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Remember when we all start out on the forums. We sat there and go "the future of gaming are VR machines". Yeah.... errr no. We know full well that they are just so many many many years away. Even after our life time perhaps.
But Nintendo knew the future is in trouble. Games machines are forever technically going forward. But not for much longer. Games are becoming more photo-realistic, even today's X-box, PS2 and Gamecube are possibly good enough. But the PS3, Xenon and N5 truly will be the final nail in console progressions coffin. So what next?
Well although consoles will struggle to go forward, that isn't strictly the case for handheld gaming.
That's when Sony went, "s**t, Nintendo can actually win this thing!"
You see after the N5 Nintendo can rest on the Gameboy. A franchise that can at last display as good graphics as home formats. The N-Gage and up-coming PSP prove it. With a small connection to the TV and you have a home console/handheld combo. Multiplayer will almost be totally done by online play... Gaming as we know it has changed.
So Sony have to enter the handheld market. Start to knock away some of Nintendo's monopoly. After all there is no guarentee Sony can beat Nintendo again. After all they are ready this time. But have Sony got it wrong?
The PSP is a brilliant piece of kit, MP3 player and video player combo. Genius idea. Plus the £200 price point proves this is an expensive gadget for the adults. Now tell me people, how many adults do you see with Gameboys?
According to Nintendo, with their new plan to see Gameboy to adults (with the SP), a few more than before. But Nintendo will still admitt, the Gameboy sells to children and hardcore gamers. Adults are few and far between. But Sony are different, for starters Playstation is a multi-million selling brand and all these extras are sure to tickle adult gamers fancy. A bit like Nokia, I mean with their brand name and a load of cool extras they would sure make a million selling handheld system...
Oh wait.
Well I'm sure with CD lasers and in built memory to store game data and MP3 abilities will not damage battery life at all. Well maybe, not that it matters I mean battery life doesn't affect the success of a handheld console at all. Just ask SEGA. Oh wait. Well that doesn't matter, it looks so cool with top graphics. They'll get a head start over Nintendo for sure, I mean it's not as if Nintendo plan to launch a handheld system just before the PSP. Oh wait. Well come on, Nintendo haven't learnt anything, I mean the SNES was just as popular as the GAmeboy franchise. Oh wait.
Yes from my standpoint I'm supposed to see it like this. But I'm also a casual consumer, despite the PSP looking hotter than Elisha Cutherbert I can't see a flock of eager people to buy this £200 handheld system. Not even I'd go for it, It's like those PALM computer thingy's, damn they are cool... but there is no way I'd ever get one.
Nintendo are not as stupid as they look. As the Gameboy starts to flag they buy into Pokemon and release a colour edition. Moments before Pokemon started to slide the GBA was launched. As Children became the main consumer of the product Nintendo released an adult edition. The SP. More expensive but damn cooler. Come the PSP launch the SP will suffer a long overdue but very good price cut. The PSP will be facing off against the words most popular console, both the adult SP and the normal childrens edition... at a fraction of the PSP's price.
Not to mention the fact that Nintendo are also getting a head start over the PSP with their own new fangled hand held device the DS. The DS could fail, but the idea could be cool enough to win over gamers hearts.
Sony are not going to walk over Nintendo this time. Nintendo are making sure of it. With a war going on between the DS and PSP for advertisement space you know the GBA will quietly move on by as the biggest selling system still. You just know, like Atari, like SEGA, Like Nokia... Sony could well be the next victim to the handheld massacure. Sure unlike those 3 Sony are a bigger threat. But, Nintendo are actually putting together a defence system this time... they've never done that before.
If the PSP falls will that be the end of the fear that Nintendo will falter? Yes. Nintendo will continue with their handheld dominance, and when and if they are finally forced out of the home console market... the power between the 2 divisions will be so minute... none of us will care.
Dringo - fanboy till the end.
But Nintendo knew the future is in trouble. Games machines are forever technically going forward. But not for much longer. Games are becoming more photo-realistic, even today's X-box, PS2 and Gamecube are possibly good enough. But the PS3, Xenon and N5 truly will be the final nail in console progressions coffin. So what next?
Well although consoles will struggle to go forward, that isn't strictly the case for handheld gaming.
