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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/ middle_east/2396613.stm
And so ends the careers of the USS Cole bombers....CNN and Fox also have confirmed that these were the guys responsible.
They took lives, and now they have been stopped.
~~Belldandy~~
And so ends the careers of the USS Cole bombers....CNN and Fox also have confirmed that these were the guys responsible.
They took lives, and now they have been stopped.
~~Belldandy~~
Page:
Belldandy wrote:
The
> professionals do. I did what I could and if that isn’t good enough for
> you then tough.
No, I wasn't denegrating you for not doing "more", I am saying that you try to lump me in with "sympathisers" and use phrases like "your beloved Saddam". Because I disagree with the current course of action, does not mean I support the actions of people responsible for the deaths of civilians. But that also means I cannot support the actions of our own governments when they do the same, simply because I'm "on their side"
I'm on nobodies side except my own, trying not to get blown up from either direction.
The
> professionals do. I did what I could and if that isn’t good enough for
> you then tough.
No, I wasn't denegrating you for not doing "more", I am saying that you try to lump me in with "sympathisers" and use phrases like "your beloved Saddam". Because I disagree with the current course of action, does not mean I support the actions of people responsible for the deaths of civilians. But that also means I cannot support the actions of our own governments when they do the same, simply because I'm "on their side"
I'm on nobodies side except my own, trying not to get blown up from either direction.
No, I do respect your views and have defended you on many other points as well.
My issue is not so much with the content of this thread, but the manner in which you seem unable to understand that someone has different views to yourself.
You insist on telling somebody "You are wrong" or "rubbish", when you are not necessarily any more correct. You are correct from the corner you're coming from, just as I am from my corner.
By all means express your views, as I do mine. But I am careful to not sneer and put down other people's opinions.
What I try my hardest to do is to present what *I* feel about a subject, to explain why I feel the way I do without putting down somebody else for their beliefs and views.
I will make one thing clear: I do not sympathise, understand or support Al Queda/Bin Laden in any way whatsoever. But neither do I blindly support, sympathise or understand Blair/Bush simply because they are the figurehead of my country.
I take each situation and try to understand it to the best of my ability, and I do not foist my opinion on others. My beliefs are exactly that, *my* beliefs. Just as yours are solely for you.
Just because you believe you are correct, doesn't make it so. Neither does it make me correct simply because I think I am.
The difference is, I restrict myself to trying to explain my views and ideas instead of trying to bully everyone else into thinking the same as I do by denouncing their ideas as "rubbish"
You can never "win" in politics,because it's simply differing viewpoints. And trying to get people to change their ideas and beliefs is nigh on impossible. That's why we have to suffer stupid actions like terrorism, murder, war and all the other crap we get bogged down with.
I believe our purpose is exploration, unconditional acceptance of each other and trying to rise above petty things like the idea of nationality, patriotism and race. Because at the end of the day, and here is where I see the problem lays:
Al Queda do not see what they do as terrorism. They see it as defending their way of life.
I don't understand that, but I dont see how that's radically different to you claiming "justice" at The CIA assasinating a carload of people.
That doesn't help and will only result in t**-for-tat actions.
This planet is packed with stupid, mean hateful people on *both* sides of the coin. What we call terrorism, they call justice. What we call justice, they call terrorism.
It's retarded and I have absolutely no clue as to how to resolve it.
I just feel, personally, that murder is not the answer.
I wish I could figure it out, but until I do so - I will continue to state my beliefs as they apply to me, however many times I am labelled "sympathiser" or "commie" or any other number of names people use when someone says "Actually, I dont agree with this"
But that doesn't mean I'm right.
Can you see what I'm trying to say, you fervently believe the current course of action is correct and justified. So do these Middle Eastern groups.
You're both convinced that your way is correct and the other person is the evil terrorist.
I can't say who's right and wrong.
I do know that slamming planes into buildings is wrong. But I also know that using CIA trained and funded death squads in El Salvador is wrong.
I dont see the difference.
My issue is not so much with the content of this thread, but the manner in which you seem unable to understand that someone has different views to yourself.
You insist on telling somebody "You are wrong" or "rubbish", when you are not necessarily any more correct. You are correct from the corner you're coming from, just as I am from my corner.
By all means express your views, as I do mine. But I am careful to not sneer and put down other people's opinions.
What I try my hardest to do is to present what *I* feel about a subject, to explain why I feel the way I do without putting down somebody else for their beliefs and views.
