about Duck's response to my original post with "sounds cool".
A post without thought or reasoning as to why it sounds cool.
But he now appears to say "it sounds fun to do this without getting banged up".
I really, really hope this is one big ironic joke on me, otherwise something is terribly wrong here.
Goatboy wrote:
> So it sounds fun to be able to attack ethnic groups without the consequence of
> law?
What am I not seeing here?
What am I not understanding?
In GTA3 you can gun down old women on the strrets it good enterainment not because it's nice because it's ESCAPISM. Same with your nazi game. If you had a bad day coming home to beat people up who ever thenit relieves the stress.
> So it sounds fun to be able to attack ethnic groups without the consequence of
> law?
What am I not seeing here?
What am I not understanding?
In GTA3 you can gun down old women on the strrets it good enterainment not because it's nice because it's ESCAPISM. Same with your nazi game. If you had a bad day coming home to beat people up who ever thenit relieves the stress.
he was talking about what i said.
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