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I was watching this on the news (from about 10:30-14:00) and i have to say i found it rather exciting, obviously it was a terrible ordeal for everyone involved. Especially the poor kids that were practically naked, apparently when they asked for a drink they were told to strip, their clothes were doused with water and they were told to suck the moisture out. Pretty grim stuff.
Near the end of the special show an ITN cameraman actually got into the gym where everyone had been held, the roof had collapsed (chechen rebels had rigged it with 14 explosive charges) while people were still inside and apparently some 100 bodies lay inside.
The chechens then fled to some buildings nearby and were holding a sustained firefight with the russian military.
Near the end of the special show an ITN cameraman actually got into the gym where everyone had been held, the roof had collapsed (chechen rebels had rigged it with 14 explosive charges) while people were still inside and apparently some 100 bodies lay inside.
The chechens then fled to some buildings nearby and were holding a sustained firefight with the russian military.
Page:
Revolver wrote:
> Light wrote:
> Revolver wrote:
> Ah, so you're one of those people really willing to debate then?
>
> Yes, I want to discuss many terrible things that go on and on in my
Ø country. But I can't understand why do you hate us?
You want to discuss them, but you say you won’t listen to anyone who says anything other than agreement with you? Not exactly the sign of someone willing to discuss something, is it?
And no, I don’t hate you or your countrymen. Explain to me exactly why having sympthy with the people of Chechnya (but not, NOT, the hostage takers) means that I hate Russians. It’s possible to feel for one side without hating the other.
>
> Have you seen child's eyes while he melts like a snow under the arms
> fire?
Ø Beslan is a tragedy and it could be yours.
Yes, it could. However, after bombing Grozny flat, leaving bombs in childrens toys, raping and murdering numerous civilians...well, I can see just how your tragedy was brought about. What, do you think these people just woke up one day and decided to wipe out a generation of Beslanites?
We’ve already reaped what we have sown in that the Northern Ireland screw up has been haunting us since...well, since post WW1 for the division of the island, but LONG before that too.
>
> I'm working in Moscow as an engineer, never had hate or fierce to any
> of nations, living in my country. For example my boss is tatar
> (Moslem), people I talk with as close friends are armenian, georgian,
> ukrain, kazakhstan, uzbek... Some of my friends live in USA, Germany.
> I studied with guys from Ghana, Middle East, China, India... And we
Ø are all friends till now.
Then good for you; I wish more people would live together in harmony. Would your friends be as friendly if you bullied any of them? Would you be friendly to them if one of them arbitarily decided to push you around? Treat others as you would be treated yourself, and things can’t go far wrong. However, whether it’s troops murdering civilians or terrorists murdering troops, the situation is Chechnya means that atrocities like Beslan are inevitable.
>
> We all live together, respect interests and traditions of each other.
> And I'm not fully russian, my grandmother is hungarian. My
Ø grandgrandfather was an officer of Emperior's Army.
And because you and your friends, in your nice civil environment can do this, so can everyone? Like in Yugoslavia, where people lived and worked together before turning on each other in Ethnic violence you mean?
>
> So how I can tell you this if know absolutely nothing about Russia
> but you believe any word from newspapers? Have you read any book in
> Russian? Do you know any Russian poet or writer? Do you know the
Ø great history of my country?
Heh. Not in Russian, no. Read some translations though; Children of the Arbat was a good (albeit sluggish) semi-fictionalised account of early Stalinist Russia. The Master and Margharita (probs misspelled but...) is fantastic too. But they’re the only two I’ve read. Oh, and Crime and Punishment but I found that incredibly hard going (which doesn’t really qualify me to say that Dostoyevsky is therefore overrated, but I’m gonna say it anyway). Oddly, my favourite composer is Russian too; Mussorgsky beats the hell out of Tatu for musical talent (though their lesbo sex scenes are better...)
As to the history of your country, I know bits and bobs here and there; I know that the greatest of your leaders (Peter the Great, Ivan the Terrible, Catherine the Great) are the ones who shat hardest on their neighbours and their own people. I know that there is a tradition of respecting strong and vicious leaders.
I actually wrote an article on the Western perception of Russia a couple of years ago. I can post that if you like?
