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I'm aware it's a week or so sooner than the monthly "Science vs Religion" yawnfest postfrenzy we have, but this article is worth a read.
Especially if you're a stupid fundementalist
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1559743,00.html[/URL]
Especially if you're a stupid fundementalist
[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1559743,00.html[/URL]
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Sorry Lightster, but I'm hugely confused, heh. Whether I'm being completely misled or not I don't know, but the first post from yourself that was aimed at me sounded pretty serious. Which is why I was a little pertubed, as technically I agreed with the point the article was making. If it was just a bit of a bait, then don't worry about it.
Ant wrote:
> EDIT - And I'm really not entirely sure whether you read my reply
> thorougly or simply angrily skimmed through it, bubbling at the
> mouth, already foretelling what my point of view what be.
I really need to work on my writing; I'd hoped that, by the nature of the second post, you could have seen the first one was just baiting you. Guess it wasn't that obvious; my apologies.
> EDIT - And I'm really not entirely sure whether you read my reply
> thorougly or simply angrily skimmed through it, bubbling at the
> mouth, already foretelling what my point of view what be.
I really need to work on my writing; I'd hoped that, by the nature of the second post, you could have seen the first one was just baiting you. Guess it wasn't that obvious; my apologies.
A lot of people have the problem of Natural Evil tnc.The way that can be explained is sort of that they help humans to 'grow'.It sounds strange but due to natural disasters humans have to learn how to overcome them and work together.I'm sure that there is a lot of technology solely down to the fact that natural disasters happen.It helps us to grow it terms of morality and spiritually for some.This is one of the hardest points to comprehend but as George Micheal said,'You've got to have faith.'
They also try to teach us to respect mother nature but some don't listen.
*Looks at a certain american president*
They also try to teach us to respect mother nature but some don't listen.
*Looks at a certain american president*
tnc wrote:
> Yes, a being like that must be beyond out laws out of physics, in the
> same way that we are beyond the laws of physics that apply to a
> creature such as an Ant.
Heh, at first I read that as "in the same way that we are beyond the laws of physics that apply to a creature such as Ant." As in Ant. The guy on this forum... Heh... I found some entertainment from it anyway...
> A being such as that is not exempt of all Science, after all, if it
> cannot be explained in anyway it cannot exist. I'm not saying that we
> have the resources or knowledge to explain it, only that somewhere,
> perhaps beings' more powerful than who we call God have the resources
> and have made the laws to control that being.
See, I agree with this, but I think most religious types would be immediately offended by it. Like if we said, hey, maybe there is a really powerful being out there who created us, but he is still bound by some rules, the Pope / church / GW Bush would get red-faced and insist that God was all powerful. Then if we said maybe there exists beings more powerful than God that could perhaps 'explain' (or at least comprehend themselves...) the power of God, they'd get even more red-faced, again insisting God is all powerful and nothing could be more powerful...
> To us the being that is God is all powerful, creating a world and
> physics, but think about it. It can't all have happened by pure
> accidence. This being wasn't "created" in the way we
> believe, as they had a complex enough Scientific knowledge to put
> restraints like Gravity on Earth. The being then imparted the means
> to this knowledge (whether deliberately or accidentally) on humans,
> so we can now explain many things we couldn't before.
Again, it's a question of "If God exists, and created everything, who/what created God?". I reckon it's far more plausible that there could be a powerful being out there, but that this being isn't all powerful... I still don't believe that to be true, but I believe it's more plausible than an unexplainable all-powerful God. However, I think that's exactly the kind of God most religions believe in and promote... And I think religious people would get very angry at the suggestion that maybe there is a really powerful 'God' being, but then maybe there's even more powerful being ruling over God...
> Yes, a being like that must be beyond out laws out of physics, in the
> same way that we are beyond the laws of physics that apply to a
> creature such as an Ant.
Heh, at first I read that as "in the same way that we are beyond the laws of physics that apply to a creature such as Ant." As in Ant. The guy on this forum... Heh... I found some entertainment from it anyway...
> A being such as that is not exempt of all Science, after all, if it
> cannot be explained in anyway it cannot exist. I'm not saying that we
> have the resources or knowledge to explain it, only that somewhere,
> perhaps beings' more powerful than who we call God have the resources
> and have made the laws to control that being.
See, I agree with this, but I think most religious types would be immediately offended by it. Like if we said, hey, maybe there is a really powerful being out there who created us, but he is still bound by some rules, the Pope / church / GW Bush would get red-faced and insist that God was all powerful. Then if we said maybe there exists beings more powerful than God that could perhaps 'explain' (or at least comprehend themselves...) the power of God, they'd get even more red-faced, again insisting God is all powerful and nothing could be more powerful...
