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I'm aware it's a week or so sooner than the monthly "Science vs Religion" yawnfest postfrenzy we have, but this article is worth a read.
Especially if you're a stupid fundementalist
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1559743,00.html[/URL]
Especially if you're a stupid fundementalist
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1559743,00.html[/URL]
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Sibs wrote:
> However, God has no rules...
Sorry but that's tosh. He gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Mt Tsiani (as were into Religion) they are strict rules on how we should live our lives, and ones that must be obeyed if we want to go to Heaven.
We must basically lick his boots, we must be good Christians who follow his rules from birth to death in order to go to his Pearly home in the sky.
He himself obviously has some restrictions, if he made man in the image of himself then he must have some human form and characteristics. We know he must also be omnipotent and have the ability to speak. Although we can't define him we do have rules which we can apply to him.
> However, God has no rules...
Sorry but that's tosh. He gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Mt Tsiani (as were into Religion) they are strict rules on how we should live our lives, and ones that must be obeyed if we want to go to Heaven.
We must basically lick his boots, we must be good Christians who follow his rules from birth to death in order to go to his Pearly home in the sky.
He himself obviously has some restrictions, if he made man in the image of himself then he must have some human form and characteristics. We know he must also be omnipotent and have the ability to speak. Although we can't define him we do have rules which we can apply to him.
To tnc
I still feel that there is a God and there is little anyone can do make me feel otherwise.I don't see how everything could be how it is without something external and supremely powerful which explains its own existence (because God is a Neccesary being)driving it.
I believe there is something beyond death and that might seem naive to you.But I can't get my head around it going from nothing to something or from no life to life.You might think I'm believing in God due to the God of the Gaps theory in which people believe in God to explain things which aren't understood.Rainbows used to be attributed to God showing us he still loved us but now we know otherwise.
But God seems more reasonable to me then the Big Bang just happening.I believe in the Big Bang but believe God caused it.
I still feel that there is a God and there is little anyone can do make me feel otherwise.I don't see how everything could be how it is without something external and supremely powerful which explains its own existence (because God is a Neccesary being)driving it.
I believe there is something beyond death and that might seem naive to you.But I can't get my head around it going from nothing to something or from no life to life.You might think I'm believing in God due to the God of the Gaps theory in which people believe in God to explain things which aren't understood.Rainbows used to be attributed to God showing us he still loved us but now we know otherwise.
But God seems more reasonable to me then the Big Bang just happening.I believe in the Big Bang but believe God caused it.
So I did, fancy that.
My basic point there was that when you're talking about a faith in general things, science can often fit in with that to explain certain key concpets pretty well (the whole 'God-issue' being neatly avoided) - but when you get into religion, and people are using the Bible as a base of fact, then science can't fit with it, because many of the specific thing mentioned are impossible to scientifically explained.
So yar.
I kinda get what you're on about with the Dead Sea ... but, nah, firstly, it only makes you slightly more boyant than usual, and it's hardly a miricle if everyone can do exactly the same thing. But then we're into the whole topic on a simple party-trick / accident / complete lie being built up and up, filtered down and down by the Bible's text-collectors and the early founders of Christianityto manipulate ... which I love so much.
My basic point there was that when you're talking about a faith in general things, science can often fit in with that to explain certain key concpets pretty well (the whole 'God-issue' being neatly avoided) - but when you get into religion, and people are using the Bible as a base of fact, then science can't fit with it, because many of the specific thing mentioned are impossible to scientifically explained.
So yar.
I kinda get what you're on about with the Dead Sea ... but, nah, firstly, it only makes you slightly more boyant than usual, and it's hardly a miricle if everyone can do exactly the same thing. But then we're into the whole topic on a simple party-trick / accident / complete lie being built up and up, filtered down and down by the Bible's text-collectors and the early founders of Christianityto manipulate ... which I love so much.
Walrus wrote:
> RELIGION AND SCIENCE ARE COMPATIBLE
Just a point... But science aims to explain everything with rules. There's rules dictating gravity, chemical reactions, radiation, molecules, blah blah blah... It cannot (and I doubt it will) ever be able to explain everything simply because it relies on humans seeing (often incredibly complex) patterns in what happens in certain circumstances.
However, God has no rules... So how can science and religion be compatible? If religion is to be believed God can do anything... He abides by no rules, but scientifically, everything has to abide by certain rules... Scientifically there should always be an explanation as to why something happens. But religion states that no, God just can do whatever. No need to obey any rules, God just can... So... Meh. Contradictory surely?
> RELIGION AND SCIENCE ARE COMPATIBLE
Just a point... But science aims to explain everything with rules. There's rules dictating gravity, chemical reactions, radiation, molecules, blah blah blah... It cannot (and I doubt it will) ever be able to explain everything simply because it relies on humans seeing (often incredibly complex) patterns in what happens in certain circumstances.
However, God has no rules... So how can science and religion be compatible? If religion is to be believed God can do anything... He abides by no rules, but scientifically, everything has to abide by certain rules... Scientifically there should always be an explanation as to why something happens. But religion states that no, God just can do whatever. No need to obey any rules, God just can... So... Meh. Contradictory surely?
To Walrus,
I agree with you in that it is a code of moral conduct, but it is also something else.