> So I ask you to get out your fingers out of your ears and try to
Ø listen to a man with a different opinion.
Oh, I’m listening. It’s just I find it difficult to take seriously a man who begins by saying “This is what I think and no matter what you say, I will not change my mind.” Rather blinkered of you, no. So whilst I’m taking on board what you say, when I know you’re not listening to me I wonder whether it’s worth the effort.
> Hey! Are you sick? We're not UFO from somewere outer space, we're
> human beenings with our own hearts, own souls, own minds. Mostly
> we're cristians, some are jew, some are moslem, some people are
Ø heathen from ancient times.
Yeah, I know; sorry about that. I tend to get rather flippant when annoyed. However, there are numerous confirmed reports of Russian military selling their equipment to Chechen rebels in order to supplement their pay.
>
> Are you really think that everyone here is killing, raping or
> destroying? Do you think that if I know your language that I've been
Ø studying it in KGB?
Oh for fu....no. No I don’t, and what’s more you’re being stunningly dishonest in claiming that was the implication. However, I do think that huge numbers of the Russian military in Chechnya are doing exactly that.
Incidentally, the KGB no longer exists. Are you sure you’re Russian?
>
> Ok... So please can you count those who had been killed in
> Jugoslavia, Afganistan, Iraq and so on by NATO troops? We have a
> proverb that tells: "He finds a particle of dust in my eye, but
Ø he can't find a log in his own".
Must lose something in the translation, but we have a similar one “He can’t see the wood for the trees”. And as I think the war in Iraq was entirely unjustified, I’m not overly happy about the civilian deaths there. The Afghan war I understand as a retributive measure for 9/11. Doesn’t mean I like that either. The much overdue Yugoslavian intervention I also understand; maybe if the Serbs, Croats, Muslims, and Albanians had been a little more like you and your friends then it wouldn’t have been necessary.
So to be absolutely clear; I believe the Iraq war will cause just as many tragedies as the Chechen Wars have done.
>
> I don't believe in bad nations but I do belive that there're a lot of
Ø bad people. If you were here I could show and prove it to you.
Well...as it happens I don’t believe in bad people. I believe people do bad things. And a lot of military are doing very bad things, just as a few Chechen terrorists do equally bad and worse things.
>
> And in Chechnya there is no civil war now. War is over. Chechens won
> the Russian Federation Football Cup. There're a small fanatic groups
> of terrorists who crash airplanes, destroy houses with sleeping
> families, capture children as hostages... If you can't see this than
Ø I can't see what is your confession. I call mine humanism.
Right...over. That must be why the Russian-installed president of Chechnya was assassinated, yeah? And why people are disappearing on a weekly basis, and never being heard from again? And why Amnesty list it as a blackspot for torture committed by both troops and terrorists? Winning a football match doesn’t end a war.
Of course, I’ve answered all of this on the basis you’re being genuine. If you’re just trolling, then I suppose I’ve wasted my time.
> Light wrote:
> Revolver wrote:
> Ah, so you're one of those people really willing to debate then?
>
> Yes, I want to discuss many terrible things that go on and on in my
Ø country. But I can't understand why do you hate us?
You want to discuss them, but you say you won’t listen to anyone who says anything other than agreement with you? Not exactly the sign of someone willing to discuss something, is it?
And no, I don’t hate you or your countrymen. Explain to me exactly why having sympthy with the people of Chechnya (but not, NOT, the hostage takers) means that I hate Russians. It’s possible to feel for one side without hating the other.
>
> Have you seen child's eyes while he melts like a snow under the arms
> fire?
Ø Beslan is a tragedy and it could be yours.
Yes, it could. However, after bombing Grozny flat, leaving bombs in childrens toys, raping and murdering numerous civilians...well, I can see just how your tragedy was brought about. What, do you think these people just woke up one day and decided to wipe out a generation of Beslanites?
We’ve already reaped what we have sown in that the Northern Ireland screw up has been haunting us since...well, since post WW1 for the division of the island, but LONG before that too.
>
> I'm working in Moscow as an engineer, never had hate or fierce to any
> of nations, living in my country. For example my boss is tatar
> (Moslem), people I talk with as close friends are armenian, georgian,
> ukrain, kazakhstan, uzbek... Some of my friends live in USA, Germany.
