The "General Games Chat" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2419007.stm
BBC/Daily Mail/Stupid People begin to worry about whether GTA:Vice City will encourage violence amongst children.
Must be a slow news day.
How come nobody asks us? Because we'd laugh and walk away is why.
Altogether now kids:
Video games are evil, they warp my mind. I want to kill everyone because I played a computer game.
Here's what really makes me sick:
Stupid Parent "Grand Theft Auto will make my child evil!"
Normal Person "Take responsibility for teaching your child right and wrong then"
Stupid Parent "Little Timmy played it and he's going to worship Satan and rape people and snort drugs, I just know it"
Normal Person "Raise your child correctly then, spend time with Timmy. Stop expecting teachers to raise your children and you dump them in front of video games and tv with burgers"
Stupid Parent "But evil videogames baaaaah! Baaaaah! Baaaaaah!"
Normal Person "Why weren't you concerned when you let them go trick or treating by themselves. At night, alone? Why are you so worried about a game?"
Stupid Person "Because the paper says to be! Baaaah! Baaaah! Baaaaah!"
BBC/Daily Mail/Stupid People begin to worry about whether GTA:Vice City will encourage violence amongst children.
Must be a slow news day.
How come nobody asks us? Because we'd laugh and walk away is why.
Altogether now kids:
Video games are evil, they warp my mind. I want to kill everyone because I played a computer game.
Here's what really makes me sick:
Stupid Parent "Grand Theft Auto will make my child evil!"
Normal Person "Take responsibility for teaching your child right and wrong then"
Stupid Parent "Little Timmy played it and he's going to worship Satan and rape people and snort drugs, I just know it"
Normal Person "Raise your child correctly then, spend time with Timmy. Stop expecting teachers to raise your children and you dump them in front of video games and tv with burgers"
Stupid Parent "But evil videogames baaaaah! Baaaaah! Baaaaaah!"
Normal Person "Why weren't you concerned when you let them go trick or treating by themselves. At night, alone? Why are you so worried about a game?"
Stupid Person "Because the paper says to be! Baaaah! Baaaah! Baaaaah!"
Page:
Oh yeah.
hi gerrid
and the others
and the others
www.illmitch.com
http://urnn.n-chicken.net/secretfolder! -[space]- /forumpics/gaythread1.gif
What a marvelous contribution :)
I'm going out to get drunk. And steal cars.
I'm going out to get drunk. And steal cars.
unknown kernel wrote:
he wrote alot of stuff including:
> I see your point. and
> I was guilty of some knee-jerk libertarianism back There. also
> A lot of people might say this opinion is silly. ture
> I certainly don't think the authorities should slap an 18 certificate on
> war games just because one pinko pacifist doesn't approve.
Rosalind Wrote:
she wrote a few things
> This is true, of course, but I don't think you can legislate away bad
> parenting. A bad parent will buy GTA:VC for a ten year old regardless
> of an 18 certificate. thank god im not 10 im 13 is that ok?
> Often the problem is not one of sex or violence, but of sex and
> violence. wots that supposed to mean?
he wrote alot of stuff including:
> I see your point. and
> I was guilty of some knee-jerk libertarianism back There. also
> A lot of people might say this opinion is silly. ture
> I certainly don't think the authorities should slap an 18 certificate on
> war games just because one pinko pacifist doesn't approve.
Rosalind Wrote:
she wrote a few things
> This is true, of course, but I don't think you can legislate away bad
> parenting. A bad parent will buy GTA:VC for a ten year old regardless
> of an 18 certificate. thank god im not 10 im 13 is that ok?
> Often the problem is not one of sex or violence, but of sex and
> violence. wots that supposed to mean?
GTA will have an affect on kids but only the kids that are seriously twisted in the first place.
What really peeved me off was that mothers were buying it for their 12 year old sons after we said 'Its an 18 rated, you ok with that?'
They answer 'Yeap, thats ok, is it bad for him?'
They answer 'Yeap, thats ok, is it bad for him?'
Rosalind wrote:
> Where do you draw the line? What is mature enough. The goverment have
> chose to draw that line at 18 when you legally become an adult. Some
> people may be very mature by this age while others will not yet be
> fully mature, but you cannot have one restrition for one person and
> another for others. Do you suggest that we all take some sort of
> maturity test to decide if we can now become an adult?
I see your point: I was guilty of some knee-jerk libertarianism back there. As an adult I don't want to be told what I can acceptably find entertaining, but of course there should be some restrictions on what children see and do. What I object to is a blanket definition of what is bad for children; I think this is a matter for the family, not for government. For example, I don't particularly like war games, especially the recent rash of titles about Vietnam and the Gulf. Replaying recent and morally dubious wars is not really a 'game' to me. If I had kids I doubt that I'd let them play Conflict: Desert Storm and the like. A lot of people might say this opinion is silly, but it's the way that *I* feel; I'm not interested in imposing it on anyone else, and I certainly don't think the authorities should slap an 18 certificate on war games just because one pinko pacifist doesn't approve.
> Can the law trust a childs parents to decide for them what it is right
> for them to see? While many parents are trustworthy sensible people
> there are many others who simply do not care or realise that they have
> a duty to guard thier children
This is true, of course, but I don't think you can legislate away bad parenting. A bad parent will buy GTA:VC for a ten year old regardless of an 18 certificate; but a good parent who buys the game for a fifteen year old (who they believe can distinguish videogames from reality) is criminalised. My personal beliefs mean I'd prefer to live in a society where we are free to make mistakes, than to live in a society which has laws governing good taste and good parenting. I believe in setting age limits on who can buy certain things, but I then think that parents should be free to decide if their kids can play or watch.
