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For the first time in years, there are more than two serious consoles hitting the market. Even more amazingly, two of these consoles are launching head-to-head, and the other is extremely well established... both with brand name and games.
So, not only has Nintendo got to compete with Sony (again!), but this time Microsoft have joined the scene. Add to that, the PS2 has had two Christmases worth of sales, and a huge repetoire of games, and the Xbox has a huge marketting budget (and a strong launch to go).
Clearly, Nintendo cannot compete with Microsoft on the TV screens- they simply don't ahve the money for that.
Oh no... Ninty have a far greater weapon at their disposly- games. And lots of them. With characters and franchises ranging from Mario and Zelda to Metroid and Kirby you wouldn't be suprised if Nintendo launched the Gamecube with the best line up of AAA titles seen...
In fact, I thought Nintendo had gone one better when they announced, a while back, that they had given the rights to many of their games away. Metroid, Smash Brothers and Starfox, amongst others, were to have sequals made by developers outside Nintendo. This would then enable Nintendo to concentrate on making some of the most spectacular games ever. Maybe a new Zelda for launch? Maybe something totally new!
But alas, things seem to be crumbling. First we hear news of Ninty's in house games. It turns out that Mario and Zelda will be absent from launch, to be replaced by a couple of weaker games. Ok, so the in house games are good fun, no doubt, BUT will these attract gamers to buy the Gamcube. Methinks not.
Nor will the news of a new Zelda wet gamers appetites- 90% of gamers are the casual sort who will buy a console on brandname alone, and don't read multiformat mags. How are Nintendo going to get these gamers to part with their PS2s, and buy a console that looks like a kids toy? (Sorry, but the console doesn't look "serious".)
OH! And things get worse!...
Those franchised games Ninty have given out aren't all they were promised to be.
At Spaceworld, there was a big absence of Metroid clips- only 8 seconds of the game were shown. Asked why this was, Mr. Miyamoto had to admit that he'd only got the code for the game just before the show, and he wasn't impressed by what he saw. The game had bad pop-up, no sound, was not interactive, and certainly wasn't worth the months of work that had been spent on it. (I believe the game was 8 months into developent at this time!). In fact, the whole future of the game looked on a knife edge.
The other games Ninty had handed out were all good, but many were so far from ready that you wonder why Nintendo didn't just make one of these games themselves to get it out at launch.
Before Nintendo fans throw a riot, let me just saya few things:
1) I am only talking about launch titles
2) I'm a huge Miyamoto fan and will be buying a GC myself
3) This topic is MEANT to cause discussion.
Oh, and remember, all the titles that miss release will come out eventually. So those Zeldas and Marios will certainly mean the console is a great piece of kit. That;s not what I'm arguing about.
I just want to know where all of Ninty's time has gone? They've given away many of their big games, has ages to make a killer titles, and instead they come out with Pikmin... fun, but not AAA by any means.
Sonic
So, not only has Nintendo got to compete with Sony (again!), but this time Microsoft have joined the scene. Add to that, the PS2 has had two Christmases worth of sales, and a huge repetoire of games, and the Xbox has a huge marketting budget (and a strong launch to go).
Clearly, Nintendo cannot compete with Microsoft on the TV screens- they simply don't ahve the money for that.
Oh no... Ninty have a far greater weapon at their disposly- games. And lots of them. With characters and franchises ranging from Mario and Zelda to Metroid and Kirby you wouldn't be suprised if Nintendo launched the Gamecube with the best line up of AAA titles seen...
In fact, I thought Nintendo had gone one better when they announced, a while back, that they had given the rights to many of their games away. Metroid, Smash Brothers and Starfox, amongst others, were to have sequals made by developers outside Nintendo. This would then enable Nintendo to concentrate on making some of the most spectacular games ever. Maybe a new Zelda for launch? Maybe something totally new!
But alas, things seem to be crumbling. First we hear news of Ninty's in house games. It turns out that Mario and Zelda will be absent from launch, to be replaced by a couple of weaker games. Ok, so the in house games are good fun, no doubt, BUT will these attract gamers to buy the Gamcube. Methinks not.
