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I'm aware it's a week or so sooner than the monthly "Science vs Religion" yawnfest postfrenzy we have, but this article is worth a read.
Especially if you're a stupid fundementalist
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1559743,00.html[/URL]
Especially if you're a stupid fundementalist
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1559743,00.html[/URL]
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Walrus wrote:
> RELIGION AND SCIENCE ARE COMPATIBLE
Just a point... But science aims to explain everything with rules. There's rules dictating gravity, chemical reactions, radiation, molecules, blah blah blah... It cannot (and I doubt it will) ever be able to explain everything simply because it relies on humans seeing (often incredibly complex) patterns in what happens in certain circumstances.
However, God has no rules... So how can science and religion be compatible? If religion is to be believed God can do anything... He abides by no rules, but scientifically, everything has to abide by certain rules... Scientifically there should always be an explanation as to why something happens. But religion states that no, God just can do whatever. No need to obey any rules, God just can... So... Meh. Contradictory surely?
> RELIGION AND SCIENCE ARE COMPATIBLE
Just a point... But science aims to explain everything with rules. There's rules dictating gravity, chemical reactions, radiation, molecules, blah blah blah... It cannot (and I doubt it will) ever be able to explain everything simply because it relies on humans seeing (often incredibly complex) patterns in what happens in certain circumstances.
However, God has no rules... So how can science and religion be compatible? If religion is to be believed God can do anything... He abides by no rules, but scientifically, everything has to abide by certain rules... Scientifically there should always be an explanation as to why something happens. But religion states that no, God just can do whatever. No need to obey any rules, God just can... So... Meh. Contradictory surely?
So I did, fancy that.
My basic point there was that when you're talking about a faith in general things, science can often fit in with that to explain certain key concpets pretty well (the whole 'God-issue' being neatly avoided) - but when you get into religion, and people are using the Bible as a base of fact, then science can't fit with it, because many of the specific thing mentioned are impossible to scientifically explained.
So yar.
I kinda get what you're on about with the Dead Sea ... but, nah, firstly, it only makes you slightly more boyant than usual, and it's hardly a miricle if everyone can do exactly the same thing. But then we're into the whole topic on a simple party-trick / accident / complete lie being built up and up, filtered down and down by the Bible's text-collectors and the early founders of Christianityto manipulate ... which I love so much.
My basic point there was that when you're talking about a faith in general things, science can often fit in with that to explain certain key concpets pretty well (the whole 'God-issue' being neatly avoided) - but when you get into religion, and people are using the Bible as a base of fact, then science can't fit with it, because many of the specific thing mentioned are impossible to scientifically explained.
So yar.
I kinda get what you're on about with the Dead Sea ... but, nah, firstly, it only makes you slightly more boyant than usual, and it's hardly a miricle if everyone can do exactly the same thing. But then we're into the whole topic on a simple party-trick / accident / complete lie being built up and up, filtered down and down by the Bible's text-collectors and the early founders of Christianityto manipulate ... which I love so much.
To tnc
I still feel that there is a God and there is little anyone can do make me feel otherwise.I don't see how everything could be how it is without something external and supremely powerful which explains its own existence (because God is a Neccesary being)driving it.
I believe there is something beyond death and that might seem naive to you.But I can't get my head around it going from nothing to something or from no life to life.You might think I'm believing in God due to the God of the Gaps theory in which people believe in God to explain things which aren't understood.Rainbows used to be attributed to God showing us he still loved us but now we know otherwise.
But God seems more reasonable to me then the Big Bang just happening.I believe in the Big Bang but believe God caused it.
I still feel that there is a God and there is little anyone can do make me feel otherwise.I don't see how everything could be how it is without something external and supremely powerful which explains its own existence (because God is a Neccesary being)driving it.
I believe there is something beyond death and that might seem naive to you.But I can't get my head around it going from nothing to something or from no life to life.You might think I'm believing in God due to the God of the Gaps theory in which people believe in God to explain things which aren't understood.Rainbows used to be attributed to God showing us he still loved us but now we know otherwise.
But God seems more reasonable to me then the Big Bang just happening.I believe in the Big Bang but believe God caused it.
Sibs wrote:
> However, God has no rules...
Sorry but that's tosh. He gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Mt Tsiani (as were into Religion) they are strict rules on how we should live our lives, and ones that must be obeyed if we want to go to Heaven.
We must basically lick his boots, we must be good Christians who follow his rules from birth to death in order to go to his Pearly home in the sky.
