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Remember when we all start out on the forums. We sat there and go "the future of gaming are VR machines". Yeah.... errr no. We know full well that they are just so many many many years away. Even after our life time perhaps.
But Nintendo knew the future is in trouble. Games machines are forever technically going forward. But not for much longer. Games are becoming more photo-realistic, even today's X-box, PS2 and Gamecube are possibly good enough. But the PS3, Xenon and N5 truly will be the final nail in console progressions coffin. So what next?
Well although consoles will struggle to go forward, that isn't strictly the case for handheld gaming.
That's when Sony went, "s**t, Nintendo can actually win this thing!"
You see after the N5 Nintendo can rest on the Gameboy. A franchise that can at last display as good graphics as home formats. The N-Gage and up-coming PSP prove it. With a small connection to the TV and you have a home console/handheld combo. Multiplayer will almost be totally done by online play... Gaming as we know it has changed.
So Sony have to enter the handheld market. Start to knock away some of Nintendo's monopoly. After all there is no guarentee Sony can beat Nintendo again. After all they are ready this time. But have Sony got it wrong?
The PSP is a brilliant piece of kit, MP3 player and video player combo. Genius idea. Plus the £200 price point proves this is an expensive gadget for the adults. Now tell me people, how many adults do you see with Gameboys?
According to Nintendo, with their new plan to see Gameboy to adults (with the SP), a few more than before. But Nintendo will still admitt, the Gameboy sells to children and hardcore gamers. Adults are few and far between. But Sony are different, for starters Playstation is a multi-million selling brand and all these extras are sure to tickle adult gamers fancy. A bit like Nokia, I mean with their brand name and a load of cool extras they would sure make a million selling handheld system...
Oh wait.
Well I'm sure with CD lasers and in built memory to store game data and MP3 abilities will not damage battery life at all. Well maybe, not that it matters I mean battery life doesn't affect the success of a handheld console at all. Just ask SEGA. Oh wait. Well that doesn't matter, it looks so cool with top graphics. They'll get a head start over Nintendo for sure, I mean it's not as if Nintendo plan to launch a handheld system just before the PSP. Oh wait. Well come on, Nintendo haven't learnt anything, I mean the SNES was just as popular as the GAmeboy franchise. Oh wait.
Yes from my standpoint I'm supposed to see it like this. But I'm also a casual consumer, despite the PSP looking hotter than Elisha Cutherbert I can't see a flock of eager people to buy this £200 handheld system. Not even I'd go for it, It's like those PALM computer thingy's, damn they are cool... but there is no way I'd ever get one.
Nintendo are not as stupid as they look. As the Gameboy starts to flag they buy into Pokemon and release a colour edition. Moments before Pokemon started to slide the GBA was launched. As Children became the main consumer of the product Nintendo released an adult edition. The SP. More expensive but damn cooler. Come the PSP launch the SP will suffer a long overdue but very good price cut. The PSP will be facing off against the words most popular console, both the adult SP and the normal childrens edition... at a fraction of the PSP's price.
Not to mention the fact that Nintendo are also getting a head start over the PSP with their own new fangled hand held device the DS. The DS could fail, but the idea could be cool enough to win over gamers hearts.
Sony are not going to walk over Nintendo this time. Nintendo are making sure of it. With a war going on between the DS and PSP for advertisement space you know the GBA will quietly move on by as the biggest selling system still. You just know, like Atari, like SEGA, Like Nokia... Sony could well be the next victim to the handheld massacure. Sure unlike those 3 Sony are a bigger threat. But, Nintendo are actually putting together a defence system this time... they've never done that before.
If the PSP falls will that be the end of the fear that Nintendo will falter? Yes. Nintendo will continue with their handheld dominance, and when and if they are finally forced out of the home console market... the power between the 2 divisions will be so minute... none of us will care.
Dringo - fanboy till the end.
But Nintendo knew the future is in trouble. Games machines are forever technically going forward. But not for much longer. Games are becoming more photo-realistic, even today's X-box, PS2 and Gamecube are possibly good enough. But the PS3, Xenon and N5 truly will be the final nail in console progressions coffin. So what next?
Well although consoles will struggle to go forward, that isn't strictly the case for handheld gaming.
That's when Sony went, "s**t, Nintendo can actually win this thing!"