Nor will the news of a new Zelda wet gamers appetites- 90% of gamers are the casual sort who will buy a console on brandname alone, and don't read multiformat mags. How are Nintendo going to get these gamers to part with their PS2s, and buy a console that looks like a kids toy? (Sorry, but the console doesn't look "serious".)
OH! And things get worse!...
Those franchised games Ninty have given out aren't all they were promised to be.
At Spaceworld, there was a big absence of Metroid clips- only 8 seconds of the game were shown. Asked why this was, Mr. Miyamoto had to admit that he'd only got the code for the game just before the show, and he wasn't impressed by what he saw. The game had bad pop-up, no sound, was not interactive, and certainly wasn't worth the months of work that had been spent on it. (I believe the game was 8 months into developent at this time!). In fact, the whole future of the game looked on a knife edge.
The other games Ninty had handed out were all good, but many were so far from ready that you wonder why Nintendo didn't just make one of these games themselves to get it out at launch.
Before Nintendo fans throw a riot, let me just saya few things:
1) I am only talking about launch titles
2) I'm a huge Miyamoto fan and will be buying a GC myself
3) This topic is MEANT to cause discussion.
Oh, and remember, all the titles that miss release will come out eventually. So those Zeldas and Marios will certainly mean the console is a great piece of kit. That;s not what I'm arguing about.
I just want to know where all of Ninty's time has gone? They've given away many of their big games, has ages to make a killer titles, and instead they come out with Pikmin... fun, but not AAA by any means.
Sonic
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Interesting thing about Ninty's "niche market"....
You tended to see quite a few publishers specifically targetting the N64 for two reasons:
1) They had a younger audience to target
2) There was less competition!
Sonic
You tended to see quite a few publishers specifically targetting the N64 for two reasons:
1) They had a younger audience to target
2) There was less competition!
Sonic
Er, I meant PS2, not PS".
The way I see it, the future for me could be split three ways:
1) I'll be buying both the Gamecube AND the Xbox, subject to financial status, to go along with my PS". Just because they're all so tempting;
2) I'll be sticking with my PS" and save up my money for practical use i.e. to but a Tablet PC (have you seen them? You can finally say goodbye to paper)
3)I could die imminently, or suffer from blindness or bexome disabled, and not have the chance to eXPerience (sorry) any of these techie and gaming delights.
If all goes (really) well though, hopefully I'll be able to twist my destiny and get 1 and 2 combined. Heh. But that's being greedy.
1) I'll be buying both the Gamecube AND the Xbox, subject to financial status, to go along with my PS". Just because they're all so tempting;
2) I'll be sticking with my PS" and save up my money for practical use i.e. to but a Tablet PC (have you seen them? You can finally say goodbye to paper)
3)I could die imminently, or suffer from blindness or bexome disabled, and not have the chance to eXPerience (sorry) any of these techie and gaming delights.
If all goes (really) well though, hopefully I'll be able to twist my destiny and get 1 and 2 combined. Heh. But that's being greedy.
To be honest, initally I was surprised at the level of success held by the GC on its US release... especially after the mediocre Japanese resease details...
Though, I reckon, fair play to them?
I think Nintendo will do very well with the GC... Though I dont think they will be the main attraction...
The interesting battle will be between Microsoft and Sony...
Nintendo do, famously (or maybe infamously?) target their console toward the family market... MS and Sony on the optherhand seem to target their console at the late teen/twenty-something market...
In which case, in a crazy Meka kinda way, Nintendo have the sharehold of a market niche all wrapped up...
Ive even noticed Nintendo making some comments about the X-Box and PS2, which I think seems to be shooting themselves in the foot since its probably in their interestes to let them battle it out for themselves...???
Though, I reckon, fair play to them?
I think Nintendo will do very well with the GC... Though I dont think they will be the main attraction...
The interesting battle will be between Microsoft and Sony...
Nintendo do, famously (or maybe infamously?) target their console toward the family market... MS and Sony on the optherhand seem to target their console at the late teen/twenty-something market...
In which case, in a crazy Meka kinda way, Nintendo have the sharehold of a market niche all wrapped up...
