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This thread has been linked to the game 'Star Wars Galaxies'.
Can someone clear this up for me please - do you have to pay a monthly charge to play the game online? And, is it worth getting just to play offline? It looks really good, and the premise makes my mouth water, but having to pay a monthly fee on top of getting broadband, the cost of the game, and amount of my life it will consume, it suddenly seems not worth it.
Same goes for Planetside.
Same goes for Planetside.
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Your significance to the overall picture?
BWAHAHAHAHA! You're one in half a million, you count about as much as the opinion of a 70 year old reclusive Amish carpenter on the issues facing modern AI initiatives in the drive for use in intelligent and pre-emptive home appliances.
BWAAHAHAHAHHAHAA!
BWAHAHAHAHA! You're one in half a million, you count about as much as the opinion of a 70 year old reclusive Amish carpenter on the issues facing modern AI initiatives in the drive for use in intelligent and pre-emptive home appliances.
BWAAHAHAHAHHAHAA!
I am subscribed to swg and I have no quarms about subscribing to play the sense of community and your significance to the on going way is worth the money alone.
Mind you I am biased I play offline games and play 3 mmorpgs :S
Mind you I am biased I play offline games and play 3 mmorpgs :S
All I know is, it will cost me over £100 extra a year to PLAY A GAME. Think what useful things you could do with that money.
Bane wrote:
> Then surely the onus is on the developers to find more efficient means
> of hosting the games, rather than expecting joe consumer to pay
> £00's every year to play online.
That's a ridiculous comment. Lots of things are expensive, because that's what they cost. The problem with the internet is everyone assumes bandwidth is free, and continually evolving content just materializes out of thin air.
If you think it costs too much, don't pay it. What's laughable is your total lack of knowledge on the subject then getting preachy about people providing sources and making unbacked up comments.
> Then surely the onus is on the developers to find more efficient means
> of hosting the games, rather than expecting joe consumer to pay
> £00's every year to play online.
That's a ridiculous comment. Lots of things are expensive, because that's what they cost. The problem with the internet is everyone assumes bandwidth is free, and continually evolving content just materializes out of thin air.
If you think it costs too much, don't pay it. What's laughable is your total lack of knowledge on the subject then getting preachy about people providing sources and making unbacked up comments.
Bane wrote:
> As I said before, I believe it is up to the developers to find more
> efficient ways to provide this service.
>
I suspect you'll be waiting a long time. :)
To be fair, the net code in games is probably one of the few areas that gets alot of optimisation even after products are finished. But I suppose whatever advances are made in efficiency are going to be outweighed by the rapid uptake of broadband and extra consumer bandwidth to play with.
> But for the record, I expect that the margin LucasArts can expect to
> attain at that rate with an assumed 500,000 user base would be close
> to 60%. Which is high, for anyone not used to reading margins.
Remembered this
http://pw1.netcom.com/~sirbruce/Subscriptions.html
Anyway, I don't think we're that far apart on what we think the margins are. Unless the margins are at least 25%, I doubt most companies would consider MMORPGs a worthwhile risk.
> As I said before, I believe it is up to the developers to find more
> efficient ways to provide this service.
>
I suspect you'll be waiting a long time. :)
To be fair, the net code in games is probably one of the few areas that gets alot of optimisation even after products are finished. But I suppose whatever advances are made in efficiency are going to be outweighed by the rapid uptake of broadband and extra consumer bandwidth to play with.
> But for the record, I expect that the margin LucasArts can expect to
> attain at that rate with an assumed 500,000 user base would be close
> to 60%. Which is high, for anyone not used to reading margins.
Remembered this
http://pw1.netcom.com/~sirbruce/Subscriptions.html
Anyway, I don't think we're that far apart on what we think the margins are. Unless the margins are at least 25%, I doubt most companies would consider MMORPGs a worthwhile risk.
Hmm, well I read that forum post, but I didn'tsee anything that would require nearly that sort of sum. I work for a company that is completely overhauling it's business to provide for more than 15 million customers, with support costs not much higher than what a game is costing to host a fraction of that.
As I said before, I believe it is up to the developers to find more efficient ways to provide this service.
But for the record, I expect that the margin LucasArts can expect to attain at that rate with an assumed 500,000 user base would be close to 60%. Which is high, for anyone not used to reading margins.
As I said before, I believe it is up to the developers to find more efficient ways to provide this service.
But for the record, I expect that the margin LucasArts can expect to attain at that rate with an assumed 500,000 user base would be close to 60%. Which is high, for anyone not used to reading margins.