He himself obviously has some restrictions, if he made man in the image of himself then he must have some human form and characteristics. We know he must also be omnipotent and have the ability to speak. Although we can't define him we do have rules which we can apply to him.
> However, God has no rules...
Sorry but that's tosh. He gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Mt Tsiani (as were into Religion) they are strict rules on how we should live our lives, and ones that must be obeyed if we want to go to Heaven.
We must basically lick his boots, we must be good Christians who follow his rules from birth to death in order to go to his Pearly home in the sky.
He himself obviously has some restrictions, if he made man in the image of himself then he must have some human form and characteristics. We know he must also be omnipotent and have the ability to speak. Although we can't define him we do have rules which we can apply to him.
FinalFantasyFanatic wrote:
> I kinda get what you're on about with the Dead Sea ... but, nah,
> firstly, it only makes you slightly more boyant than usual, and it's
> hardly a miricle if everyone can do exactly the same thing. But then
> we're into the whole topic on a simple party-trick / accident /
> complete lie being built up and up, filtered down and down by the
> Bible's text-collectors and the early founders of Christianityto
> manipulate ... which I love so much.
I reckon he got a couple of his followers to hop in a boat and row really fast, while he tied two planks of wood to his feet and held onto a rope tied to said boat. Jesus wasn't the son of God, he was the inventor of water-skiing!
> I kinda get what you're on about with the Dead Sea ... but, nah,
> firstly, it only makes you slightly more boyant than usual, and it's
> hardly a miricle if everyone can do exactly the same thing. But then
> we're into the whole topic on a simple party-trick / accident /
> complete lie being built up and up, filtered down and down by the
> Bible's text-collectors and the early founders of Christianityto
> manipulate ... which I love so much.
I reckon he got a couple of his followers to hop in a boat and row really fast, while he tied two planks of wood to his feet and held onto a rope tied to said boat. Jesus wasn't the son of God, he was the inventor of water-skiing!
To Sibs
Some scientists are guilty of the same thing they acuse religious believers of.Some believe in the whole parallel universe thingy but they have no concrete proof yet feel that the notion of God is absurd.I fail to understand why you all find it hard to comprehend the possibilty that God created a world in which he dictated the laws of science.Science and God can both be right in the same universe.
Some scientists are guilty of the same thing they acuse religious believers of.Some believe in the whole parallel universe thingy but they have no concrete proof yet feel that the notion of God is absurd.I fail to understand why you all find it hard to comprehend the possibilty that God created a world in which he dictated the laws of science.Science and God can both be right in the same universe.
To Walrus,
Death is the same to me. I feel very anxious of death, as in, I don't simply want to die and be gone. After all, what would I be? Would I feel anything? I wouldn't want to be nothing for eternity. On the other hand I don't want to be forever living life if I can remember ones I've experienced.
It is perfectly reasonable that you are anxious of death and don't just want to become maggot-food, I do feel the same. It isn't naive to believe in life after death, but for me I just can't picture a Pearly-gated home in the sky. Living my life in the rules someone has set down for me so that I may or may not go somewhere just seems a waste.
To me the most feasible thing is rebirth. Somehow being reborn would appeal to me, the idea of continuing and not just being a dot in an endless ticker-tape of time. I would never be nothing or tired of the situation.
No-one knows about Death, perhaps the greatest unexplained medical phenomenon
Death is the same to me. I feel very anxious of death, as in, I don't simply want to die and be gone. After all, what would I be? Would I feel anything? I wouldn't want to be nothing for eternity. On the other hand I don't want to be forever living life if I can remember ones I've experienced.
It is perfectly reasonable that you are anxious of death and don't just want to become maggot-food, I do feel the same. It isn't naive to believe in life after death, but for me I just can't picture a Pearly-gated home in the sky. Living my life in the rules someone has set down for me so that I may or may not go somewhere just seems a waste.
To me the most feasible thing is rebirth. Somehow being reborn would appeal to me, the idea of continuing and not just being a dot in an endless ticker-tape of time. I would never be nothing or tired of the situation.
No-one knows about Death, perhaps the greatest unexplained medical phenomenon
tnc wrote:
> Sorry but that's tosh. He gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Mt
> Tsiani (as were into Religion) they are strict rules on how we should
> live our lives, and ones that must be obeyed if we want to go to
> Heaven.
