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i think that God created us!
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people say god is jesuses dad so gods either a alien one of the farm animals or some old tramp.
vote now....
vote now....
Solipsism - I am the world.
Definitely the case.
Definitely the case.
Pantheism:
God is Nature.
Nature evolves.
What is God?
The creational spark which drives existence.
What is existence?
The evolution of God.
Pantheism.
Could be the case?
God is Nature.
Nature evolves.
What is God?
The creational spark which drives existence.
What is existence?
The evolution of God.
Pantheism.
Could be the case?
Evolution rocks. Especially the bit with the black and white moths.
Jonathan Nash wrote:
> How is anyone going to explain to me that this magnificent little
> thing came about completely by chance? It's how I feel about all
> creation. I fail to believe that the wonders around each day, just
> happened.
I'll have a pop:
> Dr. Hermann Schildknecht, a German chemist, studied the bombardier
> beetle and learned the beetle makes his explosives by mixing two very
> dangerous chemicals (hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide).
2 very dangerous chemicals. I think it's safe to say that just squiting hydrogen peroxide would be unpleasant for the receiving face. Thus a beetle which can do that has a better chance of survival, reproduction and passing on its genes to a new generation, than a beetle that can't.
Then some beetle develops genes to naturally includes the inhibitor. Just by chance. Doesn't help much, there's nothing to inhibit anyway, but it does no harm either, so the bettle survives well enough as it is.
Next step - one of the beetles develops genes to mix in the other chemical, hydroquinone. The inhibitor is there, so it doesn't blow up yet, but with another chemical, unpleasant enough on its own, to squirt at predators' faces, it has another weapon to give it a better chance of survival.
Then the big break-through, a beetle is born which squirts another chemical out of its butt, the anti-inhibitor. When the two concoctions mix, they become even more unpleasant, and give the beetle far greater protection against predators, and better chances of passing its genes to many more generations of beetles.
Of course, the other factors you mentioned (the ignition chamber, aiming, timing etc.) would have just developed gradually, improving every so often when new genes are introduced.
And since this happens slowly, over many millions of years, it doesn't seem so implausable.
Of course, this may not have been the precise order, but it shows that the developments could reasonably have happened in the course of evolution, whatever their particular order or timing.
So, in my opinion, the babel fish argument falls down.
(And even if it didn't, Adams shows it proves the non-existence of God ;^) )
> How is anyone going to explain to me that this magnificent little
> thing came about completely by chance? It's how I feel about all
> creation. I fail to believe that the wonders around each day, just
> happened.
I'll have a pop:
> Dr. Hermann Schildknecht, a German chemist, studied the bombardier
> beetle and learned the beetle makes his explosives by mixing two very
> dangerous chemicals (hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide).
2 very dangerous chemicals. I think it's safe to say that just squiting hydrogen peroxide would be unpleasant for the receiving face. Thus a beetle which can do that has a better chance of survival, reproduction and passing on its genes to a new generation, than a beetle that can't.
Then some beetle develops genes to naturally includes the inhibitor. Just by chance. Doesn't help much, there's nothing to inhibit anyway, but it does no harm either, so the bettle survives well enough as it is.
Next step - one of the beetles develops genes to mix in the other chemical, hydroquinone. The inhibitor is there, so it doesn't blow up yet, but with another chemical, unpleasant enough on its own, to squirt at predators' faces, it has another weapon to give it a better chance of survival.
Then the big break-through, a beetle is born which squirts another chemical out of its butt, the anti-inhibitor. When the two concoctions mix, they become even more unpleasant, and give the beetle far greater protection against predators, and better chances of passing its genes to many more generations of beetles.
Of course, the other factors you mentioned (the ignition chamber, aiming, timing etc.) would have just developed gradually, improving every so often when new genes are introduced.
And since this happens slowly, over many millions of years, it doesn't seem so implausable.
Of course, this may not have been the precise order, but it shows that the developments could reasonably have happened in the course of evolution, whatever their particular order or timing.