Religion was something created by early man to make him feel he had a purpose in life, that he could impart teachings and meet the person that created him one day. The church embelished this belief that religion gave purpose when it was formed, so that they were not leading futile lives.
Let's face it, death is a startling concept that is almost impossible for us to comprehend, it's only natural we created a comfort zone and created the concept of religion. After all, it means we do not just disappear when we die, lessening the fear of the unknown.
I agree with you in that it is a code of moral conduct, but it is also something else.
Religion was something created by early man to make him feel he had a purpose in life, that he could impart teachings and meet the person that created him one day. The church embelished this belief that religion gave purpose when it was formed, so that they were not leading futile lives.
Let's face it, death is a startling concept that is almost impossible for us to comprehend, it's only natural we created a comfort zone and created the concept of religion. After all, it means we do not just disappear when we die, lessening the fear of the unknown.
To Sibs,
God apparently created the Universe, yet he must have been a tad Scientific to work out how the whole thing would function.
Now, if this knowledge has been imparted onto us, surely we have the means to calculate days and years? Now, as we can prove the Science of days and years we'll say it's correct. If it is then we have the same measure of time that God did, therefore he did it in a week.
I know it's hard to get your head round, but that's just the arguement of God being a supernatural and supreme being going full-circle again. The idea that the Earth was created in seven days really doesn't seem feasible to me, as there is no description of the how or why.
Anyway, we didn't make the Earth spin on its axis or the rotational field around the Sun, therefore it isn't defined by us. Obviously (following Christianity) whoever made the Earth and the solar system defined the Earth's rotations, therefore the day is the same measure.
God apparently created the Universe, yet he must have been a tad Scientific to work out how the whole thing would function.
Now, if this knowledge has been imparted onto us, surely we have the means to calculate days and years? Now, as we can prove the Science of days and years we'll say it's correct. If it is then we have the same measure of time that God did, therefore he did it in a week.
I know it's hard to get your head round, but that's just the arguement of God being a supernatural and supreme being going full-circle again. The idea that the Earth was created in seven days really doesn't seem feasible to me, as there is no description of the how or why.
Anyway, we didn't make the Earth spin on its axis or the rotational field around the Sun, therefore it isn't defined by us. Obviously (following Christianity) whoever made the Earth and the solar system defined the Earth's rotations, therefore the day is the same measure.
The way I have always seen religion is a basic guide to how we should live our lives.I think that is the main objective for religion.Sure God wants us to believe in him and his prophets but the way you live your life is just as important.I don't believe the Garden of Eden existed but that it is part of the guide to life.
You're changing your mind here FFF, first you say the very idea of God and Christianity can't be explained by Science and now you say the core concepts are comparable?
Anyway, the core itself can be explained, as you said, in terms of Science supporting the system of creation to a degree. Science basically agrees that life sudennly came into existence (although using the Big Bang theory) and are saying it evolved, which ties in with the Earth being created and God as a supernatural being.
Some of the more complicated elements can be compared, but when a logical explanation is applied Christianity shuns it and says something like there is far too much assumption going on, yet sometimes the reason is very logical (Jesus walked on the Dead Sea) when it's being compared to "it just happened, as Jesus was the son of God".
I don't like to slate religion all the time, as people's views should be respected, but it's a little hard to follow Christians point of view when it comes to matters such as miracles.
Ant?
Anyway, the core itself can be explained, as you said, in terms of Science supporting the system of creation to a degree. Science basically agrees that life sudennly came into existence (although using the Big Bang theory) and are saying it evolved, which ties in with the Earth being created and God as a supernatural being.
Some of the more complicated elements can be compared, but when a logical explanation is applied Christianity shuns it and says something like there is far too much assumption going on, yet sometimes the reason is very logical (Jesus walked on the Dead Sea) when it's being compared to "it just happened, as Jesus was the son of God".
I don't like to slate religion all the time, as people's views should be respected, but it's a little hard to follow Christians point of view when it comes to matters such as miracles.
Ant?
tnc wrote:
> Have you not heard how God created the Earth in seven days, resting on
> the seventh?
Yes. Yes I have. I meant that days are simply a measure of time used by man. We define days by how long it takes the Earth to rotate on it's axis, thus a day is the time taken for the Sun to rise, set, and rise again. So how God created the Earth (and rest of the Universe I presume) in seven days is beyond me. Days had no meaning until after the Universe was created... Meh. Just a little point I picked up on. Nout too serious.
> Have you not heard how God created the Earth in seven days, resting on
> the seventh?
Yes. Yes I have. I meant that days are simply a measure of time used by man. We define days by how long it takes the Earth to rotate on it's axis, thus a day is the time taken for the Sun to rise, set, and rise again. So how God created the Earth (and rest of the Universe I presume) in seven days is beyond me. Days had no meaning until after the Universe was created... Meh. Just a little point I picked up on. Nout too serious.
But, yeah, then there's the whole other issue of the Bible itself ... word of man / word of God ... truth / parable ... etc etc etc ...
If you're talking core concepts, then sure science and faith can mix. It's when you get into the specific of religion that things start getting awkward.
If you're talking core concepts, then sure science and faith can mix. It's when you get into the specific of religion that things start getting awkward.
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