> I studied with guys from Ghana, Middle East, China, India... And we
Ø are all friends till now.
Then good for you; I wish more people would live together in harmony. Would your friends be as friendly if you bullied any of them? Would you be friendly to them if one of them arbitarily decided to push you around? Treat others as you would be treated yourself, and things can’t go far wrong. However, whether it’s troops murdering civilians or terrorists murdering troops, the situation is Chechnya means that atrocities like Beslan are inevitable.
>
> We all live together, respect interests and traditions of each other.
> And I'm not fully russian, my grandmother is hungarian. My
Ø grandgrandfather was an officer of Emperior's Army.
And because you and your friends, in your nice civil environment can do this, so can everyone? Like in Yugoslavia, where people lived and worked together before turning on each other in Ethnic violence you mean?
>
> So how I can tell you this if know absolutely nothing about Russia
> but you believe any word from newspapers? Have you read any book in
> Russian? Do you know any Russian poet or writer? Do you know the
Ø great history of my country?
Heh. Not in Russian, no. Read some translations though; Children of the Arbat was a good (albeit sluggish) semi-fictionalised account of early Stalinist Russia. The Master and Margharita (probs misspelled but...) is fantastic too. But they’re the only two I’ve read. Oh, and Crime and Punishment but I found that incredibly hard going (which doesn’t really qualify me to say that Dostoyevsky is therefore overrated, but I’m gonna say it anyway). Oddly, my favourite composer is Russian too; Mussorgsky beats the hell out of Tatu for musical talent (though their lesbo sex scenes are better...)
As to the history of your country, I know bits and bobs here and there; I know that the greatest of your leaders (Peter the Great, Ivan the Terrible, Catherine the Great) are the ones who shat hardest on their neighbours and their own people. I know that there is a tradition of respecting strong and vicious leaders.
I actually wrote an article on the Western perception of Russia a couple of years ago. I can post that if you like?
> So I ask you to get out your fingers out of your ears and try to
Ø listen to a man with a different opinion.
Oh, I’m listening. It’s just I find it difficult to take seriously a man who begins by saying “This is what I think and no matter what you say, I will not change my mind.” Rather blinkered of you, no. So whilst I’m taking on board what you say, when I know you’re not listening to me I wonder whether it’s worth the effort.
> Hey! Are you sick? We're not UFO from somewere outer space, we're
> human beenings with our own hearts, own souls, own minds. Mostly
> we're cristians, some are jew, some are moslem, some people are
Ø heathen from ancient times.
Yeah, I know; sorry about that. I tend to get rather flippant when annoyed. However, there are numerous confirmed reports of Russian military selling their equipment to Chechen rebels in order to supplement their pay.
>
> Are you really think that everyone here is killing, raping or
> destroying? Do you think that if I know your language that I've been
Ø studying it in KGB?
Oh for fu....no. No I don’t, and what’s more you’re being stunningly dishonest in claiming that was the implication. However, I do think that huge numbers of the Russian military in Chechnya are doing exactly that.
Incidentally, the KGB no longer exists. Are you sure you’re Russian?
>
> Ok... So please can you count those who had been killed in
> Jugoslavia, Afganistan, Iraq and so on by NATO troops? We have a
> proverb that tells: "He finds a particle of dust in my eye, but
Ø he can't find a log in his own".
Must lose something in the translation, but we have a similar one “He can’t see the wood for the trees”. And as I think the war in Iraq was entirely unjustified, I’m not overly happy about the civilian deaths there. The Afghan war I understand as a retributive measure for 9/11. Doesn’t mean I like that either. The much overdue Yugoslavian intervention I also understand; maybe if the Serbs, Croats, Muslims, and Albanians had been a little more like you and your friends then it wouldn’t have been necessary.
So to be absolutely clear; I believe the Iraq war will cause just as many tragedies as the Chechen Wars have done.
>
> I don't believe in bad nations but I do belive that there're a lot of
Ø bad people. If you were here I could show and prove it to you.
Well...as it happens I don’t believe in bad people. I believe people do bad things. And a lot of military are doing very bad things, just as a few Chechen terrorists do equally bad and worse things.