I will make one thing clear: I do not sympathise, understand or support Al Queda/Bin Laden in any way whatsoever. But neither do I blindly support, sympathise or understand Blair/Bush simply because they are the figurehead of my country.
I take each situation and try to understand it to the best of my ability, and I do not foist my opinion on others. My beliefs are exactly that, *my* beliefs. Just as yours are solely for you.
Just because you believe you are correct, doesn't make it so. Neither does it make me correct simply because I think I am.
The difference is, I restrict myself to trying to explain my views and ideas instead of trying to bully everyone else into thinking the same as I do by denouncing their ideas as "rubbish"
You can never "win" in politics,because it's simply differing viewpoints. And trying to get people to change their ideas and beliefs is nigh on impossible. That's why we have to suffer stupid actions like terrorism, murder, war and all the other crap we get bogged down with.
I believe our purpose is exploration, unconditional acceptance of each other and trying to rise above petty things like the idea of nationality, patriotism and race. Because at the end of the day, and here is where I see the problem lays:
Al Queda do not see what they do as terrorism. They see it as defending their way of life.
I don't understand that, but I dont see how that's radically different to you claiming "justice" at The CIA assasinating a carload of people.
That doesn't help and will only result in t**-for-tat actions.
This planet is packed with stupid, mean hateful people on *both* sides of the coin. What we call terrorism, they call justice. What we call justice, they call terrorism.
It's retarded and I have absolutely no clue as to how to resolve it.
I just feel, personally, that murder is not the answer.
I wish I could figure it out, but until I do so - I will continue to state my beliefs as they apply to me, however many times I am labelled "sympathiser" or "commie" or any other number of names people use when someone says "Actually, I dont agree with this"
But that doesn't mean I'm right.
Can you see what I'm trying to say, you fervently believe the current course of action is correct and justified. So do these Middle Eastern groups.
You're both convinced that your way is correct and the other person is the evil terrorist.
I can't say who's right and wrong.
I do know that slamming planes into buildings is wrong. But I also know that using CIA trained and funded death squads in El Salvador is wrong.
I dont see the difference.
As for going to help in New York – If I could have I would have, being only 18 and not employed at the time that was rather difficult. I donated money to the liberty unites charity, and the American Red Cross, and helped with a a fundraising event in the town I live in, so I did what I could. I don’t know jack about disaster recovery, or searching through rubble, or first aid, or any of that. The professionals do. I did what I could and if that isn’t good enough for you then tough.
As for fundamentalism, you, and nobody outside of Al Queda, can truly understand their cause. You can claim to but you cannot.
And as for your assertion about the Islamic people, I have no problem with them, neither does the rest of the world. It’s the terrorists I have the problem with. They are not Islamic, they are not Muslim, they are not Christian. They are TERRORISTS. I fully understand that the legacy of colonialism, Western intervention, underdevelopment and proxy wars have left a deep mark on many countries, leading to the rise of terrorist organisations motivated by Nationalism and religious ideals. We cannot wave a magic wand and take that away, but we can help make the rights wrong. We cannot do this if those countries continue to support terrorism.
Saddam ? You still insist he is like Bush and Blair. You couldn’t be more wrong;
1)Bush/Blair were elected and are accountable to their political parties and other political institutions, and in the case of Blair, the Queen. Saddam was returned earlier this year in an election with only him running, where approximately 12 million Iraqi’s were never allowed to even vote, where ballots were cast in the open, and where political protestors were imprionsed, and as Amnesty have detailed, killed/tortured.
2)Saddam has used WMDs in non warfare conditions – against the Kurds in Northern Iraq in 1991, killing approx 100 000. Saddam is in breach of UN Security Council Resolutions for 11 years. Saddam has an offensive WMD program. Saddam has numerous presidential palaces which UN inspectors have never gained access to. During the Gulf War over 600 Gulf War prionsers disappeared without trace, including a US Navy pilot who is almost certainly now dead. Bush/Blair have done none of this.
Personal Interest ? Excuse me, but this whole terrorist problem is in the interest of every single person on this planet.
Yes you have had a relative killed and I’m sorry if I offended you in any way. I didn't mean to.
But I don’t want anyone else to lose people because of another attack. We don’t know when the next attack will be, or what it will be. Look at Bali, those people never expected that. Now many are dead. Moscow Theatre Siege; those people went to see a show, and look what happened. Yes, responses are driven by fear, but the fear was created by terorism and is now backlashing onto the terrorists themselves. They started this on 9/11, and the most determined will win.
