The "General Games Chat" forum, which includes Retro Game Reviews, has been archived and is now read-only. You cannot post here or create a new thread or review on this forum.
Everybody who likes computer games and plays them gets frustrated. Many a game dos it but does it really need to be.
Frustration occurs when you powerless to do anything such as the flower in Smash Brothers get caught in that and there is no escape. It also occurs when you lose at the same place all the time this usually occurs during pin point jumping scenes.
Unfairness where no matter how hard you try you always lose miserably is also a cause of Frustration.
Do game developers need to do it? Surley there isn't need for perfect jumping scenes. Can they make a section that is hard but still not unfair?
I believe they can. Conker is a killer example although fairly short it is also a nasty frustrating and madly unfair game and trust me it would of been thrown across the room several times befor you finnish and i though Donkey Kong was bad.
Frustration ruins a game. Donkey Kong is excellent but that awkward Arcade game and Stupidly hard missions to finnish in short spaces of time ruined the end of what was my most anticipated game on the N64. Same with No Mercy which is a dream of a game but that deleating problem and the fact you can go about 5 minuites while they pound and constantly reverse your moves made me at times hate the game.
Can Devlopers die down the frustration used in their games could THQ make it harder and less likly to reverse moves making it seem less frustrating?
Frustration isn't healthy. Zelda has never got me frustrated but I wouldn't call it an easy game but a bloody excellent one.
Lets campaign against frustration and the unfairness in games.
Heres to the future
Dringo (Whoknows)
Frustration occurs when you powerless to do anything such as the flower in Smash Brothers get caught in that and there is no escape. It also occurs when you lose at the same place all the time this usually occurs during pin point jumping scenes.
Unfairness where no matter how hard you try you always lose miserably is also a cause of Frustration.
Do game developers need to do it? Surley there isn't need for perfect jumping scenes. Can they make a section that is hard but still not unfair?
I believe they can. Conker is a killer example although fairly short it is also a nasty frustrating and madly unfair game and trust me it would of been thrown across the room several times befor you finnish and i though Donkey Kong was bad.
Frustration ruins a game. Donkey Kong is excellent but that awkward Arcade game and Stupidly hard missions to finnish in short spaces of time ruined the end of what was my most anticipated game on the N64. Same with No Mercy which is a dream of a game but that deleating problem and the fact you can go about 5 minuites while they pound and constantly reverse your moves made me at times hate the game.
Can Devlopers die down the frustration used in their games could THQ make it harder and less likly to reverse moves making it seem less frustrating?
Frustration isn't healthy. Zelda has never got me frustrated but I wouldn't call it an easy game but a bloody excellent one.
Lets campaign against frustration and the unfairness in games.
Heres to the future
Dringo (Whoknows)
Page:
Don't matter if frustration is in games if you still play it though.
Do you ever give up to complete the level or smash the controller?
Do you ever give up to complete the level or smash the controller?
Games aren't getting easier, it's just getting easier to pick up on details that are necessary to complete objectives. These days if there is only one solution to the puzzles in a game then that is counted as a bad game (for the most part) so there are plenty of opportunities to notice that "That crate seems to be hanging rather precariously over that guard" or "I bet i could walk along that wall so that I wont have to get through the barracks". Another thing is that it can be easier to identify exactly what a thing is with todays graphics so there's no more "That was a bad guy? it looked more like a power up to me!".
Where you see frustration, I see as a challenge!
It also depends on exactly what kind of frustration you're tlaking about. I find having to perform jumps to an incredible degree of accuracy can be rather frustrating, as the camera usually deceives you. That said, when you finally make it, don't you get an extraordinary sense of achievement?
If it's the frustration of constantly being beaten at No Mercy, then I agree with the others. Practice makes perfect.
I don't own DK64, but my brother does, he likes the fact that the mini games get harder as you go along, otherwise, what would be the point of playing any more than the first level?
If youre finding some games frustrating, don't play them. It's supposed to be fun, so find the games you do like.
I like the way Ai has moved on to offer a challenge, and now it even seems to learn. You can't just keep performing the same move to win anymore.
I've also noticed that in ISS2000 you can play pretty badly, but still nick a win against a superior side, also you can play a blinder, but just not be able to score, and end up losing!
The challenge of games is rising, but I agree, it's going to take you longer to reach the end than before, and you'll have to become a better player. Excellent!
It also depends on exactly what kind of frustration you're tlaking about. I find having to perform jumps to an incredible degree of accuracy can be rather frustrating, as the camera usually deceives you. That said, when you finally make it, don't you get an extraordinary sense of achievement?
If it's the frustration of constantly being beaten at No Mercy, then I agree with the others. Practice makes perfect.
I don't own DK64, but my brother does, he likes the fact that the mini games get harder as you go along, otherwise, what would be the point of playing any more than the first level?
If youre finding some games frustrating, don't play them. It's supposed to be fun, so find the games you do like.
I like the way Ai has moved on to offer a challenge, and now it even seems to learn. You can't just keep performing the same move to win anymore.
I've also noticed that in ISS2000 you can play pretty badly, but still nick a win against a superior side, also you can play a blinder, but just not be able to score, and end up losing!
The challenge of games is rising, but I agree, it's going to take you longer to reach the end than before, and you'll have to become a better player. Excellent!
Is is me or are games getting easier generally anyway?
I remember playing Elite on my old amiga years ago, and i swear it took me about three days to learn how to dock without crashing! That would never happen in a game released now, but at the time is was acceptable. When i finally managed to do it the sense of achievement i felt was huge!
Also, there are some games you feel you are never perfect at, GP3 for example, i always feel i can go that bit quicker round the lap, and that is what makes the game last for me, the feeling of success when i finally manage to shave that millisecond from a time i previously thought was unbeatable.
Whats the point of having a game with no challenges? I think the biggest challenge i had was in Goldeneye, the level where Natalia had to hack into the computer and you had to protect her while all the bad guys came along. It took me WEEKS to get that done, but the feeling i had when i finally managed it was great!
I remember playing Elite on my old amiga years ago, and i swear it took me about three days to learn how to dock without crashing! That would never happen in a game released now, but at the time is was acceptable. When i finally managed to do it the sense of achievement i felt was huge!
Also, there are some games you feel you are never perfect at, GP3 for example, i always feel i can go that bit quicker round the lap, and that is what makes the game last for me, the feeling of success when i finally manage to shave that millisecond from a time i previously thought was unbeatable.
Whats the point of having a game with no challenges? I think the biggest challenge i had was in Goldeneye, the level where Natalia had to hack into the computer and you had to protect her while all the bad guys came along. It took me WEEKS to get that done, but the feeling i had when i finally managed it was great!
OH please save this for later gronti..
Well I hate frustration itself, but then who doesn't? I agree with Dan though, the main part of a game is the challenge... Well the having fun, but after that the challenge. In No Mercy what I did was played a game or two on easy, moved onto normal for a couple of games and skipped hard and went straight onto expert. Before I played No Mercy I had played Wrestlemania 2000 so I only really had to get used to the controls again before I moved onto the harder modes. The thing I found with Wrestlemania 2000 was that "hard" mode was still too easy and that I really only had a challenge when fighting human players but with No Mercy the expert mode will block, dodge and reverse at all the right times which makes it a tough opponent. Of course the expert computer can be beaten, it's just a matter of anticipating what it will do and either avoiding it or getting your move in first.
(skip to next paragraph if you want to find out how to reverse for yourself). I found that to reverse moves you seem to have to press the same buttons as they do to do the attacks (and press block repeatedly but i'm not sure that's necessary) so when they do a weak grapple suplex you usually press up and B. Your chance to reverse seems to be affected by the attitude of both you and your opponent and the damage you have both taken.
Anyway, I don't find it frustrating when my opponent keeps reversing me because it either means i'm not varying my attacks much, i've beaten them up so badly that they are on "fight back with 100 times the usual strength and attitude" mode or that they are a weaker character and get more chance to reverse to make up for their lack of strength or toughness. The thing I like about No Mercy is that on expert mode you can't just keep punching and it seems more like a real two sided wrestling match so you get a greater sense of achievment if you win and it generally doesn't matter if you lose. Even if you fail a championship because of it you can go back through it and anyway you have to lose to do some of the paths.
In Donkey Kong 64 some people found it hard and some people found it easy. I was the latter class, but then I had played Mario 64 which is a little more challenging I found since there was more instant death than Donkey Kong 64. The thing with Donkey Kong 64 was that you often had to go back and forth when you fall off edges or fail to do an objective in the time limit but when you fell from a height you only ever lost one quarter of a melon but you had plenty of melon left since you get more melons quite quickly. Plus you could just go to a tag barrel and get all your health back anyway so really there were very few ways to die and any that there were generally only set you back about the same as if you fell off a cliff and had to climb back up at most. In Mario 64 you had to start from the start of the level again if you died and it was possible to actually be killed by the enemies without trying to be killed and when you fell you took more damage depending on the height.