That's when Sony went, "s**t, Nintendo can actually win this thing!"
You see after the N5 Nintendo can rest on the Gameboy. A franchise that can at last display as good graphics as home formats. The N-Gage and up-coming PSP prove it. With a small connection to the TV and you have a home console/handheld combo. Multiplayer will almost be totally done by online play... Gaming as we know it has changed.
So Sony have to enter the handheld market. Start to knock away some of Nintendo's monopoly. After all there is no guarentee Sony can beat Nintendo again. After all they are ready this time. But have Sony got it wrong?
The PSP is a brilliant piece of kit, MP3 player and video player combo. Genius idea. Plus the £200 price point proves this is an expensive gadget for the adults. Now tell me people, how many adults do you see with Gameboys?
According to Nintendo, with their new plan to see Gameboy to adults (with the SP), a few more than before. But Nintendo will still admitt, the Gameboy sells to children and hardcore gamers. Adults are few and far between. But Sony are different, for starters Playstation is a multi-million selling brand and all these extras are sure to tickle adult gamers fancy. A bit like Nokia, I mean with their brand name and a load of cool extras they would sure make a million selling handheld system...
Oh wait.
Well I'm sure with CD lasers and in built memory to store game data and MP3 abilities will not damage battery life at all. Well maybe, not that it matters I mean battery life doesn't affect the success of a handheld console at all. Just ask SEGA. Oh wait. Well that doesn't matter, it looks so cool with top graphics. They'll get a head start over Nintendo for sure, I mean it's not as if Nintendo plan to launch a handheld system just before the PSP. Oh wait. Well come on, Nintendo haven't learnt anything, I mean the SNES was just as popular as the GAmeboy franchise. Oh wait.
Yes from my standpoint I'm supposed to see it like this. But I'm also a casual consumer, despite the PSP looking hotter than Elisha Cutherbert I can't see a flock of eager people to buy this £200 handheld system. Not even I'd go for it, It's like those PALM computer thingy's, damn they are cool... but there is no way I'd ever get one.
Nintendo are not as stupid as they look. As the Gameboy starts to flag they buy into Pokemon and release a colour edition. Moments before Pokemon started to slide the GBA was launched. As Children became the main consumer of the product Nintendo released an adult edition. The SP. More expensive but damn cooler. Come the PSP launch the SP will suffer a long overdue but very good price cut. The PSP will be facing off against the words most popular console, both the adult SP and the normal childrens edition... at a fraction of the PSP's price.
Not to mention the fact that Nintendo are also getting a head start over the PSP with their own new fangled hand held device the DS. The DS could fail, but the idea could be cool enough to win over gamers hearts.
Sony are not going to walk over Nintendo this time. Nintendo are making sure of it. With a war going on between the DS and PSP for advertisement space you know the GBA will quietly move on by as the biggest selling system still. You just know, like Atari, like SEGA, Like Nokia... Sony could well be the next victim to the handheld massacure. Sure unlike those 3 Sony are a bigger threat. But, Nintendo are actually putting together a defence system this time... they've never done that before.
If the PSP falls will that be the end of the fear that Nintendo will falter? Yes. Nintendo will continue with their handheld dominance, and when and if they are finally forced out of the home console market... the power between the 2 divisions will be so minute... none of us will care.
Dringo - fanboy till the end.
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Bonus wrote:
> No, the hardware is not badly designed, the development environment
> is. Massive difference.
>
>
> By saying the Ps2 is badly designed, you are saying the N64 was badly
> designed as the have exactly the same setup. Just the PS2 has a
> 128bit faster verion of the N64 CPU. Think of it as the PSX being a
> Pentium processor, the N64 being a PII and the PS2 being a P3.
>
> If the PS2 is a bad design, then so was the N64.
>
> I do not think the N64 was a bad design.
>
> The way things turned out, Nintendo woul dhave been the most
> expeirience and best technical developer on the PS2 because they
> would only have needed to upgrade their game engines to the new
> plotform, not write them again from scratch.
Nintendo are a different breed to sony. Sony need to create a system that pleases the consumer (with DVD playback etc...) and the developer as Sony don't (bar one or two small teams) make their own games... but get third parties too.