Erm, no, I meant he has no rules he has to abide by. And I'm not meaning moral rules or whatever, scientific rules, like the fact that as a human I cannot, say, fly just using my own body or whatever...
> We must basically lick his boots, we must be good Christians who
> follow his rules from birth to death in order to go to his Pearly
> home in the sky.
Exactly why I believe that if there is a God, he's on one massive ego trip...
> He himself obviously has some restrictions, if he made man in the
> image of himself then he must have some human form and
> characteristics. We know he must also be omnipotent and have the
> ability to speak. Although we can't define him we do have rules which
> we can apply to him.
But surely being omnipotent means he has no rules? Being omnipotent is not a 'rule' one can apply to something surely? It means all powerful... As in the omnipotent being has no rules whatsoever and can do as they please, regardless of what scientific rules state are impossibilites for anyone or anything.
> Sorry but that's tosh. He gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Mt
> Tsiani (as were into Religion) they are strict rules on how we should
> live our lives, and ones that must be obeyed if we want to go to
> Heaven.
Erm, no, I meant he has no rules he has to abide by. And I'm not meaning moral rules or whatever, scientific rules, like the fact that as a human I cannot, say, fly just using my own body or whatever...
> We must basically lick his boots, we must be good Christians who
> follow his rules from birth to death in order to go to his Pearly
> home in the sky.
Exactly why I believe that if there is a God, he's on one massive ego trip...
> He himself obviously has some restrictions, if he made man in the
> image of himself then he must have some human form and
> characteristics. We know he must also be omnipotent and have the
> ability to speak. Although we can't define him we do have rules which
> we can apply to him.
But surely being omnipotent means he has no rules? Being omnipotent is not a 'rule' one can apply to something surely? It means all powerful... As in the omnipotent being has no rules whatsoever and can do as they please, regardless of what scientific rules state are impossibilites for anyone or anything.
To Sibs
Omnipotent isn't a restriction or a categorisation, only that we know God must be far more powerful than ourselves and inhabit a world which is beyond out comprehension. It rules out the possibility of him living among us.
However, God cannot technically do everything. For example, if you told God to build a sandwich so big he couldn't eat it. If he created a sandwich so big that he couldn't eat it, he can't eat everything and if he couldn't then he can't make a sandwich too big.
Although it's ridiculous it does show that even being omnipotent has its limits. I'm not saying that he is necessarily. I simply mean that he must be far more powerful than ourselves and in many more places at once.
EDIT - It doesn't mean that he has no rules, only that he cannot be applied to our laws of physics and beliefs about what is possible. Perhaps the secrets lie in the large part of the Brain which we cannot use.
He may be all-powerful but even that brings its rules, surely he must confirm to watching our world and he is the only one who can cause certain situations that Christianity claims have happened (eg Noah an the flood)
In other words he is bound by responsibility and even an omnipotent being has restrictions, not physically, but morally.
Omnipotent isn't a restriction or a categorisation, only that we know God must be far more powerful than ourselves and inhabit a world which is beyond out comprehension. It rules out the possibility of him living among us.
However, God cannot technically do everything. For example, if you told God to build a sandwich so big he couldn't eat it. If he created a sandwich so big that he couldn't eat it, he can't eat everything and if he couldn't then he can't make a sandwich too big.
Although it's ridiculous it does show that even being omnipotent has its limits. I'm not saying that he is necessarily. I simply mean that he must be far more powerful than ourselves and in many more places at once.
EDIT - It doesn't mean that he has no rules, only that he cannot be applied to our laws of physics and beliefs about what is possible. Perhaps the secrets lie in the large part of the Brain which we cannot use.
He may be all-powerful but even that brings its rules, surely he must confirm to watching our world and he is the only one who can cause certain situations that Christianity claims have happened (eg Noah an the flood)
In other words he is bound by responsibility and even an omnipotent being has restrictions, not physically, but morally.
I respect what you are saying tnc and agree that we are all anxious of death and find different ways to cope.
Sibs,I believe that God can do absolutely anything except for logical impossibilities ie.a square circle.This is because they are not possibilities for God because you cannot have something that is a square and a circle at the same circle.This is however different to lets say a unicorn.There is no reason for unicorns to exist they just don't so God could create unicorns.
Sibs,I believe that God can do absolutely anything except for logical impossibilities ie.a square circle.This is because they are not possibilities for God because you cannot have something that is a square and a circle at the same circle.This is however different to lets say a unicorn.There is no reason for unicorns to exist they just don't so God could create unicorns.
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