The main reasons I get frustrated are usually when I press a button a second too late or too lightly or mistakenly press another button first because then I don't feel it was my fault (it was, it's just that if I was the character I wouldn't mistakenly grapple when I mean to punch or dodge when I mean to block). Another thing that frustrates me is when I can never find that darned guy/gal (or thing) who keeps killing me but when I do find them the satisfaction of showing them who's boss makes me feel much better (especially if it's a gory game, MWAHAHAHAHAHAAA).
I think that it would be better if games could be less frustrating without being easier. I mean, if you have to repeatedly go back and forth trying a jump it can get frustrating if there's absolutley nothing to make it fun every time, nothing else to do and nothing really worthwhile immediately after the jump. However, if the games maker had made it more worthwhile to make the jump or made it seem not so bad to fail the jump all the time (an amusing falling animation possibly? or maybe something you don't mind doing again) then the game would be no easier and also less frustrating.
So what we really need from games designers is more care to avoid a bit that is unnecessarily frustrating in a game without having to reduce the quality of the game by reducing the challenge.
(skip to next paragraph if you want to find out how to reverse for yourself). I found that to reverse moves you seem to have to press the same buttons as they do to do the attacks (and press block repeatedly but i'm not sure that's necessary) so when they do a weak grapple suplex you usually press up and B. Your chance to reverse seems to be affected by the attitude of both you and your opponent and the damage you have both taken.
Anyway, I don't find it frustrating when my opponent keeps reversing me because it either means i'm not varying my attacks much, i've beaten them up so badly that they are on "fight back with 100 times the usual strength and attitude" mode or that they are a weaker character and get more chance to reverse to make up for their lack of strength or toughness. The thing I like about No Mercy is that on expert mode you can't just keep punching and it seems more like a real two sided wrestling match so you get a greater sense of achievment if you win and it generally doesn't matter if you lose. Even if you fail a championship because of it you can go back through it and anyway you have to lose to do some of the paths.
In Donkey Kong 64 some people found it hard and some people found it easy. I was the latter class, but then I had played Mario 64 which is a little more challenging I found since there was more instant death than Donkey Kong 64. The thing with Donkey Kong 64 was that you often had to go back and forth when you fall off edges or fail to do an objective in the time limit but when you fell from a height you only ever lost one quarter of a melon but you had plenty of melon left since you get more melons quite quickly. Plus you could just go to a tag barrel and get all your health back anyway so really there were very few ways to die and any that there were generally only set you back about the same as if you fell off a cliff and had to climb back up at most. In Mario 64 you had to start from the start of the level again if you died and it was possible to actually be killed by the enemies without trying to be killed and when you fell you took more damage depending on the height.
The main reasons I get frustrated are usually when I press a button a second too late or too lightly or mistakenly press another button first because then I don't feel it was my fault (it was, it's just that if I was the character I wouldn't mistakenly grapple when I mean to punch or dodge when I mean to block). Another thing that frustrates me is when I can never find that darned guy/gal (or thing) who keeps killing me but when I do find them the satisfaction of showing them who's boss makes me feel much better (especially if it's a gory game, MWAHAHAHAHAHAAA).
I think that it would be better if games could be less frustrating without being easier. I mean, if you have to repeatedly go back and forth trying a jump it can get frustrating if there's absolutley nothing to make it fun every time, nothing else to do and nothing really worthwhile immediately after the jump. However, if the games maker had made it more worthwhile to make the jump or made it seem not so bad to fail the jump all the time (an amusing falling animation possibly? or maybe something you don't mind doing again) then the game would be no easier and also less frustrating.
So what we really need from games designers is more care to avoid a bit that is unnecessarily frustrating in a game without having to reduce the quality of the game by reducing the challenge.
WHAT?
Well done on your win Dringo but still...
If you find a game too hard then just play through it on the easy/medium difficulty settings and leave it there.
Don't try to pressurise companies into making games easier because if games become easier then the better gamers miss out.
There should be an easy setting for starting off the game, a medium difficulty setting for the average gamer to play through and a bloody hard and fustrating setting for people like me who thrive on the challenge.
If you don't like the hard setting then ignor it.
No one's forcing you to play through it!
Well done on your win Dringo but still...
If you find a game too hard then just play through it on the easy/medium difficulty settings and leave it there.
Don't try to pressurise companies into making games easier because if games become easier then the better gamers miss out.
There should be an easy setting for starting off the game, a medium difficulty setting for the average gamer to play through and a bloody hard and fustrating setting for people like me who thrive on the challenge.
If you don't like the hard setting then ignor it.
No one's forcing you to play through it!
get rid of Dans topic post, ignore.
Yeah please don't gloat. My time will come.....
Page: