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Oh dear.
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Ant wrote:
> I wouldn't say
> tainted, just merely taking advantage of a situation.
In my opinion that advantage was at risk of detrimenting the sport all together.
It's like putting Manchester United against Mansfield Town because every other team had to pull out.
Premiership vs Division 3.
It's unfair
> I wouldn't say
> tainted, just merely taking advantage of a situation.
In my opinion that advantage was at risk of detrimenting the sport all together.
It's like putting Manchester United against Mansfield Town because every other team had to pull out.
Premiership vs Division 3.
It's unfair
F1 is the most boring ballhat "sport" to exist anyway, so who cares
Whose to say Schumacher wouldn't have won it anyway? The Ferraris are slowly but surely coming back into it, they got a 2nd and 3rd in Montreal after all. Okay so Schumacher made a bigger points than he probably should have done, but if he wins the Title I will not look back on it as tainted.
Think about it. All 7 teams signed up for Michelin. Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi signed up for Bridgestone. The Michelins sucked and would only last 10 laps. So if we're talkin'unreliability' (although I obviously know it's not that simple), then Ferrari, and Schumacher win! Cars retire due to problems all the time, not because of driver fault. This time around, only the Ferraris started, because of a decision they made at the start of the season. YES it should have been sorted, and YES it was really just a bit of a laugh for Michael and Rubens, but Ferrari's choice to use Bridgestones at the start of the year technically entitles them to the points. I wouldn't say tainted, just merely taking advantage of a situation.
Think about it. All 7 teams signed up for Michelin. Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi signed up for Bridgestone. The Michelins sucked and would only last 10 laps. So if we're talkin'unreliability' (although I obviously know it's not that simple), then Ferrari, and Schumacher win! Cars retire due to problems all the time, not because of driver fault. This time around, only the Ferraris started, because of a decision they made at the start of the season. YES it should have been sorted, and YES it was really just a bit of a laugh for Michael and Rubens, but Ferrari's choice to use Bridgestones at the start of the year technically entitles them to the points. I wouldn't say tainted, just merely taking advantage of a situation.
Ineedsleep wrote:
> They would have had enough. I'm sure I heard last night that
> Michelin had flown in a whole new different load of tyres but the FIA
> said the teams changing to these new tyres would incur penalities -
> hence my question earlier.
I heard Michelin couldn't say the new ones where safe, as they had only be used in barcelonia.
Just to quote & comment on the 'it's not ferrari's fault' view:
'He pointed out that (as Martin Brundle said) Schumacher had to stop a race after tyre problems earlier in the race. The Michelin group had no sympathy, so why should Ferrari not make use of the points now?'
That was a problem with regaining heat after the safety carhad come out, and the Michelins had the same problem just not as bad. Kimi also had a puncture which shows it wasn't a unique manufacturer problem, like the michelin's that we're unsafe. I think ferrari are not in it for the sport. Take the testing agreement, there to make F1fair, and who doesn't sign up for it. One final point on the strange idea that this is good for the championship: ferrari have gained an unfair advantage. Unless the results are scraped, a schumi chapionship will always be tainted and with a long season, I don't won't us to look back at this as 'the turning point'. Remember, kimi lost the championship by two points in 2003, every indication so far shows this one will be close.
> They would have had enough. I'm sure I heard last night that
> Michelin had flown in a whole new different load of tyres but the FIA
> said the teams changing to these new tyres would incur penalities -
> hence my question earlier.
I heard Michelin couldn't say the new ones where safe, as they had only be used in barcelonia.
Just to quote & comment on the 'it's not ferrari's fault' view:
'He pointed out that (as Martin Brundle said) Schumacher had to stop a race after tyre problems earlier in the race. The Michelin group had no sympathy, so why should Ferrari not make use of the points now?'
That was a problem with regaining heat after the safety carhad come out, and the Michelins had the same problem just not as bad. Kimi also had a puncture which shows it wasn't a unique manufacturer problem, like the michelin's that we're unsafe. I think ferrari are not in it for the sport. Take the testing agreement, there to make F1fair, and who doesn't sign up for it. One final point on the strange idea that this is good for the championship: ferrari have gained an unfair advantage. Unless the results are scraped, a schumi chapionship will always be tainted and with a long season, I don't won't us to look back at this as 'the turning point'. Remember, kimi lost the championship by two points in 2003, every indication so far shows this one will be close.
Your Honour wrote:
> And that's assuming that each team would have enough tires. If they
> had to be changed every 10 laps, then they would have needed 8 sets
> of tires. Which I very much doubt they would have had.
They would have had enough. I'm sure I heard last night that Michelin had flown in a whole new different load of tyres but the FIA said the teams changing to these new tyres would incur penalities - hence my question earlier.
> And that's assuming that each team would have enough tires. If they
> had to be changed every 10 laps, then they would have needed 8 sets
> of tires. Which I very much doubt they would have had.
They would have had enough. I'm sure I heard last night that Michelin had flown in a whole new different load of tyres but the FIA said the teams changing to these new tyres would incur penalities - hence my question earlier.
Your Honour wrote:
> Heloo mate! How goes it?
Not bad thanks - still studying, so still enjoying the student life, though with less holiday these days (make up for it by posting during working hours). How about you?