Bane wrote:
> Now, back up your claims regarding the cost to serve the paying
> customers, and also show me the false claims I've made regarding the
> business model employed by LucasArts and we'll bring this discussion
> to a close.
Ok to be fair, you never directly said that you disbelieved they cost so much to run. But I think it was a fair assumption given the questioning nature of your posts. :)
I freely admit there is no way I can back my claim by just providing links especially ones you'd consider trustworthy. Obviously companies like level3 (they provide the infrastructure for Everquest) don't exactly publish pricelists on their website. You can try looking at the financial reports of some companies lile ncsoft (they run the biggest MMORPG in the world) too, you can make some guesses based upon the figures they publish but again, its hardly concete evidence.
http://www.swgalaxies.net/extras/monthlyfee.html
Of course its a biased source, I still think it gives a fairly good summary of whats involved. I really haven't dug that deeply on the internet, I've no doubt you could find some case studies on some of the major infrastructure provider sites that would give you better ideas on figures.
Personally, I used to work for an ISP, I've seen first hand how much these things cost to set up/run too, but that of course is with much smaller projects. When you have to handle so many concurrent users, costs tend to quite excessive.
At the end of the day, its just my opinion, do with it as you will. I won't be offended if you dismiss it. :)
> Now, back up your claims regarding the cost to serve the paying
> customers, and also show me the false claims I've made regarding the
> business model employed by LucasArts and we'll bring this discussion
> to a close.
Ok to be fair, you never directly said that you disbelieved they cost so much to run. But I think it was a fair assumption given the questioning nature of your posts. :)
I freely admit there is no way I can back my claim by just providing links especially ones you'd consider trustworthy. Obviously companies like level3 (they provide the infrastructure for Everquest) don't exactly publish pricelists on their website. You can try looking at the financial reports of some companies lile ncsoft (they run the biggest MMORPG in the world) too, you can make some guesses based upon the figures they publish but again, its hardly concete evidence.
http://www.swgalaxies.net/extras/monthlyfee.html
Of course its a biased source, I still think it gives a fairly good summary of whats involved. I really haven't dug that deeply on the internet, I've no doubt you could find some case studies on some of the major infrastructure provider sites that would give you better ideas on figures.
Personally, I used to work for an ISP, I've seen first hand how much these things cost to set up/run too, but that of course is with much smaller projects. When you have to handle so many concurrent users, costs tend to quite excessive.
At the end of the day, its just my opinion, do with it as you will. I won't be offended if you dismiss it. :)
What unbacked claims have I made? I have stated only fact, and askde YOU to explain the cost side of running the game. Accusing me of your own inability to produce the goods comes across as a combination of arrogance and stupidity.
Now, back up your claims regarding the cost to serve the paying customers, and also show me the false claims I've made regarding the business model employed by LucasArts and we'll bring this discussion to a close.
Now, back up your claims regarding the cost to serve the paying customers, and also show me the false claims I've made regarding the business model employed by LucasArts and we'll bring this discussion to a close.
Bane wrote:
> So break it down for me, rather than making unbacked claims.
>
> Detail for me how it gets spent and show me a trustworthy link
> backing up your calculations, otherwise I'll just have to dismiss
> your argument as you have nothing to back it up with.
>
> I have facts on my side:
>
> Subscription of $14.99 per month fact
> Users for many such games are in excess of 1/2 a million FACT
> That makes $90million a year FACT
Yes those are your facts. But you lack any facts detailing how much you think it does cost to run such a game. So from my point of view you are also making unbacked claims.
> So break it down for me, rather than making unbacked claims.
>
> Detail for me how it gets spent and show me a trustworthy link
> backing up your calculations, otherwise I'll just have to dismiss
> your argument as you have nothing to back it up with.
>
> I have facts on my side:
>
> Subscription of $14.99 per month fact
> Users for many such games are in excess of 1/2 a million FACT
> That makes $90million a year FACT
Yes those are your facts. But you lack any facts detailing how much you think it does cost to run such a game. So from my point of view you are also making unbacked claims.
So break it down for me, rather than making unbacked claims.
Detail for me how it gets spent and show me a trustworthy link backing up your calculations, otherwise I'll just have to dismiss your argument as you have nothing to back it up with.
I have facts on my side:
Subscription of $14.99 per month fact
Users for many such games are in excess of 1/2 a million FACT
That makes $90million a year FACT
Detail for me how it gets spent and show me a trustworthy link backing up your calculations, otherwise I'll just have to dismiss your argument as you have nothing to back it up with.
I have facts on my side:
Subscription of $14.99 per month fact
Users for many such games are in excess of 1/2 a million FACT
That makes $90million a year FACT
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