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We live in a physical world, of physical properties. The physical world is ruled by physical laws. Humans are physical beings, therefore we can never experience freedom.
Ta-da!
Ta-da!
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No matter how you look at it, in this world, humans are not, indeed cannot, be free.
On the most obvious level, we are governed by laws of the state, which means that I cannot go out and murder someone without having my fate controlled by some other force (in this case, the police).
Next, we have religion. The Ten Commandments are also trying to govern how we run our lives. Also connected to this issue is morality, an idea that in instilled in us from birth - you mustn't do this, that or indded the other. We abide by these rules, whether to make ourselves feel better or out of genuine concern for society as a whole.
But then we come to this issue of choice. What is choice? I believe that choice is the ability to not only make a decision, but be able to make subsequent decisions after it, meaning that the law we live under doesn't give us choice. And yes, we always will have boundaries - whether they are physical boudaries (man can't fly) or mental boundaries (man cannot comprehend infinity) or others. But still, we are not told to choose this one option in most occasions - I can choose to go down street X or road Y, and in this sense we have freedom - freedom is, in my opinion, the power to make a choice out of however many options there are. You do not need to have infinite options for freedom, because no matter how few options you have, you still have choice. More options just gives you more choice, more freedom. Just because you are restricted by the options you have doesn't mean you do not have freedom - not being able to make a choice means you have no freedom. Man will never be completely free, sure - but man can always strive for freedom is terms of decision-making.
On the most obvious level, we are governed by laws of the state, which means that I cannot go out and murder someone without having my fate controlled by some other force (in this case, the police).
Next, we have religion. The Ten Commandments are also trying to govern how we run our lives. Also connected to this issue is morality, an idea that in instilled in us from birth - you mustn't do this, that or indded the other. We abide by these rules, whether to make ourselves feel better or out of genuine concern for society as a whole.
But then we come to this issue of choice. What is choice? I believe that choice is the ability to not only make a decision, but be able to make subsequent decisions after it, meaning that the law we live under doesn't give us choice. And yes, we always will have boundaries - whether they are physical boudaries (man can't fly) or mental boundaries (man cannot comprehend infinity) or others. But still, we are not told to choose this one option in most occasions - I can choose to go down street X or road Y, and in this sense we have freedom - freedom is, in my opinion, the power to make a choice out of however many options there are. You do not need to have infinite options for freedom, because no matter how few options you have, you still have choice. More options just gives you more choice, more freedom. Just because you are restricted by the options you have doesn't mean you do not have freedom - not being able to make a choice means you have no freedom. Man will never be completely free, sure - but man can always strive for freedom is terms of decision-making.
Yes, but perhaps the matrix allows the speculation that this world is not real to try and decieve us into thinking that if the matrix were real, it would not allow us to think in such a way.
BEARDS. wrote:
> You assume that the physical world is the real one. How dull.
Yes, but in the absence of proof to the contrary we have to believe this is the real physical world.
Would you have even considered the idea this wasn't, before The Matrix came out ? If you look at the fictional Matrix world the truth that it is all a simulated world is kept hidden from nearly everyone in it, therefore if this reality was false it is likely to assume that none of us would even glimpse the idea that this was not the case. If we were able to the nthat suggest that whatever created this false reality, and controls the real us, is somewhat dumb and would never have been able to create this false reality in the first place.
And after that somewhat confusing lot, I shall return to my University coursework which has to be handed in in less than 24 hours time.....
> You assume that the physical world is the real one. How dull.
Yes, but in the absence of proof to the contrary we have to believe this is the real physical world.
Would you have even considered the idea this wasn't, before The Matrix came out ? If you look at the fictional Matrix world the truth that it is all a simulated world is kept hidden from nearly everyone in it, therefore if this reality was false it is likely to assume that none of us would even glimpse the idea that this was not the case. If we were able to the nthat suggest that whatever created this false reality, and controls the real us, is somewhat dumb and would never have been able to create this false reality in the first place.
And after that somewhat confusing lot, I shall return to my University coursework which has to be handed in in less than 24 hours time.....
I guess it poses the question: How free is free-will?
For me, free-will is like a multiple-choice questionaire. There's always only a handful of possible options. In other words, there's freedom to choose, but our options are always limited.
Like you say, there's physical limitations - the laws of nature and the make-up of your genes, and there's social limitations - the culture we live in. Free-will is never 100% free.
Some people are more free than others. Compare a poverty-stricken farmer in Bulgaria to Elton John and his multi-million dollars of self-empowerment.
But having said that, the Bulgarian farmer may have a freer mental outlook. Perhaps he has a purity of spirit which doesn't desire material wealth or some cosmetic glory. Maybe he's beyond it.
Some people also have a tendency to enslave themselves.
At the end of the day it comes down to this:
Nothing else is possible but the unavoidable expression of self. If you can't - you won't. If you can - you will.
For me, free-will is like a multiple-choice questionaire. There's always only a handful of possible options. In other words, there's freedom to choose, but our options are always limited.
Like you say, there's physical limitations - the laws of nature and the make-up of your genes, and there's social limitations - the culture we live in. Free-will is never 100% free.
Some people are more free than others. Compare a poverty-stricken farmer in Bulgaria to Elton John and his multi-million dollars of self-empowerment.
But having said that, the Bulgarian farmer may have a freer mental outlook. Perhaps he has a purity of spirit which doesn't desire material wealth or some cosmetic glory. Maybe he's beyond it.
Some people also have a tendency to enslave themselves.
At the end of the day it comes down to this:
Nothing else is possible but the unavoidable expression of self. If you can't - you won't. If you can - you will.
I don't.
If there is a deeper truth, however horrifying, I'd want to know about it.
If there is a deeper truth, however horrifying, I'd want to know about it.
I CHOOSE THE MATRIX!!!!864
Freedom is Slavery
BEARDS. wrote:
> You assume that the physical world is the real one. How dull.
You going all plato/duelist on us? Or have you been watching the matrix to much?
> You assume that the physical world is the real one. How dull.
You going all plato/duelist on us? Or have you been watching the matrix to much?
What the hell!?! JATs making intelligent conversation!
*gasp*
*gasp*
You assume that the physical world is the real one. How dull.
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