If there is a biological attack on this country we are all potentially targets.
In June 2001, the US DOD ran a simulation. Based on a release of airborne smallpox in 3 major malls in America at Christmas in Atlanta, Philidelphia, Oklahoma. Estimated reaction time to an attack was at least 3 days before the first signs could be detected. By 9th December it was confirmed as smallpox. 20 cases overall. 10th – 37 cases nationwide. By 15th – 2000 cases, 300 dead, cases in Britain, Mexico, Canada. 22nd – 16 000 cases, beginning of outbreaks in the three previous countries, 100 dead, 200 from the vaccine itself. Martial Law is declared under FEMA statues to allow the military to keep the peace. By February 3 000 000 cases, 1 000 000 have died. Game Over.
The same could happen here, with greater results. Unless we stop them before it happens, or it will happen, one way, one day.
As for you sayin that "I do not agree with you and I will not respect your views and I will now proceed to tell you what to think and why you should take my eyes on this matter". I will not lie and say I respect views on some subjects that do not agree with mine. I'm honest, I will not lie like some and type half heartedly "I respect your views on this". Sure, on all other issues I will, because on those issues I accept there are different views and ways of dealing with them.
On terrorism, there is only one acceptable response in my mind. Wipe out the terrorists. Do not negotiate with them, do not give them freedom, do not let them justify their actions with examples of the past. Do not let them bomb, murder and kill their way to negotiations and concessions. Stop them, and those states who would support them, by all means necessary. Where diplomacy fails, military force must be used.
Truth is Goatboy, you don't accept or respect my views on this either , maybe on other issues, but not this. You say you do, but I doubt it. You go on about how I find your views so totally unacceptable, then do the same to me as you say I do to you. Are you really any better ? I say what I think, and that's freedom.
And as for whether someone wraps themselves in the Stars and Stripes or The Koran. Well it's flipping hard to wrap yourself in the pages of a book isn't it ? And the terrorists are nor of a religion, so The Koran is an unacceptable, to me, image in this phrase. We're not fighting a religion, we're fighting terrorism, and it'd be great if more people could keep that clear because by blurring it it pay into the hands of Bin Laden and other groups.
~~Belldandy~~
As for fundamentalism, you, and nobody outside of Al Queda, can truly understand their cause. You can claim to but you cannot.
And as for your assertion about the Islamic people, I have no problem with them, neither does the rest of the world. It’s the terrorists I have the problem with. They are not Islamic, they are not Muslim, they are not Christian. They are TERRORISTS. I fully understand that the legacy of colonialism, Western intervention, underdevelopment and proxy wars have left a deep mark on many countries, leading to the rise of terrorist organisations motivated by Nationalism and religious ideals. We cannot wave a magic wand and take that away, but we can help make the rights wrong. We cannot do this if those countries continue to support terrorism.
Saddam ? You still insist he is like Bush and Blair. You couldn’t be more wrong;
1)Bush/Blair were elected and are accountable to their political parties and other political institutions, and in the case of Blair, the Queen. Saddam was returned earlier this year in an election with only him running, where approximately 12 million Iraqi’s were never allowed to even vote, where ballots were cast in the open, and where political protestors were imprionsed, and as Amnesty have detailed, killed/tortured.
2)Saddam has used WMDs in non warfare conditions – against the Kurds in Northern Iraq in 1991, killing approx 100 000. Saddam is in breach of UN Security Council Resolutions for 11 years. Saddam has an offensive WMD program. Saddam has numerous presidential palaces which UN inspectors have never gained access to. During the Gulf War over 600 Gulf War prionsers disappeared without trace, including a US Navy pilot who is almost certainly now dead. Bush/Blair have done none of this.
Personal Interest ? Excuse me, but this whole terrorist problem is in the interest of every single person on this planet.
Yes you have had a relative killed and I’m sorry if I offended you in any way. I didn't mean to.
But I don’t want anyone else to lose people because of another attack. We don’t know when the next attack will be, or what it will be. Look at Bali, those people never expected that. Now many are dead. Moscow Theatre Siege; those people went to see a show, and look what happened. Yes, responses are driven by fear, but the fear was created by terorism and is now backlashing onto the terrorists themselves. They started this on 9/11, and the most determined will win.
If there is a biological attack on this country we are all potentially targets.
In June 2001, the US DOD ran a simulation. Based on a release of airborne smallpox in 3 major malls in America at Christmas in Atlanta, Philidelphia, Oklahoma. Estimated reaction time to an attack was at least 3 days before the first signs could be detected. By 9th December it was confirmed as smallpox. 20 cases overall. 10th – 37 cases nationwide. By 15th – 2000 cases, 300 dead, cases in Britain, Mexico, Canada. 22nd – 16 000 cases, beginning of outbreaks in the three previous countries, 100 dead, 200 from the vaccine itself. Martial Law is declared under FEMA statues to allow the military to keep the peace. By February 3 000 000 cases, 1 000 000 have died. Game Over.
The same could happen here, with greater results. Unless we stop them before it happens, or it will happen, one way, one day.
As for you sayin that "I do not agree with you and I will not respect your views and I will now proceed to tell you what to think and why you should take my eyes on this matter". I will not lie and say I respect views on some subjects that do not agree with mine. I'm honest, I will not lie like some and type half heartedly "I respect your views on this". Sure, on all other issues I will, because on those issues I accept there are different views and ways of dealing with them.
On terrorism, there is only one acceptable response in my mind. Wipe out the terrorists. Do not negotiate with them, do not give them freedom, do not let them justify their actions with examples of the past. Do not let them bomb, murder and kill their way to negotiations and concessions. Stop them, and those states who would support them, by all means necessary. Where diplomacy fails, military force must be used.
Truth is Goatboy, you don't accept or respect my views on this either , maybe on other issues, but not this. You say you do, but I doubt it. You go on about how I find your views so totally unacceptable, then do the same to me as you say I do to you. Are you really any better ? I say what I think, and that's freedom.
And as for whether someone wraps themselves in the Stars and Stripes or The Koran. Well it's flipping hard to wrap yourself in the pages of a book isn't it ? And the terrorists are nor of a religion, so The Koran is an unacceptable, to me, image in this phrase. We're not fighting a religion, we're fighting terrorism, and it'd be great if more people could keep that clear because by blurring it it pay into the hands of Bin Laden and other groups.
~~Belldandy~~
You have manboobies, you rule.
On a serious note though, you and I clash heads sometimes but, ultimately, we both have a similar approach to a topic:
You state how you feel, I state how I feel. We may not agree but (mostly) refrain from telling each other "you're wrong" and "rubbish"
Belldandy feels the need to impose his version on everyone instead of just stating his view on a subject and respecting other people's opinions.
On a serious note though, you and I clash heads sometimes but, ultimately, we both have a similar approach to a topic:
You state how you feel, I state how I feel. We may not agree but (mostly) refrain from telling each other "you're wrong" and "rubbish"
Belldandy feels the need to impose his version on everyone instead of just stating his view on a subject and respecting other people's opinions.
Is it correct to believe that you think Belldandy is worse then me?
Actually there's no point discussing this, because we are never going to agree.
What I will say is this:
When I talk about issues, I restrict it to my opinion and how I view events, people and situations. It is solely a personal interpretation of life, the universe and everything.
Whereas you are unable to do that, you feel the need to lord it around like some self-appointed intelligensia of these forums and dictate to others that they are wrong because they disagree with your view.
I disagree with Flanders about his views on religion, and he doesn't agree with my outlook. Yet I consider him a good friend and will talk about religion, because he does not deign to tell me I'm wrong for not believing. Neither do I criticise him for believing.
What I find unacceptable with you Belldandy is not your view on the world, but the manner in which you presume to tell me that I'm wrong.
Who the hell do you think you are to criticise me for my beliefs? By all means discuss them in a reasonable manner, but to post "rubbish" and then lecture me and try to impose your version of "the world" is arrogant, conceited and wrong in every sense.
Think what you will, believe what you will. But your constant mocking of others and refusal to just shut up and allow people to expreses themselves reeks of totalitarianism. "I do not agree with you and I will not respect your views and I will now proceed to tell you what to think and why you should take my eyes on this matter".
That is why I label you a fundamentalist. Not for your views per se, as you make valid points. But your absolute condemnation and arrogance in belittling others that may not take the same path as yourself.
What I will say is this:
When I talk about issues, I restrict it to my opinion and how I view events, people and situations. It is solely a personal interpretation of life, the universe and everything.
Whereas you are unable to do that, you feel the need to lord it around like some self-appointed intelligensia of these forums and dictate to others that they are wrong because they disagree with your view.