> To us the being that is God is all powerful, creating a world and
> physics, but think about it. It can't all have happened by pure
> accidence. This being wasn't "created" in the way we
> believe, as they had a complex enough Scientific knowledge to put
> restraints like Gravity on Earth. The being then imparted the means
> to this knowledge (whether deliberately or accidentally) on humans,
> so we can now explain many things we couldn't before.
Again, it's a question of "If God exists, and created everything, who/what created God?". I reckon it's far more plausible that there could be a powerful being out there, but that this being isn't all powerful... I still don't believe that to be true, but I believe it's more plausible than an unexplainable all-powerful God. However, I think that's exactly the kind of God most religions believe in and promote... And I think religious people would get very angry at the suggestion that maybe there is a really powerful 'God' being, but then maybe there's even more powerful being ruling over God...
To FFF,
I realised that and finished off by speaking about restrictions in the last paragraph of that post.
I realised that and finished off by speaking about restrictions in the last paragraph of that post.
As we seem to have taken the discussion round to God I'll sum my view up reasonably quickly;
To be brutally honest I have been doubting the existence of there being a God for a while now and it just seems to me, as I'm someone who deals in fatcs and truths, that there isn't enough evidence to show a being such as that could possibly exist.
It's not the omnipotency that gets me the most, only that this being apparently does not care about our well being (letting monstrosities happen) and then expects us to live by a rigorous moral code, with certain people devoting their lives?
The existence of Heaven is again an over-dramatised view. I can't believe that in an unknown reality and in an unknown solar system there lurks a giant cloud system where all of the dead are sent, providing they have led moral lives, it just doesn't sound likely.
So, the fact that the theory of God has so many holes in it and that evidence is being uncovered every day to support Evolution doesn't enhance my faith in the unknown.
To be brutally honest I have been doubting the existence of there being a God for a while now and it just seems to me, as I'm someone who deals in fatcs and truths, that there isn't enough evidence to show a being such as that could possibly exist.
It's not the omnipotency that gets me the most, only that this being apparently does not care about our well being (letting monstrosities happen) and then expects us to live by a rigorous moral code, with certain people devoting their lives?
The existence of Heaven is again an over-dramatised view. I can't believe that in an unknown reality and in an unknown solar system there lurks a giant cloud system where all of the dead are sent, providing they have led moral lives, it just doesn't sound likely.
So, the fact that the theory of God has so many holes in it and that evidence is being uncovered every day to support Evolution doesn't enhance my faith in the unknown.
tnc wrote:
> Sibs wrote:
>
> However, God has no rules...
>
> Sorry but that's tosh. He gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Mt
> Tsiani (as were into Religion) they are strict rules on how we should
> live our lives, and ones that must be obeyed if we want to go to
> Heaven.
He meant God has no restrictions on what he can do in space and time.
And the ten commandments don't apply to him either.
> Sibs wrote:
>
> However, God has no rules...
>
> Sorry but that's tosh. He gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Mt
> Tsiani (as were into Religion) they are strict rules on how we should
> live our lives, and ones that must be obeyed if we want to go to
> Heaven.
He meant God has no restrictions on what he can do in space and time.
And the ten commandments don't apply to him either.
Good thing there are no fundamentalists here.They give religion a bad name.
Walrus wrote:
> Sibs wrote:
> I've come to the conclusion that the Universe is simply an
> over-sized
> snow-globe, as per Earthworm Jim...
>
> Oh, and also, all our leaders are cowes in human costumes.
>
> [/so-called humour]
>
> That could be taken as offensive in the context of the discussion but
> instead I recognise it as a very,very bad attempt at humour.
I aim to please...
But seriously, if anyone took that as offensive I would laugh heartily.
> Sibs wrote:
> I've come to the conclusion that the Universe is simply an
> over-sized
> snow-globe, as per Earthworm Jim...
>
> Oh, and also, all our leaders are cowes in human costumes.
>
> [/so-called humour]
>
> That could be taken as offensive in the context of the discussion but
> instead I recognise it as a very,very bad attempt at humour.
I aim to please...
But seriously, if anyone took that as offensive I would laugh heartily.
Sibs wrote:
> I've come to the conclusion that the Universe is simply an over-sized
> snow-globe, as per Earthworm Jim...
>
> Oh, and also, all our leaders are cowes in human costumes.
>
> [/so-called humour]
That could be taken as offensive in the context of the discussion but instead I recognise it as a very,very bad attempt at humour.
> I've come to the conclusion that the Universe is simply an over-sized
> snow-globe, as per Earthworm Jim...
>
> Oh, and also, all our leaders are cowes in human costumes.
>
> [/so-called humour]
That could be taken as offensive in the context of the discussion but instead I recognise it as a very,very bad attempt at humour.
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