So, in my opinion, the babel fish argument falls down.
(And even if it didn't, Adams shows it proves the non-existence of God ;^) )
Skorp1on wrote:
> who is to say that
> we are the best? Without technology, we would be very weak, and would
> more likely be prey than predator.
But you're assuming that everyone plays by our rules/morals/ideas. Why can't an alien race have no concept of war? What if they invented space travel first because they weren't spending time inventing weapons? On this planet we tend to create new technology from wars, but there are many other factors that push technical limitations.
> who is to say that
> we are the best? Without technology, we would be very weak, and would
> more likely be prey than predator.
But you're assuming that everyone plays by our rules/morals/ideas. Why can't an alien race have no concept of war? What if they invented space travel first because they weren't spending time inventing weapons? On this planet we tend to create new technology from wars, but there are many other factors that push technical limitations.
If there is a God, what is it/he/her? I'm fed up of people telling me it's some old guy floating around in space or something, if he is every where, how does he make these things (eg. the bombadier beetle) and how has he/it/her created matter? He must have made it from something, but there is nothing to make it from, did he/her/it just make it appear? It puts the religious theory back to square 1, where did the matter come from, and for that matter (no pun intented) God.
Many people have not been able to answer a lot of the questions we have discussed, and simply came to the conclusion that it was God. A bit like that episode of the Simpsons when Xena is answering questions and cannot explain why something happened, and so said "every time something happens that you don't understand, or should not happen, a wizard did it".
Also, if there is a God, who is an entity and can think, we are probably fairly insignificant to him/her/it. Think of how much there is around you, on Earth, in our solar system, our galaxy and the Universe, surely there must be life out there somewhere, and even on our planet, although we are the dominant species, who is to say that we are the best? Without technology, we would be very weak, and would more likely be prey than predator.
Many people have not been able to answer a lot of the questions we have discussed, and simply came to the conclusion that it was God. A bit like that episode of the Simpsons when Xena is answering questions and cannot explain why something happened, and so said "every time something happens that you don't understand, or should not happen, a wizard did it".
Also, if there is a God, who is an entity and can think, we are probably fairly insignificant to him/her/it. Think of how much there is around you, on Earth, in our solar system, our galaxy and the Universe, surely there must be life out there somewhere, and even on our planet, although we are the dominant species, who is to say that we are the best? Without technology, we would be very weak, and would more likely be prey than predator.
mikelar wrote:
> Dr Duck wrote:
> Hedfix wrote:
> Prepare to be worried.
>
> One theory suggests we are merely cells banding together inorder to
> survive nothing more nothing less.
>
> Nice thought eh?
>
>
> You could say the same thing of society.
> With people, not cells. Obviously.
>
> I think thats what he originally meant.
No I didn't.
I have a similar theory that each cell/atom/quark could somehow be a mini universe. Eat that Matrix!
> Dr Duck wrote:
> Hedfix wrote:
> Prepare to be worried.
>
> One theory suggests we are merely cells banding together inorder to
> survive nothing more nothing less.
>
> Nice thought eh?
>
>
> You could say the same thing of society.
> With people, not cells. Obviously.
>
> I think thats what he originally meant.
No I didn't.
I have a similar theory that each cell/atom/quark could somehow be a mini universe. Eat that Matrix!
As Pastor Richards rightly says if you don't have a good credit rating go scr&w yourself, you'll burn in hell.
This explains perfectly what I feel about evolution and creation. Take the case of the bombardier beetle.
When ever threatened the bombardier shoots out a noxious gas which are at 212 degrees F, out from two tail pipes right into the face of the would be aggressor.
Dr. Hermann Schildknecht, a German chemist, studied the bombardier beetle and learned the beetle makes his explosives by mixing two very dangerous chemicals (hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide).
This clever little beetle also adds another type of chemical known as an inhibitor. The inhibitor prevents the chemicals from blowing up and enables the beetle to store them indefinitely.
