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I'm aware it's a week or so sooner than the monthly "Science vs Religion" yawnfest postfrenzy we have, but this article is worth a read.
Especially if you're a stupid fundementalist
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1559743,00.html[/URL]
Especially if you're a stupid fundementalist
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1559743,00.html[/URL]
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The notion of God himself being Scientifically explainable is out of the question, as he is exempt from the rules. However, that does not mean that all of the various religious stories and points of view can't be justified or compared against some Science.
Religion and Science don't want to mix, to put it bluntly. It's like tying to meld a bar of soap to a Goats' head; possible but very hard and it's not going to happen. Scientists disregard all that religious believers say whilst religious believers refuse to acknowledge or even listen to anything that goes against their viewpoints on God and religion.
Religion and Science don't want to mix, to put it bluntly. It's like tying to meld a bar of soap to a Goats' head; possible but very hard and it's not going to happen. Scientists disregard all that religious believers say whilst religious believers refuse to acknowledge or even listen to anything that goes against their viewpoints on God and religion.
FinalFantasyFanatic wrote:
> Thus, the two do not merge - the entire notion of a supreme being,
> exempt from the laws of space and time, is completely impossible from
> a scientific view-point.
I think you're missing his point, and I disagree anyway. I think science and religion can be merged, and the idea of Creation is perhaps a good example. The Bible states he did it in 7 days and 7 nights (with a rest day), but when God created the World he did it outside the laws of space and time. Therefore, the book of Genesis is explaining how God created the World in terms we can understand.
We don't know how God created the World exactly, but I think to simply believe he created it in the first place is believing in Creationism. Why shouldn't science be used to help explain how God did it?
> Thus, the two do not merge - the entire notion of a supreme being,
> exempt from the laws of space and time, is completely impossible from
> a scientific view-point.
I think you're missing his point, and I disagree anyway. I think science and religion can be merged, and the idea of Creation is perhaps a good example. The Bible states he did it in 7 days and 7 nights (with a rest day), but when God created the World he did it outside the laws of space and time. Therefore, the book of Genesis is explaining how God created the World in terms we can understand.
We don't know how God created the World exactly, but I think to simply believe he created it in the first place is believing in Creationism. Why shouldn't science be used to help explain how God did it?
Science can't be used to explain Creation ... a working theory on how God made man from dust, and woman from a bit of bone doesn't exist, because it would be wrong in all scientific light.
As I say, God is supposedly outside of time and space, so science cannot be used to explain anything he did, because science relies on the strict laws regarding time and space in order to be functional and provable.
As I say, God is supposedly outside of time and space, so science cannot be used to explain anything he did, because science relies on the strict laws regarding time and space in order to be functional and provable.
It depends what type of scientific or religious believer you are.Hardliners on both sides are never going to compremise whereas more liberal believers like me are willing to try and find common ground between science and religion.
But, yeah, then there's the whole other issue of the Bible itself ... word of man / word of God ... truth / parable ... etc etc etc ...
If you're talking core concepts, then sure science and faith can mix. It's when you get into the specific of religion that things start getting awkward.
If you're talking core concepts, then sure science and faith can mix. It's when you get into the specific of religion that things start getting awkward.
tnc wrote:
> Have you not heard how God created the Earth in seven days, resting on
> the seventh?
Yes. Yes I have. I meant that days are simply a measure of time used by man. We define days by how long it takes the Earth to rotate on it's axis, thus a day is the time taken for the Sun to rise, set, and rise again. So how God created the Earth (and rest of the Universe I presume) in seven days is beyond me. Days had no meaning until after the Universe was created... Meh. Just a little point I picked up on. Nout too serious.
> Have you not heard how God created the Earth in seven days, resting on
> the seventh?
Yes. Yes I have. I meant that days are simply a measure of time used by man. We define days by how long it takes the Earth to rotate on it's axis, thus a day is the time taken for the Sun to rise, set, and rise again. So how God created the Earth (and rest of the Universe I presume) in seven days is beyond me. Days had no meaning until after the Universe was created... Meh. Just a little point I picked up on. Nout too serious.
You're changing your mind here FFF, first you say the very idea of God and Christianity can't be explained by Science and now you say the core concepts are comparable?
Anyway, the core itself can be explained, as you said, in terms of Science supporting the system of creation to a degree. Science basically agrees that life sudennly came into existence (although using the Big Bang theory) and are saying it evolved, which ties in with the Earth being created and God as a supernatural being.
Some of the more complicated elements can be compared, but when a logical explanation is applied Christianity shuns it and says something like there is far too much assumption going on, yet sometimes the reason is very logical (Jesus walked on the Dead Sea) when it's being compared to "it just happened, as Jesus was the son of God".
I don't like to slate religion all the time, as people's views should be respected, but it's a little hard to follow Christians point of view when it comes to matters such as miracles.
Ant?
Anyway, the core itself can be explained, as you said, in terms of Science supporting the system of creation to a degree. Science basically agrees that life sudennly came into existence (although using the Big Bang theory) and are saying it evolved, which ties in with the Earth being created and God as a supernatural being.
Some of the more complicated elements can be compared, but when a logical explanation is applied Christianity shuns it and says something like there is far too much assumption going on, yet sometimes the reason is very logical (Jesus walked on the Dead Sea) when it's being compared to "it just happened, as Jesus was the son of God".
I don't like to slate religion all the time, as people's views should be respected, but it's a little hard to follow Christians point of view when it comes to matters such as miracles.
Ant?
The way I have always seen religion is a basic guide to how we should live our lives.I think that is the main objective for religion.Sure God wants us to believe in him and his prophets but the way you live your life is just as important.I don't believe the Garden of Eden existed but that it is part of the guide to life.
To Sibs,
God apparently created the Universe, yet he must have been a tad Scientific to work out how the whole thing would function.
Now, if this knowledge has been imparted onto us, surely we have the means to calculate days and years? Now, as we can prove the Science of days and years we'll say it's correct. If it is then we have the same measure of time that God did, therefore he did it in a week.
I know it's hard to get your head round, but that's just the arguement of God being a supernatural and supreme being going full-circle again. The idea that the Earth was created in seven days really doesn't seem feasible to me, as there is no description of the how or why.
Anyway, we didn't make the Earth spin on its axis or the rotational field around the Sun, therefore it isn't defined by us. Obviously (following Christianity) whoever made the Earth and the solar system defined the Earth's rotations, therefore the day is the same measure.
God apparently created the Universe, yet he must have been a tad Scientific to work out how the whole thing would function.
Now, if this knowledge has been imparted onto us, surely we have the means to calculate days and years? Now, as we can prove the Science of days and years we'll say it's correct. If it is then we have the same measure of time that God did, therefore he did it in a week.
I know it's hard to get your head round, but that's just the arguement of God being a supernatural and supreme being going full-circle again. The idea that the Earth was created in seven days really doesn't seem feasible to me, as there is no description of the how or why.
Anyway, we didn't make the Earth spin on its axis or the rotational field around the Sun, therefore it isn't defined by us. Obviously (following Christianity) whoever made the Earth and the solar system defined the Earth's rotations, therefore the day is the same measure.
To Walrus,
I agree with you in that it is a code of moral conduct, but it is also something else.
Religion was something created by early man to make him feel he had a purpose in life, that he could impart teachings and meet the person that created him one day. The church embelished this belief that religion gave purpose when it was formed, so that they were not leading futile lives.
Let's face it, death is a startling concept that is almost impossible for us to comprehend, it's only natural we created a comfort zone and created the concept of religion. After all, it means we do not just disappear when we die, lessening the fear of the unknown.
I agree with you in that it is a code of moral conduct, but it is also something else.
Religion was something created by early man to make him feel he had a purpose in life, that he could impart teachings and meet the person that created him one day. The church embelished this belief that religion gave purpose when it was formed, so that they were not leading futile lives.
Let's face it, death is a startling concept that is almost impossible for us to comprehend, it's only natural we created a comfort zone and created the concept of religion. After all, it means we do not just disappear when we die, lessening the fear of the unknown.
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