It doesn't matter that the N64 was a b!tch to make games for because Nintendo and their second parties were the only real developers for it. Rare, Left Field, NTSC, CAmelot, Acclaim, Nintendo themselves, HAL etc... etc... are all Nintendo really had to develop games for the N64 and they had their own specialist tools and their own specialist ways of making games for their own system.
If the N64 was a Playstation and wanted third parties to be their main supplier of software then yes it was badly designed.
Fact is cartiridges, bulky buttons, 3 prongs etc... were for the consumer's use. It doesn't matter how hard the N64 was to develop for, because it was only really Nintendo doing the developing and they knew how to do it.
> No, the hardware is not badly designed, the development environment
> is. Massive difference.
>
>
> By saying the Ps2 is badly designed, you are saying the N64 was badly
> designed as the have exactly the same setup. Just the PS2 has a
> 128bit faster verion of the N64 CPU. Think of it as the PSX being a
> Pentium processor, the N64 being a PII and the PS2 being a P3.
>
> If the PS2 is a bad design, then so was the N64.
>
> I do not think the N64 was a bad design.
>
> The way things turned out, Nintendo woul dhave been the most
> expeirience and best technical developer on the PS2 because they
> would only have needed to upgrade their game engines to the new
> plotform, not write them again from scratch.
Nintendo are a different breed to sony. Sony need to create a system that pleases the consumer (with DVD playback etc...) and the developer as Sony don't (bar one or two small teams) make their own games... but get third parties too.
It doesn't matter that the N64 was a b!tch to make games for because Nintendo and their second parties were the only real developers for it. Rare, Left Field, NTSC, CAmelot, Acclaim, Nintendo themselves, HAL etc... etc... are all Nintendo really had to develop games for the N64 and they had their own specialist tools and their own specialist ways of making games for their own system.
If the N64 was a Playstation and wanted third parties to be their main supplier of software then yes it was badly designed.
Fact is cartiridges, bulky buttons, 3 prongs etc... were for the consumer's use. It doesn't matter how hard the N64 was to develop for, because it was only really Nintendo doing the developing and they knew how to do it.
I still don't think that a console being hard to develop for makes it badly designed.
At the end of the day, if the system was so badly designed, MGS2 wouldn't have looked so good. Neither would FFX, GT4, Devil May Cry or Virtua Fighter 4. All games made by different companies.
I think being a student of computer graphics gives me a little bit of a different perspective on the whole thing than most though.
I personally find the prospect of using my linux kit on the PS2 exciting, as it is completely different environment to develop for, and will be really interesting to experiment with and get working :D
Microsoft's XNA platform is about to kick the game development industry into a higher gear anyway. Every game will have a very good base level, and the companies who are going to push boundaries will have exceptional prospects :D
Just remember that it has been no more difficult or people to develop games for the PS2 than it will have been for the guys at id to have made Doom3, or valve making Half Life 2.
Any companies complaining of the PS2 being difficult are not comapnies looking to advance the world of game technology, just simply make some money.
At the end of the day, if the system was so badly designed, MGS2 wouldn't have looked so good. Neither would FFX, GT4, Devil May Cry or Virtua Fighter 4. All games made by different companies.
I think being a student of computer graphics gives me a little bit of a different perspective on the whole thing than most though.
I personally find the prospect of using my linux kit on the PS2 exciting, as it is completely different environment to develop for, and will be really interesting to experiment with and get working :D
Microsoft's XNA platform is about to kick the game development industry into a higher gear anyway. Every game will have a very good base level, and the companies who are going to push boundaries will have exceptional prospects :D
Just remember that it has been no more difficult or people to develop games for the PS2 than it will have been for the guys at id to have made Doom3, or valve making Half Life 2.
Any companies complaining of the PS2 being difficult are not comapnies looking to advance the world of game technology, just simply make some money.
Hehe. Bonus is back. :-)
I've read through the basics and have these points to make:
On controller design:
When the Snes was the pinnacle of design, people used the D-Pad (which was placed where it was most comfortable to the left thumb) and the 4 buttons (which were placed in the most comfortable position to the left thumb).
Likewise when the PS came out, it was D-Pad and Buttons.
Then the N64 came out and the standard became analogue stick and buttons.
But not ALL games used an analogue stick, so the N64 pad gave you an extra prong for the analogue stick, so you could still use the D-pad comfortably if you so wished.