You see after the N5 Nintendo can rest on the Gameboy. A franchise that can at last display as good graphics as home formats. The N-Gage and up-coming PSP prove it. With a small connection to the TV and you have a home console/handheld combo. Multiplayer will almost be totally done by online play... Gaming as we know it has changed.
So Sony have to enter the handheld market. Start to knock away some of Nintendo's monopoly. After all there is no guarentee Sony can beat Nintendo again. After all they are ready this time. But have Sony got it wrong?
The PSP is a brilliant piece of kit, MP3 player and video player combo. Genius idea. Plus the £200 price point proves this is an expensive gadget for the adults. Now tell me people, how many adults do you see with Gameboys?
According to Nintendo, with their new plan to see Gameboy to adults (with the SP), a few more than before. But Nintendo will still admitt, the Gameboy sells to children and hardcore gamers. Adults are few and far between. But Sony are different, for starters Playstation is a multi-million selling brand and all these extras are sure to tickle adult gamers fancy. A bit like Nokia, I mean with their brand name and a load of cool extras they would sure make a million selling handheld system...
Oh wait.
Well I'm sure with CD lasers and in built memory to store game data and MP3 abilities will not damage battery life at all. Well maybe, not that it matters I mean battery life doesn't affect the success of a handheld console at all. Just ask SEGA. Oh wait. Well that doesn't matter, it looks so cool with top graphics. They'll get a head start over Nintendo for sure, I mean it's not as if Nintendo plan to launch a handheld system just before the PSP. Oh wait. Well come on, Nintendo haven't learnt anything, I mean the SNES was just as popular as the GAmeboy franchise. Oh wait.
Yes from my standpoint I'm supposed to see it like this. But I'm also a casual consumer, despite the PSP looking hotter than Elisha Cutherbert I can't see a flock of eager people to buy this £200 handheld system. Not even I'd go for it, It's like those PALM computer thingy's, damn they are cool... but there is no way I'd ever get one.
Nintendo are not as stupid as they look. As the Gameboy starts to flag they buy into Pokemon and release a colour edition. Moments before Pokemon started to slide the GBA was launched. As Children became the main consumer of the product Nintendo released an adult edition. The SP. More expensive but damn cooler. Come the PSP launch the SP will suffer a long overdue but very good price cut. The PSP will be facing off against the words most popular console, both the adult SP and the normal childrens edition... at a fraction of the PSP's price.
Not to mention the fact that Nintendo are also getting a head start over the PSP with their own new fangled hand held device the DS. The DS could fail, but the idea could be cool enough to win over gamers hearts.
Sony are not going to walk over Nintendo this time. Nintendo are making sure of it. With a war going on between the DS and PSP for advertisement space you know the GBA will quietly move on by as the biggest selling system still. You just know, like Atari, like SEGA, Like Nokia... Sony could well be the next victim to the handheld massacure. Sure unlike those 3 Sony are a bigger threat. But, Nintendo are actually putting together a defence system this time... they've never done that before.
If the PSP falls will that be the end of the fear that Nintendo will falter? Yes. Nintendo will continue with their handheld dominance, and when and if they are finally forced out of the home console market... the power between the 2 divisions will be so minute... none of us will care.
Dringo - fanboy till the end.
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Yes, I was just saying I'd love to see Halo appear on the GBA :-D
The PS2 pad certainly isn't the msot confortable, it doesn't take research to prove that. The only problems I've had with the XBox and Cube pas are the Z and B/W buttons. Everythign else is close to perfection. The shoulder buttons are much better and don't break easily, analogue control is easily better on bot Cube and XBox. Just because a controller's symetrical, it doesn't make it any good. I much prefer the lsight difference in control over camera and character (with the C-Stick), but trying to use the analogue sticks on the PS2 is painful, I usually resort to the D-Pad, which isn't much good for 3D games.
The PS2 pad was a top pad last generation.
Yet still Sony insist on keeping the four buttons similar in size, deflecting the main button for shooters etc...
Sony also insist that it's a good idea to put the analogue sticks in the middle of the pad. This isn't the 32 bit generation anymore, Analogue sticks are the main form of movement so should be near the thumb ala Gamecube and X-box.
It is a really naff pad, it is so out of date and Sony need to change it for the PS3. And not just add wireless to compete with Nintendo.