>
> And in Chechnya there is no civil war now. War is over. Chechens won
> the Russian Federation Football Cup. There're a small fanatic groups
> of terrorists who crash airplanes, destroy houses with sleeping
> families, capture children as hostages... If you can't see this than
Ø I can't see what is your confession. I call mine humanism.
Right...over. That must be why the Russian-installed president of Chechnya was assassinated, yeah? And why people are disappearing on a weekly basis, and never being heard from again? And why Amnesty list it as a blackspot for torture committed by both troops and terrorists? Winning a football match doesn’t end a war.
Of course, I’ve answered all of this on the basis you’re being genuine. If you’re just trolling, then I suppose I’ve wasted my time.
Revolver wrote:
> monkey_man wrote:
> it has all the hallmarks of a mini 9/11.
> monkey_man wrote:
> it has all the hallmarks of a mini 9/11.
Revolver, I think most people here have a brain enough to distinguish between individual and state actions.
I don't hate Russians, I don't hate Chechens. I condemn anyone who does anything vile, whether they be Russian or Chechen or bleeding Mexican, Christian, Jew or Muslim.
Your point about not knowing anything about Russia is like saying we're not allowed to comment on Nazi Germany (NOT comparing modern Russia to Nazi Germany, it's an example) because we don't know Wagner inside-out and can't speak fluent German. I know somethings of your nation, of your artists and poets, and your history, but that's completely irrelevant, UNLESS the history itself has a direct impact on what you're discussing.
Your second post, about double standards.........I think again, most people with brains aren't. They simply aren't stupid enough. You'll find Iraq is a hotly discussed topic, which is widely condemned, Northern Ireland is less of a topic, but only because there has been a massive decline in anything happeneing there, although I'm sure there's stuff still happening - and a lot of Northern Irish want to stay with Britain - perhaps there are Chechens who want to stay with Russia, just they don't get reported on. Spain and Barcelona isn't really a point at all!
I don't hate Russians, I don't hate Chechens. I condemn anyone who does anything vile, whether they be Russian or Chechen or bleeding Mexican, Christian, Jew or Muslim.
Your point about not knowing anything about Russia is like saying we're not allowed to comment on Nazi Germany (NOT comparing modern Russia to Nazi Germany, it's an example) because we don't know Wagner inside-out and can't speak fluent German. I know somethings of your nation, of your artists and poets, and your history, but that's completely irrelevant, UNLESS the history itself has a direct impact on what you're discussing.
Your second post, about double standards.........I think again, most people with brains aren't. They simply aren't stupid enough. You'll find Iraq is a hotly discussed topic, which is widely condemned, Northern Ireland is less of a topic, but only because there has been a massive decline in anything happeneing there, although I'm sure there's stuff still happening - and a lot of Northern Irish want to stay with Britain - perhaps there are Chechens who want to stay with Russia, just they don't get reported on. Spain and Barcelona isn't really a point at all!
monkey_man wrote:
> Oh yeah, and it was tragic and stuff, but looking at the overall
> picture of how the two countries get along, the Russian stranglehold
> over Chechyna, widespread abuse of an even poorer nation than Russia,
> it has all the hallmarks of a mini 9/11.
Stranglehold over Chechnya? Even if it is so, let's talk a little bit about UK's stranglehold over Nothern Ireland? USA's stranglehold over Iraq? Canada's stranglehold over Quebec? Spain's stranglehold over Barcelona?
Ohhh... I see... Double standards...
Be honest with yourselves - you just don't think about Russian people as your neighbours or friends, but as a most dangerous enemy. Fear leads to anger, anger makes you hate.
But there's absolutely nothing to be afraid of. Now we have a presiden whome we trust. We have new economics. We have new attitude to all the world. And we are not poor. Come and see. I'll meet anyone of you as a friend though you think of me as a third class guy.
> Oh yeah, and it was tragic and stuff, but looking at the overall
> picture of how the two countries get along, the Russian stranglehold
> over Chechyna, widespread abuse of an even poorer nation than Russia,
> it has all the hallmarks of a mini 9/11.