The PS2 answered by selotaping a couple of analogue sticks in, but on the side where the thumb has to stretch itself to reach to.
Also, it didn't try to keep up by making it's shape more curved to suit a hand. Everything else about it is alright, but not amazing.
The Gamecube kept the analogue and buttons favourability (although if a D-Pad is now only useful as a couple of extra buttons for options).
It also put in a second analogue stick (yes Bonus, there ARE two "true" analogue sticks), which wasn't as natural to use as the main buttons, but stick fairly nice to use otherwise.
The Z-button is a little questionable but not as bad as stretching your thumb across the pad for an entire game.
On console design:
Despite a sublime outer design, the N64 WAS a bit of a mess on the inside. Being such a biatch to work with, only Nintendo and Rare ever realised it's true potential, which suited them fine but alienated most third party support.
This ruined the N64 and Saturn in terms of marketability.
And it also means that while PS2 devellopers can work their asss off to make some very nice graphics, Gamecube and Xbox devellopers can better it with a wave of the hand. :-)
A bit of an exaduration there, but you know what I mean.
And by the by, Mr Bonus does already know all this, he's just a pedantic agitator, aren't you! :-)
Welcome back.
I've read through the basics and have these points to make:
On controller design:
When the Snes was the pinnacle of design, people used the D-Pad (which was placed where it was most comfortable to the left thumb) and the 4 buttons (which were placed in the most comfortable position to the left thumb).
Likewise when the PS came out, it was D-Pad and Buttons.
Then the N64 came out and the standard became analogue stick and buttons.
But not ALL games used an analogue stick, so the N64 pad gave you an extra prong for the analogue stick, so you could still use the D-pad comfortably if you so wished.
The PS2 answered by selotaping a couple of analogue sticks in, but on the side where the thumb has to stretch itself to reach to.
Also, it didn't try to keep up by making it's shape more curved to suit a hand. Everything else about it is alright, but not amazing.
The Gamecube kept the analogue and buttons favourability (although if a D-Pad is now only useful as a couple of extra buttons for options).
It also put in a second analogue stick (yes Bonus, there ARE two "true" analogue sticks), which wasn't as natural to use as the main buttons, but stick fairly nice to use otherwise.
The Z-button is a little questionable but not as bad as stretching your thumb across the pad for an entire game.
On console design:
Despite a sublime outer design, the N64 WAS a bit of a mess on the inside. Being such a biatch to work with, only Nintendo and Rare ever realised it's true potential, which suited them fine but alienated most third party support.
This ruined the N64 and Saturn in terms of marketability.
And it also means that while PS2 devellopers can work their asss off to make some very nice graphics, Gamecube and Xbox devellopers can better it with a wave of the hand. :-)
A bit of an exaduration there, but you know what I mean.
And by the by, Mr Bonus does already know all this, he's just a pedantic agitator, aren't you! :-)
Welcome back.
Strafio wrote:
> And by the by, Mr Bonus does already know all this, he's just a
> pedantic agitator, aren't you! :-)
Don't you just know it :-D
> And by the by, Mr Bonus does already know all this, he's just a
> pedantic agitator, aren't you! :-)
Don't you just know it :-D
Strafio wrote:
> And by the by, Mr Bonus does already know all this, he's just a
> pedantic agitator, aren't you! :-)
I was wondering when someone was going to notice that I was causing trouble. Couldn't really care less to be fair :D
Each pad suits the games which are made to be played on it :D
MGS suits the PS2 pad, as does Pro Evo.
Halo suits the Xbox pad and Zelda suits the GC pad, but no one here is willing to detach themselves from stupid corporate loyalties long enough to realise this :D
So, long may the Nintendo fanboy survive, so that I could annoy the hell out of them :D
> And by the by, Mr Bonus does already know all this, he's just a
> pedantic agitator, aren't you! :-)
I was wondering when someone was going to notice that I was causing trouble. Couldn't really care less to be fair :D
Each pad suits the games which are made to be played on it :D
MGS suits the PS2 pad, as does Pro Evo.
Halo suits the Xbox pad and Zelda suits the GC pad, but no one here is willing to detach themselves from stupid corporate loyalties long enough to realise this :D
So, long may the Nintendo fanboy survive, so that I could annoy the hell out of them :D
Nintendo fanboys annoy you really...