Ive even noticed Nintendo making some comments about the X-Box and PS2, which I think seems to be shooting themselves in the foot since its probably in their interestes to let them battle it out for themselves...???
Although not necessarily 'bleak' it has to be said Nintendo face an uphill struggle if their to mount any serious challenge to Sony or Microsoft. I doubt very much that the GC will be in any way shape or form a failure, but I think it's a little too optimistic to think about any form of market domination.
Nintendo need to get a firm grip on the market to stop themselves falling right away from the 'pack'. I sincerely hope that ALL three consoles succeed, because a gaming world WITHOUT Nintendo, just wouldn't be right.
Nintendo need to get a firm grip on the market to stop themselves falling right away from the 'pack'. I sincerely hope that ALL three consoles succeed, because a gaming world WITHOUT Nintendo, just wouldn't be right.
Meka_Dragon wrote:
"You see, to me it's missing the types of games I love best...."
Well, that's fair enough, but for most gamers the Xbox has exactly the games they're looking for- a good racer, fighter, FPS etc... just a thumb in every pie so-to-speak.
This is where MS has come out strongest
Sonic
"You see, to me it's missing the types of games I love best...."
Well, that's fair enough, but for most gamers the Xbox has exactly the games they're looking for- a good racer, fighter, FPS etc... just a thumb in every pie so-to-speak.
This is where MS has come out strongest
Sonic
Meka_Dragon wrote:
> ===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> I've gotta disagree when you say that MS doesn't
> hasn't got a strong line up- I
> think it's the best console launch line up
> ever! After all, it has excellent AAA
> fighting, driving and action
> games... better than eny other launch line up I've
> seen.
You see, to me
> it's missing the types of games I love best, the adventure type games. I can see
> Luigi's Mansion filling this for a short while on the Gamecube, and it takes me
> a long time to get through games, given my family circumstances, by the time
> I've got through that Starfox Adventures may well be out, and there's months of
> gaming for me there.
Dringo appolagises for arguing for Sonic and says... Oddworld... Dringo runs off.
> ===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> I've gotta disagree when you say that MS doesn't
> hasn't got a strong line up- I
> think it's the best console launch line up
> ever! After all, it has excellent AAA
> fighting, driving and action
> games... better than eny other launch line up I've
> seen.
You see, to me
> it's missing the types of games I love best, the adventure type games. I can see
> Luigi's Mansion filling this for a short while on the Gamecube, and it takes me
> a long time to get through games, given my family circumstances, by the time
> I've got through that Starfox Adventures may well be out, and there's months of
> gaming for me there.
Dringo appolagises for arguing for Sonic and says... Oddworld... Dringo runs off.
===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> I've gotta disagree when you say that MS doesn't hasn't got a strong line up- I
> think it's the best console launch line up ever! After all, it has excellent AAA
> fighting, driving and action games... better than eny other launch line up I've
> seen.
You see, to me it's missing the types of games I love best, the adventure type games. I can see Luigi's Mansion filling this for a short while on the Gamecube, and it takes me a long time to get through games, given my family circumstances, by the time I've got through that Starfox Adventures may well be out, and there's months of gaming for me there.
I've never been a fan of fighting games, I struggle even with Super Smash Bros. Only Street Fighter 2 has ever really been a favourite of mine, and when it comes to racers I'm a karter rather than a realsitic driver.
But hey, it's different tastes that make the 'Cube the best for me. The Xbox's games just don't pull my chain. Yet.
Oh, and one more thing Meka says that he sees Ninty making more money
> on the GC than the N64... I have to disagree...
NOT because the GC will have
> worse sales, but simply because Ninty got a huge profit by printing N64 games
> onto cart... something they can't do with the GC! (The fact that Ninty charged
> such high amounts for publishing N64 games dettered a lot of
> developers!)
True, I hadn't thought of this. Still I expect Nintendo to have a larger slice of the pie this time around, so it could still be more.
>Finally, I have to agree with you, Meka.
Yep, you have to, it's in the contract. ;-)
> I've gotta disagree when you say that MS doesn't hasn't got a strong line up- I
> think it's the best console launch line up ever! After all, it has excellent AAA
> fighting, driving and action games... better than eny other launch line up I've
> seen.