> Often the problem is not one of sex or violence, but of sex and
> violence. While some of the books you have mentioned contain one or
> the other, most books which contain both are found on the top shelf
> with an adults only warning on them.
I agree. But the problem as I see it is that an 18-certificate is so cheapened in the videogame world that it's harder and harder to weed out the offensive, potentially damaging stuff from the harmless Daily Mail baiters. Take the upcoming BMX XXX (or whatever it's called) game: you can play as a topless woman, people swear, there are pimps. It's puerile stuff and, though it might get a few hormonal boys a bit hot under the collar, it isn't going to warp anyone's mind: but you can bet your bottom dollar that it'll be an 18. And then when a game comes along that flirts with fascism like Hooligans or features video nasty-style sexual violence, parents - who, let's face it, know nothing about videogames - are apt to say 'Well, it's just another Duke Nukem, let's buy it for little Johnny.' Blanket age restrictions like this let parents abdicate their responsibility: if they think the government is always right then (no real disaster) Johnny lives a bit of a sheltered life; if they see Duke Nukem and draw the conclusion that the government is always wrong then Johnny can get his hands on all sorts of horrible stuff.
> Where do you draw the line? What is mature enough. The goverment have
> chose to draw that line at 18 when you legally become an adult. Some
> people may be very mature by this age while others will not yet be
> fully mature, but you cannot have one restrition for one person and
> another for others. Do you suggest that we all take some sort of
> maturity test to decide if we can now become an adult?
I see your point: I was guilty of some knee-jerk libertarianism back there. As an adult I don't want to be told what I can acceptably find entertaining, but of course there should be some restrictions on what children see and do. What I object to is a blanket definition of what is bad for children; I think this is a matter for the family, not for government. For example, I don't particularly like war games, especially the recent rash of titles about Vietnam and the Gulf. Replaying recent and morally dubious wars is not really a 'game' to me. If I had kids I doubt that I'd let them play Conflict: Desert Storm and the like. A lot of people might say this opinion is silly, but it's the way that *I* feel; I'm not interested in imposing it on anyone else, and I certainly don't think the authorities should slap an 18 certificate on war games just because one pinko pacifist doesn't approve.
> Can the law trust a childs parents to decide for them what it is right
> for them to see? While many parents are trustworthy sensible people
> there are many others who simply do not care or realise that they have
> a duty to guard thier children
This is true, of course, but I don't think you can legislate away bad parenting. A bad parent will buy GTA:VC for a ten year old regardless of an 18 certificate; but a good parent who buys the game for a fifteen year old (who they believe can distinguish videogames from reality) is criminalised. My personal beliefs mean I'd prefer to live in a society where we are free to make mistakes, than to live in a society which has laws governing good taste and good parenting. I believe in setting age limits on who can buy certain things, but I then think that parents should be free to decide if their kids can play or watch.
> Often the problem is not one of sex or violence, but of sex and
> violence. While some of the books you have mentioned contain one or
> the other, most books which contain both are found on the top shelf
> with an adults only warning on them.
I agree. But the problem as I see it is that an 18-certificate is so cheapened in the videogame world that it's harder and harder to weed out the offensive, potentially damaging stuff from the harmless Daily Mail baiters. Take the upcoming BMX XXX (or whatever it's called) game: you can play as a topless woman, people swear, there are pimps. It's puerile stuff and, though it might get a few hormonal boys a bit hot under the collar, it isn't going to warp anyone's mind: but you can bet your bottom dollar that it'll be an 18. And then when a game comes along that flirts with fascism like Hooligans or features video nasty-style sexual violence, parents - who, let's face it, know nothing about videogames - are apt to say 'Well, it's just another Duke Nukem, let's buy it for little Johnny.' Blanket age restrictions like this let parents abdicate their responsibility: if they think the government is always right then (no real disaster) Johnny lives a bit of a sheltered life; if they see Duke Nukem and draw the conclusion that the government is always wrong then Johnny can get his hands on all sorts of horrible stuff.
Insane Bartender wrote:
> "I'm 17, better not play vilent games, they will make a sewer of
> my mind, corrupt me and turn me to evil. Fortunately, I turn 18 in a
> few days, after that I can buy it, and have developed an impenitrable
> mental shield that will protect me from outside influences on my
> subconscious."
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Good point.
A bit like the Brass Eye DVD where Chris Moris interviews parents about paedophilia:
"What if your sixteen year old son came up to you and said 'Until a few days ago I had a thing for fifteen year old girls, but I'm over it now'. Would you believe him?"
"No. Take him down the police station..."
> "I'm 17, better not play vilent games, they will make a sewer of
> my mind, corrupt me and turn me to evil. Fortunately, I turn 18 in a
> few days, after that I can buy it, and have developed an impenitrable
> mental shield that will protect me from outside influences on my
> subconscious."
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Good point.
A bit like the Brass Eye DVD where Chris Moris interviews parents about paedophilia:
"What if your sixteen year old son came up to you and said 'Until a few days ago I had a thing for fifteen year old girls, but I'm over it now'. Would you believe him?"
"No. Take him down the police station..."
Page: