Viewing Thread:
"Electoral Fraud"

Hello Bell,

Seeing as I don't want to turn a someone else's thread into a slanging match, I thought I'd start my own and repeat what I've said;

Please, give me your story on how Bush won the election fair and square, and I'll detail why I believe he is no more the legitimately elected president than you are a courageous debator who will always meet a challenge. Then we can let it drop. Feel free to start...

Goatboy wrote:
> Still avoiding with studied cynicism eh?
> I'll pop for you, just in case you missed it.
> Because, y'know, I wouldn't like to think you were hiding from threads
> you can't defend instead of saying "Hey, I didn't have all the
> facts" or "Actually I was mistaken, sorry"

In that same thread you linked to a poll also...

Noticeably you or Light cannot refute any of the points I made about the US 2000 election...

Still avoiding with studied cynicism eh?
I'll pop for you, just in case you missed it.
Because, y'know, I wouldn't like to think you were hiding from threads you can't defend instead of saying "Hey, I didn't have all the facts" or "Actually I was mistaken, sorry"

I said my info here. *yawns*

This is soooooooooooooooo boring. Kinda like this forum....

That's right.
What was the link to the Centrifuge? Or the Gallup Poll about popularity?

Glass houses and all that

My info here is from good old fashioned books, not a website link that anyone on the planet can create. Books are good, you kind of have to convince someone you can write before having one, unlike websites where every loony tune out there has one for their own little cause...

Practical Magic wrote:
> Yes, very good, but, as you've previously criticised me for posting
> links and little else, what do you actually know yourself,
---

As soon as you have the honour and decency to reply to the topic I've been waiting for a response for (no doubt you'll ask me to pop it), then I shall in kind return the favour of answering you.

And I'd also like to point out that a person that posted a "Who's sick of this" thread, and then proceeds to post after post after post in areas he feels he's well-versed on - is ironic in the extreme.

Thank god for Google eh?

Practical Magic wrote:
> and why all those sites mentioning Bush's campaign
> are free of Democrat shenanigans in trying to rig results.


If you don't mind me cutting in,

I'd say it was because:

1) It was done to a much less corrupt extent.

2) The democrats didn't win, so there's less interest, it's not a president 'stealing an election'.

3) If you take the estimated vote-gain of each side's tricks and balance an overall result, you still get a (relativey) comfortable Democrat win.

4) The info isn't concerned with the Democrats. It's a seperate subject (though admittedly related).

5) The people who write it are strongly anti-Bush, and showing the alternative to have the same corrupt flaws, even if to a lesser extent, takes the edge off their rant.
Yep, like everyone else, they have an agenda and a bias.

Goatboy wrote:
> http://pub50.ezboard.com/
> faxisofjusticefrm8.showMessage?topicID=65.topic
>
> http://www.gregpalast.com/
> columns.cfm?subject_id=1&subject_name=Theft%20of%20 Presidency

Yes, very good, but, as you've previously criticised me for posting links and little else, what do you actually know yourself, as in explain how the Supreme Court firstly makes it's 5-4 ruling, and then it's 7-2 ruling, and why all those sites mentioning Bush's campaign are free of Democrat shenanigans in trying to rig results. Light's gone away to form an opinion, you didn't believe I'd reply, so how about looking at those points yourself ? Just a thought.

To summarise Goatboy's links:

Quotes from Link 1

3 - Governor Jeb Bush "illegally ordered the removal of the names of
felons from voter rolls - real felons who had served time but
obtained clemency, with the right to vote under Florida law. As a
result, ANOTHER 40,000 legal voters (in addition to the 57,700 on
the purge list), almost all of them Democrats, could not vote."
[page 14]


From page 43: "How did the governor's game play at the ballot box?
Jeb Bush's operation denied over 50,000 citizens their right to
vote. Given that 80 percent of registered voters actually cast
ballots in the presidential election, at least 40,000 votes were
lost. By whom? As 90 percent or more of this targeted group, out
of state ex-cons, votes Democratic, we can confidently state that
this little twist in the voter purge cost Al Gore a good 30,000
votes." Incidentally, Florida is one of the few states that includes
party and race on voter registration files.


James Lee, vice president of ChoicePoint, called Palast at the BBC
studios and told him that the state "wanted there to be more names
than were actually verified as being a convicted felon." In a
special hearing before Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, Lee
elaborated on the matter, essentially fingering the state. "The
state had given DBT the truly insane directive to add to the purge
list people who matched 90 percent of a last name - if Anderson
committed a crime, Andersen lost his vote." Names were reversed,
middle initials were and suffixes (Jr., Sr., etc.) were ignored.


Link 2

The biggest wholesale theft occurred inside the voting booths in
black rural counties. In Gadsden County, one of the blackest in
the state, thousands of votes were simply thrown away. Gadsden used
paper ballots which are read by an optical reader. Ballots with a
single extra mark were considered “spoiled“ and not counted. The
buttons used to fill out the ballots were set up – with approval
from Bush and Harris – to make votes appear unclear to the machine.
One in eight ballots in Gadsden was voided by the state.

The same ballots were used in Tallahassee County, which is mostly
white. There only one in 100 votes was “spoiled.” What made the
difference? In Tallahassee, ballots were read on the premises, and
if they were marked incorrectly, voters were sent to revote until
they got it right. In the black counties, the votes were trucked off
immediately. There were no machines on site. Voters weren’t told that
their votes were spoiled, and they certainly weren’t permitted to
re-vote.

It wasn’t reported in mainstream press, but the NAACP sued Harris
and the gang for the black purge, and won. The state threw up its
hands immediately and said, ‘You got us! We’ll put these people
back as soon as we can.’ We’re still waiting.




By the looks of things the Democrats were pretty devious too. Didn't seem *as* bad, mainly because they didn't seem to have done anything so calculated, or illegal.
May also explain why Gore didn't press things further too. Along his reason of 'not wanting to drag it out blah blah' and everyone else's reason that the only people he could turn to (Sup. Court) were pikey Republicans who'd have shot him down for their own agenda.
Even if he could have exposed Bush's trickey, he'd have to have shown his own too. Which would kind of bring down America's whole political system.

Ah well, I'm now more convinced than ever of the illegitimacy of Bush's presidency, but also doubtful of the legitimacy of a Democrat rule too.

I never took the stereotypical conspiratorial political underground very seriously before. I also figured politicans kind of had an unfair image.

How naive I was.

http://pub50.ezboard.com/ faxisofjusticefrm8.showMessage?topicID=65.topic

http://www.gregpalast.com/ columns.cfm?subject_id=1&subject_name=Theft%20of%20 Presidency