You see, to me it's missing the types of games I love best, the adventure type games. I can see Luigi's Mansion filling this for a short while on the Gamecube, and it takes me a long time to get through games, given my family circumstances, by the time I've got through that Starfox Adventures may well be out, and there's months of gaming for me there.
I've never been a fan of fighting games, I struggle even with Super Smash Bros. Only Street Fighter 2 has ever really been a favourite of mine, and when it comes to racers I'm a karter rather than a realsitic driver.
But hey, it's different tastes that make the 'Cube the best for me. The Xbox's games just don't pull my chain. Yet.
Oh, and one more thing Meka says that he sees Ninty making more money
> on the GC than the N64... I have to disagree...
NOT because the GC will have
> worse sales, but simply because Ninty got a huge profit by printing N64 games
> onto cart... something they can't do with the GC! (The fact that Ninty charged
> such high amounts for publishing N64 games dettered a lot of
> developers!)
True, I hadn't thought of this. Still I expect Nintendo to have a larger slice of the pie this time around, so it could still be more.
>Finally, I have to agree with you, Meka.
Yep, you have to, it's in the contract. ;-)
===SONICRAV---> wrote:
> Dringo wrote:
"Halo was wicked DoA3 was dissapointing as was Project
> Gotham i've been keeping up to date with teh X-box"
Ummmm...Project
> Gotham got brilliant reviews, saying it was an excellent sequal to MSR, and that
> it was easily amble to comete with GT3... as for DOA3, the game is said to be
> great, although I haven't seen any full reviews yet.
Project gotham didn't really sell though and go to Gamespot to see DoA3 as a runner up for the most dissapointing game of the year.
On the contrary! Carts ARE more
> expansive, as you say, however, Nintendo charged HUGE premiums for having the
> pleasure of getting games on a Ninty branded console. The reason being Ninty
> assummed that the N64 would be a huge success, and that people would flock to
> them. The company even said that only Ninty's own games would be sold on the
> console at first, with more coming out later... how arrogant is that for
> you!
It was the attractivity of the Playstation if it wasn't around then Nintendo would of been damn right. At least they've got it sorted now and optical discs are mini DVD's only used for the Gamecube's format. Therefore harder to copy.
"As for developers thats
> the point Nintendo have tonnes more, the Gamecube is cheaper, the games will be
> cheaper, the game catalogue will be 10 time bigger than the N64 probably even
> bigger than the PS1 with most major third parties signing with
> Nintendo."
Errrr.... a MAJORITY signed to Ninty... simply not true at
> all! Most are going with the PS2 simply because it already has a huge userbase,
> and looks likely to continue enlarging this all the time... thus this is the
> most safe market. Where on Earth did you hear this???!??!?
I am referring to Gamecube and they are 3rd party so im meaning both systems, Namco took ages to do anything on the N64 releasing 2 games only one being of any quality, on the gamecube they have 8 planned including Kolano 2, Soul Calibur2 and Rideg Racer 5. Capcom have Mickey Mouse and Resident Evil Gamecube exclusive with many others still announced, infogrammes have 20 titles in the works, THq have also 20 titles in the works, Acclaim have 15, Sega have 22, EA have 12, They are the major third party support and theya re much much much much much much much more than the N64 had Gamecube looks to have around 60+ third party titles by the end of next year and the N64 had 1.
I never said majority i said tonnes more more developers for nintendo not more compared with Sony.
"Exactly so
> why do we care, why do Nintendo care, saying the PS2 outsells the Gamecube is
> pointless. the Game industry during the SNES era was small compared to today
> very small. the SNES was the biggest ever then came the PS1 and the game
> industry got bigger and bigger yes more people bought the PS1 but because of
> this increase in public interest, the N64 sold more than the SNES as the
> industry was larger! There was more people to buy Nintendo's goods when the
> industry grew, this means Nintendo made more money because of Sony not
> less!"
AH! But companies need more money to stay om the business these
> days too! Sega got 10 million DCs sold, and even they couldn't keep safe- even
> though the number is larger than the combined worldwide sales of every other
> Sega console! (Well, that's a guess.... but it's probably right?)