Stranglehold over Chechnya? Even if it is so, let's talk a little bit about UK's stranglehold over Nothern Ireland? USA's stranglehold over Iraq? Canada's stranglehold over Quebec? Spain's stranglehold over Barcelona?
Ohhh... I see... Double standards...
Be honest with yourselves - you just don't think about Russian people as your neighbours or friends, but as a most dangerous enemy. Fear leads to anger, anger makes you hate.
But there's absolutely nothing to be afraid of. Now we have a presiden whome we trust. We have new economics. We have new attitude to all the world. And we are not poor. Come and see. I'll meet anyone of you as a friend though you think of me as a third class guy.
Light wrote:
> Revolver wrote:
> Ah, so you're one of those people really willing to debate then?
Yes, I want to discuss many terrible things that go on and on in my country. But I can't understand why do you hate us?
Have you seen child's eyes while he melts like a snow under the arms fire?
Beslan is a tragedy and it could be yours.
I'm working in Moscow as an engineer, never had hate or fierce to any of nations, living in my country. For example my boss is tatar (Moslem), people I talk with as close friends are armenian, georgian, ukrain, kazakhstan, uzbek... Some of my friends live in USA, Germany. I studied with guys from Ghana, Middle East, China, India... And we are all friends till now.
We all live together, respect interests and traditions of each other. And I'm not fully russian, my grandmother is hungarian. My grandgrandfather was an officer of Emperior's Army.
So how I can tell you this if know absolutely nothing about Russia but you believe any word from newspapers? Have you read any book in Russian? Do you know any Russian poet or writer? Do you know the great history of my country?
> Or "I say this and I will jam my fingers into my ears in order
> ignore any response".
So I ask you to get out your fingers out of your ears and try to listen to a man with a different opinion.
> Jesus, if you're representative of the russian army, no wonder you're
> getting slowly ground down in Chechnya; "I will not listen to
> those orders stating the rebels hold positions around our camp! I do
> not believe them! Now go Oleg, and sell another tank to some of the
> other groups of rebels so that we may eat tonight..."
Hey! Are you sick? We're not UFO from somewere outer space, we're human beenings with our own hearts, own souls, own minds. Mostly we're cristians, some are jew, some are moslem, some people are heathen from ancient times.
Are you really think that everyone here is killing, raping or destroying? Do you think that if I know your language that I've been studying it in KGB?
> For the record, the hostage taking murderers are excrement given
> human form. And so are the Russians who commit atrocities in
> Chechnya. Simple really...
Ok... So please can you count those who had been killed in Jugoslavia, Afganistan, Iraq and so on by NATO troops? We have a proverb that tells: "He finds a particle of dust in my eye, but he can't find a log in his own".
I don't believe in bad nations but I do belive that there're a lot of bad people. If you were here I could show and prove it to you.
And in Chechnya there is no civil war now. War is over. Chechens won the Russian Federation Football Cup. There're a small fanatic groups of terrorists who crash airplanes, destroy houses with sleeping families, capture children as hostages... If you can't see this than I can't see what is your confession. I call mine humanism.
> Revolver wrote:
> Ah, so you're one of those people really willing to debate then?
Yes, I want to discuss many terrible things that go on and on in my country. But I can't understand why do you hate us?
Have you seen child's eyes while he melts like a snow under the arms fire?
Beslan is a tragedy and it could be yours.
I'm working in Moscow as an engineer, never had hate or fierce to any of nations, living in my country. For example my boss is tatar (Moslem), people I talk with as close friends are armenian, georgian, ukrain, kazakhstan, uzbek... Some of my friends live in USA, Germany. I studied with guys from Ghana, Middle East, China, India... And we are all friends till now.
We all live together, respect interests and traditions of each other. And I'm not fully russian, my grandmother is hungarian. My grandgrandfather was an officer of Emperior's Army.
So how I can tell you this if know absolutely nothing about Russia but you believe any word from newspapers? Have you read any book in Russian? Do you know any Russian poet or writer? Do you know the great history of my country?
> Or "I say this and I will jam my fingers into my ears in order
> ignore any response".
So I ask you to get out your fingers out of your ears and try to listen to a man with a different opinion.