> Thought I'd seen you around a few weeks back. Said hello, but then
> couldn't remember which thread it wa so had no idea if you'd replied
Yeh, I remember that and did reply, but I think the topic was deleted (I think the first post was something pretty offensive to something else)
> I see what you mean about the retiring, but surely Trulli retired
> first?
Another way to think of it is that when a car reaches the finishing line, it "retires" and the first one there wins the race. The same thing would then apply to the person who was first to arrive and retire on lap 1. To make it more complicated though, its possible that some of the cars would have had pit garages before the start line and some would have had garages afterwards, so will there be two camps when they look through the data - lap 0 retirees and lap 1 retirees according to where their garage was situated?
> If ever there was an event that would make F1 switch back to single
> tire manufactureres again, this is it...
Absolutely and it would be good to see. I wonder though, which company would get it? Or would it be an FIA tyre, or a combination project? The teams would only complicate things because they have cars that work with their tyres and might not be suited to other makes. Can you see Ferrari agreeing to go to Michelin, or Mclaren agreeing to go back to Bridgestone?
> Heloo mate! How goes it?
Not bad thanks - still studying, so still enjoying the student life, though with less holiday these days (make up for it by posting during working hours). How about you?
> Thought I'd seen you around a few weeks back. Said hello, but then
> couldn't remember which thread it wa so had no idea if you'd replied
Yeh, I remember that and did reply, but I think the topic was deleted (I think the first post was something pretty offensive to something else)
> I see what you mean about the retiring, but surely Trulli retired
> first?
Another way to think of it is that when a car reaches the finishing line, it "retires" and the first one there wins the race. The same thing would then apply to the person who was first to arrive and retire on lap 1. To make it more complicated though, its possible that some of the cars would have had pit garages before the start line and some would have had garages afterwards, so will there be two camps when they look through the data - lap 0 retirees and lap 1 retirees according to where their garage was situated?
> If ever there was an event that would make F1 switch back to single
> tire manufactureres again, this is it...
Absolutely and it would be good to see. I wonder though, which company would get it? Or would it be an FIA tyre, or a combination project? The teams would only complicate things because they have cars that work with their tyres and might not be suited to other makes. Can you see Ferrari agreeing to go to Michelin, or Mclaren agreeing to go back to Bridgestone?
Your Honour wrote:
> I see what you mean about the retiring, but surely Trulli retired
> first? Ah well, I'm sure it will all become clear as mud over the
> next couple of weeks.
I think the official line is that as none of them had crossed the line they all retired at the same time meaning grid positions count.
> I see what you mean about the retiring, but surely Trulli retired
> first? Ah well, I'm sure it will all become clear as mud over the
> next couple of weeks.
I think the official line is that as none of them had crossed the line they all retired at the same time meaning grid positions count.
ssxpro wrote:
> On top of that, if you read down the topic, look for a post by Ant.
> He pointed out that (as Martin Brundle said) Schumacher had to stop a
> race after tyre problems earlier in the race. The Michelin group had
> no sympathy, so why should Ferrari not make use of the points now?
I think the difference there was that Bridgestone thought the tyres would last and they did on the Jordan's, the Minardi's and Barrichello's car.
Michelin realised very quickly that their tyres were dangerous. I think I heard somewhere that there were 11 reported tyre incidents on the Friday practise with Ralf Schumacher getting the worst of it.
> On top of that, if you read down the topic, look for a post by Ant.
> He pointed out that (as Martin Brundle said) Schumacher had to stop a
> race after tyre problems earlier in the race. The Michelin group had
> no sympathy, so why should Ferrari not make use of the points now?
I think the difference there was that Bridgestone thought the tyres would last and they did on the Jordan's, the Minardi's and Barrichello's car.
Michelin realised very quickly that their tyres were dangerous. I think I heard somewhere that there were 11 reported tyre incidents on the Friday practise with Ralf Schumacher getting the worst of it.
Grandprix wrote:
> From what I understand the regulations to be, the change of tyres
> would have breached 6 regulations so the penalties would probably be
> severe.
And that's assuming that each team would have enough tires. If they had to be changed every 10 laps, then they would have needed 8 sets of tires. Which I very much doubt they would have had.
> From what I understand the regulations to be, the change of tyres
> would have breached 6 regulations so the penalties would probably be
> severe.
And that's assuming that each team would have enough tires. If they had to be changed every 10 laps, then they would have needed 8 sets of tires. Which I very much doubt they would have had.
Heloo mate! How goes it?
Thought I'd seen you around a few weeks back. Said hello, but then couldn't remember which thread it wa so had no idea if you'd replied :-)
I see what you mean about the retiring, but surely Trulli retired first? Ah well, I'm sure it will all become clear as mud over the next couple of weeks.
If ever there was an event that would make F1 switch back to single tire manufactureres again, this is it...
Thought I'd seen you around a few weeks back. Said hello, but then couldn't remember which thread it wa so had no idea if you'd replied :-)
I see what you mean about the retiring, but surely Trulli retired first? Ah well, I'm sure it will all become clear as mud over the next couple of weeks.
If ever there was an event that would make F1 switch back to single tire manufactureres again, this is it...
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