I mean if I didn't annoy people, why would I bother being here?
I mean if I didn't annoy people, why would I bother being here?
Bonus wrote:
> I still don't think that a console being hard to develop for makes it
> badly designed.
You try telling that to a game dev my friend. I just hope you can duck quickly.
> I still don't think that a console being hard to develop for makes it
> badly designed.
You try telling that to a game dev my friend. I just hope you can duck quickly.
Bonus wrote:
> I mean, it's a Playstation handheld which can play movies, mp3s, play
> top notch games and maybe even go online.
That's exactly the thing, though. While it no doubt will be a nifty piece of kit, with all these features included, it's definitely going to have an exceptionally high price for a "handheld".
And Sony have made statements saying they doubt they'll have it ready for Christmas 2004, which would be the prime time to gather sales. And if Sony miss it, they'll be missing out on a hell of a lot of sales as a result. And this is probably the main reason that some people are saying that it won't do very well.
Nintendo, if they stick to their schedule, will have the DS out here for Christmas, and that will help boost their sales a lot. And if people have a DS early on, this reduces the chances that they'll want to get a PSP as well. The market that these consoles are being aimed at do not have this kind of money. These handhelds are aimed at teens, and possibly younger youths: and if a decent advertisement campaign along with a decent price is given to the DS, then Sony's machine will be in trouble.
> I mean, it's a Playstation handheld which can play movies, mp3s, play
> top notch games and maybe even go online.
That's exactly the thing, though. While it no doubt will be a nifty piece of kit, with all these features included, it's definitely going to have an exceptionally high price for a "handheld".
And Sony have made statements saying they doubt they'll have it ready for Christmas 2004, which would be the prime time to gather sales. And if Sony miss it, they'll be missing out on a hell of a lot of sales as a result. And this is probably the main reason that some people are saying that it won't do very well.
Nintendo, if they stick to their schedule, will have the DS out here for Christmas, and that will help boost their sales a lot. And if people have a DS early on, this reduces the chances that they'll want to get a PSP as well. The market that these consoles are being aimed at do not have this kind of money. These handhelds are aimed at teens, and possibly younger youths: and if a decent advertisement campaign along with a decent price is given to the DS, then Sony's machine will be in trouble.
Safedisc_V3 wrote:
> Bonus wrote:
> I still don't think that a console being hard to develop for makes
> it
> badly designed.
>
> You try telling that to a game dev my friend. I just hope you can
> duck quickly.
I'm doing a games technology degree at uni. Developers don't dislike the platform as much as developers, and that's beause anyone gettin ginto anything iworth seeing on th ePS2 will almost definately finish the project a year late.
The best the PS2 has to offer is still a year away. The next big leap in PS2 games will be GT4.
> Bonus wrote:
> I still don't think that a console being hard to develop for makes
> it
> badly designed.
>
> You try telling that to a game dev my friend. I just hope you can
> duck quickly.
I'm doing a games technology degree at uni. Developers don't dislike the platform as much as developers, and that's beause anyone gettin ginto anything iworth seeing on th ePS2 will almost definately finish the project a year late.
The best the PS2 has to offer is still a year away. The next big leap in PS2 games will be GT4.
AfroJoe wrote:
>> And Sony have made statements saying they doubt they'll have it ready
> for Christmas 2004, which would be the prime time to gather sales.
Agreed, I think the PSP could gather as big a cult status as the iPod, not many people actually have one of those either mind :D
Anyway, I'm not particularly interested in the DS. All it is doing is emulating what Nintendo did with the Game and Watch series of standalone handheld games in the 80's. They had dual screens too, wouldn't be surprised if all the DS could do was games similar to those but with colour.
>> And Sony have made statements saying they doubt they'll have it ready
> for Christmas 2004, which would be the prime time to gather sales.
Agreed, I think the PSP could gather as big a cult status as the iPod, not many people actually have one of those either mind :D
Anyway, I'm not particularly interested in the DS. All it is doing is emulating what Nintendo did with the Game and Watch series of standalone handheld games in the 80's. They had dual screens too, wouldn't be surprised if all the DS could do was games similar to those but with colour.
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