> Jesus, if you're representative of the russian army, no wonder you're
> getting slowly ground down in Chechnya; "I will not listen to
> those orders stating the rebels hold positions around our camp! I do
> not believe them! Now go Oleg, and sell another tank to some of the
> other groups of rebels so that we may eat tonight..."
Hey! Are you sick? We're not UFO from somewere outer space, we're human beenings with our own hearts, own souls, own minds. Mostly we're cristians, some are jew, some are moslem, some people are heathen from ancient times.
Are you really think that everyone here is killing, raping or destroying? Do you think that if I know your language that I've been studying it in KGB?
> For the record, the hostage taking murderers are excrement given
> human form. And so are the Russians who commit atrocities in
> Chechnya. Simple really...
Ok... So please can you count those who had been killed in Jugoslavia, Afganistan, Iraq and so on by NATO troops? We have a proverb that tells: "He finds a particle of dust in my eye, but he can't find a log in his own".
I don't believe in bad nations but I do belive that there're a lot of bad people. If you were here I could show and prove it to you.
And in Chechnya there is no civil war now. War is over. Chechens won the Russian Federation Football Cup. There're a small fanatic groups of terrorists who crash airplanes, destroy houses with sleeping families, capture children as hostages... If you can't see this than I can't see what is your confession. I call mine humanism.
cookie monster wrote:
> I thought the ITN coverage was superior, at least they had a guy
> actually in the school reporting what exactly was going on.
That was Ted Maul, wasn't it? The ITN coverage was dreadful, practically verging on Dail Mail levels of panicking and screaming "think of the children!!1", instead of consulting the crack team of ex-SAS soldiers, military experts and Russian ambassadors that the BBC and Sky News managed to dig out of nowhere.
I saw some footage of one of the funerals the other day, and it was almost like watching Brass Eye. Woman was holding a framed picture of her son under an umbrella, and the reporter was like "She can protect the image of her dead son, but she can no longer protect the boy himself" - pure Morris.
Oh yeah, and it was tragic and stuff, but looking at the overall picture of how the two countries get along, the Russian stranglehold over Chechyna, widespread abuse of an even poorer nation than Russia, it has all the hallmarks of a mini 9/11.
> I thought the ITN coverage was superior, at least they had a guy
> actually in the school reporting what exactly was going on.
That was Ted Maul, wasn't it? The ITN coverage was dreadful, practically verging on Dail Mail levels of panicking and screaming "think of the children!!1", instead of consulting the crack team of ex-SAS soldiers, military experts and Russian ambassadors that the BBC and Sky News managed to dig out of nowhere.
I saw some footage of one of the funerals the other day, and it was almost like watching Brass Eye. Woman was holding a framed picture of her son under an umbrella, and the reporter was like "She can protect the image of her dead son, but she can no longer protect the boy himself" - pure Morris.
Oh yeah, and it was tragic and stuff, but looking at the overall picture of how the two countries get along, the Russian stranglehold over Chechyna, widespread abuse of an even poorer nation than Russia, it has all the hallmarks of a mini 9/11.
Revolver wrote:
> You can say anything but I wouldn't believe that russian troops
> killed over 20000 - 120000 civilians.
Ah, so you're one of those people really willing to debate then?
>
> You can believe me, you can not, truth will stay the same.
Or "I say this and I will jam my fingers into my ears in order ignore any response".
Jesus, if you're representative of the russian army, no wonder you're getting slowly ground down in Chechnya; "I will not listen to those orders stating the rebels hold positions around our camp! I do not believe them! Now go Oleg, and sell another tank to some of the other groups of rebels so that we may eat tonight..."
For the record, the hostage taking murderers are excrement given human form. And so are the Russians who commit atrocities in Chechnya. Simple really...
> You can say anything but I wouldn't believe that russian troops
> killed over 20000 - 120000 civilians.
Ah, so you're one of those people really willing to debate then?
>
> You can believe me, you can not, truth will stay the same.
Or "I say this and I will jam my fingers into my ears in order ignore any response".
Jesus, if you're representative of the russian army, no wonder you're getting slowly ground down in Chechnya; "I will not listen to those orders stating the rebels hold positions around our camp! I do not believe them! Now go Oleg, and sell another tank to some of the other groups of rebels so that we may eat tonight..."