Whenever our little beetle friend is attacked (e.g. by a frog) he squirts the stored chemicals into the two combustion tubes, and at precisely the right moment he adds another chemical (an anti-inhibitor). This knocks out the inhibitor, and a small but violent explosion occurs right in the face of the poor attacker.
Now could this marvellous and complex mechanism have evolved over millions of years? The evolutionist sheepishly responds "yes."
According to evolutionary "thinking" there must have been thousands of generations of beetles improperly mixing these hazardous chemicals in fatal evolutionary experiments, blowing themselves to pieces!
Eventually we are assured, they arrived at the magic formula, but what about the development of the inhibitor?
There is no need to involve the inhibitor unless you already have the two chemicals you are trying to inhibit. On the other hand, if you have the two chemicals, without the inhibitor, it is already too late, for you have just blown yourself up! Obviously, such an arrangement would never arise apart from intelligent foresight and planning. Nevertheless, let's assume that our little beetle friend somehow managed to simultaneously develop the two chemicals along with the all important inhibitor. This solution would be no benefit at all, for it would just sit there as a harmless concoction.
To be of any value to the beetle, the anti-inhibitor must be added to the solution. So, once again, for thousands of generations we are supposed to believe that these poor beetles mixed and stored these chemicals for no particular reason or advantage; until finally, the anti-inhibitor was perfected. Now he is really getting somewhere! With the anti-inhibitor developed he can now blow himself to pieces, frustrating the efforts of the hungry predator! Ah yes, he still needs to evolve the two combustion tubes, and a precision communications and timing network to control and adjust the critical direction and timing of the explosive.
How is anyone going to explain to me that this magnificent little thing came about completely by chance? It's how I feel about all creation. I fail to believe that the wonders around each day, just happened.
When ever threatened the bombardier shoots out a noxious gas which are at 212 degrees F, out from two tail pipes right into the face of the would be aggressor.
Dr. Hermann Schildknecht, a German chemist, studied the bombardier beetle and learned the beetle makes his explosives by mixing two very dangerous chemicals (hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide).
This clever little beetle also adds another type of chemical known as an inhibitor. The inhibitor prevents the chemicals from blowing up and enables the beetle to store them indefinitely.
Whenever our little beetle friend is attacked (e.g. by a frog) he squirts the stored chemicals into the two combustion tubes, and at precisely the right moment he adds another chemical (an anti-inhibitor). This knocks out the inhibitor, and a small but violent explosion occurs right in the face of the poor attacker.
Now could this marvellous and complex mechanism have evolved over millions of years? The evolutionist sheepishly responds "yes."
According to evolutionary "thinking" there must have been thousands of generations of beetles improperly mixing these hazardous chemicals in fatal evolutionary experiments, blowing themselves to pieces!
Eventually we are assured, they arrived at the magic formula, but what about the development of the inhibitor?
There is no need to involve the inhibitor unless you already have the two chemicals you are trying to inhibit. On the other hand, if you have the two chemicals, without the inhibitor, it is already too late, for you have just blown yourself up! Obviously, such an arrangement would never arise apart from intelligent foresight and planning. Nevertheless, let's assume that our little beetle friend somehow managed to simultaneously develop the two chemicals along with the all important inhibitor. This solution would be no benefit at all, for it would just sit there as a harmless concoction.
To be of any value to the beetle, the anti-inhibitor must be added to the solution. So, once again, for thousands of generations we are supposed to believe that these poor beetles mixed and stored these chemicals for no particular reason or advantage; until finally, the anti-inhibitor was perfected. Now he is really getting somewhere! With the anti-inhibitor developed he can now blow himself to pieces, frustrating the efforts of the hungry predator! Ah yes, he still needs to evolve the two combustion tubes, and a precision communications and timing network to control and adjust the critical direction and timing of the explosive.
How is anyone going to explain to me that this magnificent little thing came about completely by chance? It's how I feel about all creation. I fail to believe that the wonders around each day, just happened.
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