Yet still Sony insist on keeping the four buttons similar in size, deflecting the main button for shooters etc...
Sony also insist that it's a good idea to put the analogue sticks in the middle of the pad. This isn't the 32 bit generation anymore, Analogue sticks are the main form of movement so should be near the thumb ala Gamecube and X-box.
It is a really naff pad, it is so out of date and Sony need to change it for the PS3. And not just add wireless to compete with Nintendo.
Oh and the pad being symmetrical is actually a negative point as it doesn't favour the majority's hands.
Dringo wrote:
> Oh got God's Sake Bonus that is a sign of fanboyism there.
You don't have a clue what you are talking about :D
> The fact that 1 in 3 PS2's break down in JApan within a year and that
> nearly every developer moan about the PS2 being hard to develop for
> proves it is a shoddy machine.
No, it proves that Sony was expecting too much from developers to be able to expect them to write very low level game renderers. If you want to get the most out of the PS2, you need to write graphics routines in assembly specific for the PS2. Making it hard to write games for, but not a badly designed piece of hardware. I agree that some companies would like things to be easier, and some most definately wouldn't. Metal Gear Solid 2 was written at 60fps on the PS2 and the post of the game on the Xbox has noticable slow-down where the Xbox cannot match what the guys at konami managed on the PS2 hardware in assembly.
Like it or not, the PS2 is not badly designed, it just doesn't help people who want to knock out games without having to write complex code.
> The thing about the PSP is that Sony are not attacking the home
> console market... but they are attacking the handheld market. It's
> like Sony going into washing machines, I put money on Hotpoint.
Well done, Soy are releasing a handheld console to target the handheld market, you deserve a bone for figuring that out :D
> The handheld market is for far younger people, adults do not find it
> cool to play games outside of their home. Not even me, a hardcore
> gamer, with 2 GBA's, would ever take either of them out in to the
> street. Those who want to look hip would opt for an IPod, listening
> to music is cool. But in a society dominated by sex you are not going
> to woo the opposite sex by playing Final Fantasy on the PSP.
Did I not say it would be targetted at teenagers who would get parents to buy it for christmas?
The same as the PS2 which was released just before christmas with limited supplies, directly engineered to manipulate the market. I don't like that, but it is good marketting strategy.
> Which brings me onto my next point. Square, Konami, Namco and EVERY
> OTHER developer supports the GBA as thoroughly as the PS2. Square
> plan to release tonnes of games, MGS appears on the Gameboy too as
> does Tekken...
Very true, I like the GBA, in fact I love the GBA, games on it are so much fun, and I don't really want to see the handheld market move to 3D, I like being able to play old style 2d games on handhelds, so long live the plastic GBA :D
> And the GBA also has Microsoft Games Studio's on board, which of
> course include the masterful Rare Ware.
Look at the FOG Prime to see what I like about Microsoft's XNA.
> The N64 had a lack of third party support, it was released late in
> the day and costs a bomb.
The N64 was a mini scale PS2 and an upscale PSX. The N64 has a MIPS 4000 series CPU, the PS2 has a 5000 series and the PSX had a 3000 series.
The 4000 series MIPS CPU had dual vector units the same as the PS2 has now. Developers didn't like the fact that to get the best from the system they had to program graphics routines in assembly, it wasn't badly designed, just hard to write for. I'm sure I've written that somewhere before :D
> This is not the case this time. Sony are selling the Playstation
> brand to a different type of gaming market, and I do not think it
> will work.
Fair enough, that's all you had to say in the first place :D
> Oh got God's Sake Bonus that is a sign of fanboyism there.
You don't have a clue what you are talking about :D
> The fact that 1 in 3 PS2's break down in JApan within a year and that
> nearly every developer moan about the PS2 being hard to develop for
> proves it is a shoddy machine.
No, it proves that Sony was expecting too much from developers to be able to expect them to write very low level game renderers. If you want to get the most out of the PS2, you need to write graphics routines in assembly specific for the PS2. Making it hard to write games for, but not a badly designed piece of hardware. I agree that some companies would like things to be easier, and some most definately wouldn't. Metal Gear Solid 2 was written at 60fps on the PS2 and the post of the game on the Xbox has noticable slow-down where the Xbox cannot match what the guys at konami managed on the PS2 hardware in assembly.
Like it or not, the PS2 is not badly designed, it just doesn't help people who want to knock out games without having to write complex code.
> The thing about the PSP is that Sony are not attacking the home
> console market... but they are attacking the handheld market. It's
> like Sony going into washing machines, I put money on Hotpoint.
Well done, Soy are releasing a handheld console to target the handheld market, you deserve a bone for figuring that out :D
> The handheld market is for far younger people, adults do not find it
> cool to play games outside of their home. Not even me, a hardcore
> gamer, with 2 GBA's, would ever take either of them out in to the
> street. Those who want to look hip would opt for an IPod, listening
> to music is cool. But in a society dominated by sex you are not going
> to woo the opposite sex by playing Final Fantasy on the PSP.
Did I not say it would be targetted at teenagers who would get parents to buy it for christmas?
The same as the PS2 which was released just before christmas with limited supplies, directly engineered to manipulate the market. I don't like that, but it is good marketting strategy.
> Which brings me onto my next point. Square, Konami, Namco and EVERY
> OTHER developer supports the GBA as thoroughly as the PS2. Square
> plan to release tonnes of games, MGS appears on the Gameboy too as
> does Tekken...
Very true, I like the GBA, in fact I love the GBA, games on it are so much fun, and I don't really want to see the handheld market move to 3D, I like being able to play old style 2d games on handhelds, so long live the plastic GBA :D
> And the GBA also has Microsoft Games Studio's on board, which of
> course include the masterful Rare Ware.
Look at the FOG Prime to see what I like about Microsoft's XNA.
> The N64 had a lack of third party support, it was released late in
> the day and costs a bomb.
The N64 was a mini scale PS2 and an upscale PSX. The N64 has a MIPS 4000 series CPU, the PS2 has a 5000 series and the PSX had a 3000 series.
The 4000 series MIPS CPU had dual vector units the same as the PS2 has now. Developers didn't like the fact that to get the best from the system they had to program graphics routines in assembly, it wasn't badly designed, just hard to write for. I'm sure I've written that somewhere before :D
> This is not the case this time. Sony are selling the Playstation
> brand to a different type of gaming market, and I do not think it
> will work.
Fair enough, that's all you had to say in the first place :D
Bonus wrote:
> Like it or not, the PS2 is not badly designed, it just doesn't help
> people who want to knock out games without having to write complex
> code.
Listen to yourself, man! Think about what you're saying.
If it requires very complex and specific code, that most developers are not capable of, then it IS badly designed.
> Like it or not, the PS2 is not badly designed, it just doesn't help
> people who want to knock out games without having to write complex
> code.
Listen to yourself, man! Think about what you're saying.
If it requires very complex and specific code, that most developers are not capable of, then it IS badly designed.
No, the hardware is not badly designed, the development environment is. Massive difference.
By saying the Ps2 is badly designed, you are saying the N64 was badly designed as the have exactly the same setup. Just the PS2 has a 128bit faster verion of the N64 CPU. Think of it as the PSX being a Pentium processor, the N64 being a PII and the PS2 being a P3.
If the PS2 is a bad design, then so was the N64.
I do not think the N64 was a bad design.
The way things turned out, Nintendo woul dhave been the most expeirience and best technical developer on the PS2 because they would only have needed to upgrade their game engines to the new plotform, not write them again from scratch.
By saying the Ps2 is badly designed, you are saying the N64 was badly designed as the have exactly the same setup. Just the PS2 has a 128bit faster verion of the N64 CPU. Think of it as the PSX being a Pentium processor, the N64 being a PII and the PS2 being a P3.
If the PS2 is a bad design, then so was the N64.
I do not think the N64 was a bad design.
The way things turned out, Nintendo woul dhave been the most expeirience and best technical developer on the PS2 because they would only have needed to upgrade their game engines to the new plotform, not write them again from scratch.
Surely the hardware determines the development environment, and so a difficult development is a direct result of poor a poor hardware set up.
No.
You obviously don't have a clue about how computer games are made, and why it makes things easier to have some sort of hardware API to help you. The PS2 doesn't have anything like DirectX on their system to help people like they do on the Xbox. That's what makes the development environment more difficult.