For the record, the hostage taking murderers are excrement given human form. And so are the Russians who commit atrocities in Chechnya. Simple really...
Skarra wrote:
> Well the overwhelming majority of the people who heard this brain
> fart agreed with it, and the War on Terror isn't really unpopular oer
> there is it, especially as most Americans are still post 9/11
> paranoid? So i'd say many Americans do feel the same as the fellow
> who made the remark in the first place.
...in other words, they support the war on terror cos they are lied to about it and believe those lies.
As to it "not being unpopular over there", I'd say you're being rather blinkered; you're ignoring the fact that well over half the voting population of the US DON'T support Dubya and his war on terror. So I'll ask again; by saying that the words of one American represent the whole nation, aren't you being equally as ridiculous as those people who say that the whole nation is full of dimwits?
> Well the overwhelming majority of the people who heard this brain
> fart agreed with it, and the War on Terror isn't really unpopular oer
> there is it, especially as most Americans are still post 9/11
> paranoid? So i'd say many Americans do feel the same as the fellow
> who made the remark in the first place.
...in other words, they support the war on terror cos they are lied to about it and believe those lies.
As to it "not being unpopular over there", I'd say you're being rather blinkered; you're ignoring the fact that well over half the voting population of the US DON'T support Dubya and his war on terror. So I'll ask again; by saying that the words of one American represent the whole nation, aren't you being equally as ridiculous as those people who say that the whole nation is full of dimwits?
Thomas Hamilton was a lone Sociopath. The Chechens are a group of people who believe they are fighting for a just cause, and will fight using desperate and seemingly horrific methods. Just like the IRA.
Though the consequences are the same, they are very different things.
Though the consequences are the same, they are very different things.
Goatboy wrote:
> Let's be honest here, weepy citizens - In 2 weeks time, you'll have
> forgotten about this.
>
> The media will have used every pic of weeping children and screaming
> adults they can find and will fly off to seek out new atrocities to
> show a hungry public.
> The public will forget all about this "shocking horror" and
> become as docile and stupid as ever being told darkies and bummers
> are coming to move into their kitchen and bumcrime their white
> christian children.
>
> It's this sudden and chest-holding shock and outrage at a country
> that has been involved in similar (but not as media hard-on) things
> for a long time that makes me angry. "But the children! Children
> in a gym!"
> Right, so no kids are being butchered in Zimbabwe then? No kids are
> still being killed in Serbia by snipers then? No kids are being
> starved to death in Iraq 18months after a successful invasion then?
>
> Yes it's sad, yes it's wrong.
> But it's nothing new and will continue to happen.
>
> Shut up and enjoy your lottery/gameshow/soap opera/John Grisham
> thriller.
It won't be forgotten.
The atrocity that happened in a Dunblane School 10 years ago now, when Thomas Hamiltn walked into a school, pulled out a gun and shot 18 children still hasn't been forgotten.
10 times more children have been killed here, and over double that overall.
Exactly how will this be forgotten?
> Let's be honest here, weepy citizens - In 2 weeks time, you'll have
> forgotten about this.
>
> The media will have used every pic of weeping children and screaming
> adults they can find and will fly off to seek out new atrocities to
> show a hungry public.
> The public will forget all about this "shocking horror" and
> become as docile and stupid as ever being told darkies and bummers
> are coming to move into their kitchen and bumcrime their white
> christian children.
>
> It's this sudden and chest-holding shock and outrage at a country
> that has been involved in similar (but not as media hard-on) things
> for a long time that makes me angry. "But the children! Children
> in a gym!"
> Right, so no kids are being butchered in Zimbabwe then? No kids are
> still being killed in Serbia by snipers then? No kids are being
> starved to death in Iraq 18months after a successful invasion then?
>
> Yes it's sad, yes it's wrong.
> But it's nothing new and will continue to happen.
>
> Shut up and enjoy your lottery/gameshow/soap opera/John Grisham
> thriller.
It won't be forgotten.
The atrocity that happened in a Dunblane School 10 years ago now, when Thomas Hamiltn walked into a school, pulled out a gun and shot 18 children still hasn't been forgotten.
10 times more children have been killed here, and over double that overall.
Exactly how will this be forgotten?
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