And anyway,
> more gamers on your console means more customers, means more third parties,
> means a bigger range of games! How can that be a bad thing???
Nintendo have the major third parties there is only one third party i want to develop for Gamecube who don't and thats Squaresoft and they are now Sony shared owned. The major parties are gamecube round the rest are not worth having and Nintendo are offering money to younger developers we are getting them and as for Nintendo themselves there is about 30 being worked on by shigsy alone and then there is Retro studios, left field, Rare, Silicon Knights,HAL, Camelot etc... all mega second parties.
Dronic.
> Dringo wrote:
"Halo was wicked DoA3 was dissapointing as was Project
> Gotham i've been keeping up to date with teh X-box"
Ummmm...Project
> Gotham got brilliant reviews, saying it was an excellent sequal to MSR, and that
> it was easily amble to comete with GT3... as for DOA3, the game is said to be
> great, although I haven't seen any full reviews yet.
Project gotham didn't really sell though and go to Gamespot to see DoA3 as a runner up for the most dissapointing game of the year.
On the contrary! Carts ARE more
> expansive, as you say, however, Nintendo charged HUGE premiums for having the
> pleasure of getting games on a Ninty branded console. The reason being Ninty
> assummed that the N64 would be a huge success, and that people would flock to
> them. The company even said that only Ninty's own games would be sold on the
> console at first, with more coming out later... how arrogant is that for
> you!
It was the attractivity of the Playstation if it wasn't around then Nintendo would of been damn right. At least they've got it sorted now and optical discs are mini DVD's only used for the Gamecube's format. Therefore harder to copy.
"As for developers thats
> the point Nintendo have tonnes more, the Gamecube is cheaper, the games will be
> cheaper, the game catalogue will be 10 time bigger than the N64 probably even
> bigger than the PS1 with most major third parties signing with
> Nintendo."
Errrr.... a MAJORITY signed to Ninty... simply not true at
> all! Most are going with the PS2 simply because it already has a huge userbase,
> and looks likely to continue enlarging this all the time... thus this is the
> most safe market. Where on Earth did you hear this???!??!?
I am referring to Gamecube and they are 3rd party so im meaning both systems, Namco took ages to do anything on the N64 releasing 2 games only one being of any quality, on the gamecube they have 8 planned including Kolano 2, Soul Calibur2 and Rideg Racer 5. Capcom have Mickey Mouse and Resident Evil Gamecube exclusive with many others still announced, infogrammes have 20 titles in the works, THq have also 20 titles in the works, Acclaim have 15, Sega have 22, EA have 12, They are the major third party support and theya re much much much much much much much more than the N64 had Gamecube looks to have around 60+ third party titles by the end of next year and the N64 had 1.
I never said majority i said tonnes more more developers for nintendo not more compared with Sony.
"Exactly so
> why do we care, why do Nintendo care, saying the PS2 outsells the Gamecube is
> pointless. the Game industry during the SNES era was small compared to today
> very small. the SNES was the biggest ever then came the PS1 and the game
> industry got bigger and bigger yes more people bought the PS1 but because of
> this increase in public interest, the N64 sold more than the SNES as the
> industry was larger! There was more people to buy Nintendo's goods when the
> industry grew, this means Nintendo made more money because of Sony not
> less!"
AH! But companies need more money to stay om the business these
> days too! Sega got 10 million DCs sold, and even they couldn't keep safe- even
> though the number is larger than the combined worldwide sales of every other
> Sega console! (Well, that's a guess.... but it's probably right?)
And anyway,
> more gamers on your console means more customers, means more third parties,
> means a bigger range of games! How can that be a bad thing???
Nintendo have the major third parties there is only one third party i want to develop for Gamecube who don't and thats Squaresoft and they are now Sony shared owned. The major parties are gamecube round the rest are not worth having and Nintendo are offering money to younger developers we are getting them and as for Nintendo themselves there is about 30 being worked on by shigsy alone and then there is Retro studios, left field, Rare, Silicon Knights,HAL, Camelot etc... all mega second parties.
Dronic.
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