The Xbox hardware wouldn't be any different if Directx wasn't available, it just means it would be harder to program for because the developers would need to write their own DirectX before being able to make a game, or write everything that DirectX does on the Xbox themselves.
Like I said, the PS2 hardware is not badly designed, it's just difficult to make games for because it is well designed for allowing people interested in the hardware to do anything they like with it.
People at the cutting edge of games development and computer graphics rendering are using the PS2 Linux kits for exactly that reason, you can research your own way of doing things.
Now that the PS2 has been going for a few years, a low standard of capabilities has been reached, and quite a lot of games just use these basic features and don't push the hardware. These companies are just interested in making games and not really interested in pushing boundaries.
This is what you find on the Xbox and Gamecube right from launch as they are based on PCs. However the GC and Xbox have shaders which allow companies to try out some of what can be done on the PS2, and games such as Halo show that some companies are willing to push the boundaries of what is considered achievable.
I have never seen a game on Gamecube which made me think it was cool in terms of trying something new. This doesn't make the gamecube games any worse, it just makes the platform less interesting, and I think that is coming to show on the sales of games.
You obviously don't have a clue about how computer games are made, and why it makes things easier to have some sort of hardware API to help you. The PS2 doesn't have anything like DirectX on their system to help people like they do on the Xbox. That's what makes the development environment more difficult.
The Xbox hardware wouldn't be any different if Directx wasn't available, it just means it would be harder to program for because the developers would need to write their own DirectX before being able to make a game, or write everything that DirectX does on the Xbox themselves.
Like I said, the PS2 hardware is not badly designed, it's just difficult to make games for because it is well designed for allowing people interested in the hardware to do anything they like with it.
People at the cutting edge of games development and computer graphics rendering are using the PS2 Linux kits for exactly that reason, you can research your own way of doing things.
Now that the PS2 has been going for a few years, a low standard of capabilities has been reached, and quite a lot of games just use these basic features and don't push the hardware. These companies are just interested in making games and not really interested in pushing boundaries.
This is what you find on the Xbox and Gamecube right from launch as they are based on PCs. However the GC and Xbox have shaders which allow companies to try out some of what can be done on the PS2, and games such as Halo show that some companies are willing to push the boundaries of what is considered achievable.
I have never seen a game on Gamecube which made me think it was cool in terms of trying something new. This doesn't make the gamecube games any worse, it just makes the platform less interesting, and I think that is coming to show on the sales of games.
Bonus wrote:
>
>
> The handheld market is for far younger people, adults do not find it
> cool to play games outside of their home. Not even me, a hardcore
> gamer, with 2 GBA's, would ever take either of them out in to the
> street. Those who want to look hip would opt for an IPod, listening
> to music is cool. But in a society dominated by sex you are not
> going
> to woo the opposite sex by playing Final Fantasy on the PSP.
>
> Did I not say it would be targetted at teenagers who would get
> parents to buy it for christmas?
A: It is only released in time for Christmas in Japan.
B:Teenagers wouldn't be seen dead with a handheld system either.
C: Does you parents spend £200 on a handheld system for christmas? Mine wouldn't.
>
> Very true, I like the GBA, in fact I love the GBA, games on it are so
> much fun, and I don't really want to see the handheld market move to
> 3D, I like being able to play old style 2d games on handhelds, so
> long live the plastic GBA :D
And indeed it will live long.
>
>
> The handheld market is for far younger people, adults do not find it
> cool to play games outside of their home. Not even me, a hardcore
> gamer, with 2 GBA's, would ever take either of them out in to the
> street. Those who want to look hip would opt for an IPod, listening
> to music is cool. But in a society dominated by sex you are not
> going
> to woo the opposite sex by playing Final Fantasy on the PSP.
>
> Did I not say it would be targetted at teenagers who would get
> parents to buy it for christmas?
A: It is only released in time for Christmas in Japan.
B:Teenagers wouldn't be seen dead with a handheld system either.
C: Does you parents spend £200 on a handheld system for christmas? Mine wouldn't.
>
> Very true, I like the GBA, in fact I love the GBA, games on it are so
> much fun, and I don't really want to see the handheld market move to
> 3D, I like being able to play old style 2d games on handhelds, so
> long live the plastic GBA :D
And indeed it will live long.
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