I disagree with Flanders about his views on religion, and he doesn't agree with my outlook. Yet I consider him a good friend and will talk about religion, because he does not deign to tell me I'm wrong for not believing. Neither do I criticise him for believing.
What I find unacceptable with you Belldandy is not your view on the world, but the manner in which you presume to tell me that I'm wrong.
Who the hell do you think you are to criticise me for my beliefs? By all means discuss them in a reasonable manner, but to post "rubbish" and then lecture me and try to impose your version of "the world" is arrogant, conceited and wrong in every sense.
Think what you will, believe what you will. But your constant mocking of others and refusal to just shut up and allow people to expreses themselves reeks of totalitarianism. "I do not agree with you and I will not respect your views and I will now proceed to tell you what to think and why you should take my eyes on this matter".
That is why I label you a fundamentalist. Not for your views per se, as you make valid points. But your absolute condemnation and arrogance in belittling others that may not take the same path as yourself.
And that's my point mate.
You're a mindless tool of the military industrial complex.
You'll take any old crap that you're told and defend it to the hilt.
"Your beloved Saddam" you utter fool, you missed the entire point of my post didn't you?
I see Hussein as no hero, I merely understand that what he does is no different to what Bush, Thatcher, Blair, Nixon, Wilson et al have done.
You bang on about Sept 11th, wrapping yourself in the flag of the US and demanding "justice", how is that any different to how the Islamic people view their situation?
You both stand there on the hill, defending your notions of right and wrong and condone bloodshed for what you believe.
You're not better than them, fundamentalists.
You, my friend, lack the ability to say "I disagree with you but hey", you feel this need to start sermonising about why we should all agree and view things from your standpoint.
That is fundamentalism in action, the total unacceptance to try and understand the other person's view but to condemn it because they disagree with you.
Just because you side with The West,doesn't make you right. Just as siding with The Middle East doesn't make them right.
And as for your "Let's honour New York, and the police and the firecrews", I'd take that a lot easier if you actually did something instead of just stabbing people in the chest with your finger and telling us what to do.
I took 2 weeks off work and went out there, primarily for the funeral of my Uncle but I got my hands dirty and helped.
So don't you DARE tell me I'm sympathising with any of these people that murdered my family. The difference between you and me, mate, is that I have a personal stake in that whole sorry, f###ed up business of Sept 11th, I'm not just using it as an excuse to push my fundamentalist views of world policies, who's right and who's wrong.
So if anyone should be polishing their guns and calling for the murder of "them", it should be me.
I appreciate your political views on this, but you have no personal interest vested in this situation, so kindly do not under any circumstance tell me that I side with terrorists, or suggest that I view murderous thugs as anything other than vermin.
I recognise, however, that we are no better.
Murder is murder, whether you're wearing a Stars and Stripes or The Koran.
You're a mindless tool of the military industrial complex.
You'll take any old crap that you're told and defend it to the hilt.
"Your beloved Saddam" you utter fool, you missed the entire point of my post didn't you?
I see Hussein as no hero, I merely understand that what he does is no different to what Bush, Thatcher, Blair, Nixon, Wilson et al have done.
You bang on about Sept 11th, wrapping yourself in the flag of the US and demanding "justice", how is that any different to how the Islamic people view their situation?
You both stand there on the hill, defending your notions of right and wrong and condone bloodshed for what you believe.
You're not better than them, fundamentalists.
You, my friend, lack the ability to say "I disagree with you but hey", you feel this need to start sermonising about why we should all agree and view things from your standpoint.
That is fundamentalism in action, the total unacceptance to try and understand the other person's view but to condemn it because they disagree with you.
Just because you side with The West,doesn't make you right. Just as siding with The Middle East doesn't make them right.
And as for your "Let's honour New York, and the police and the firecrews", I'd take that a lot easier if you actually did something instead of just stabbing people in the chest with your finger and telling us what to do.
I took 2 weeks off work and went out there, primarily for the funeral of my Uncle but I got my hands dirty and helped.
So don't you DARE tell me I'm sympathising with any of these people that murdered my family. The difference between you and me, mate, is that I have a personal stake in that whole sorry, f###ed up business of Sept 11th, I'm not just using it as an excuse to push my fundamentalist views of world policies, who's right and who's wrong.
So if anyone should be polishing their guns and calling for the murder of "them", it should be me.
I appreciate your political views on this, but you have no personal interest vested in this situation, so kindly do not under any circumstance tell me that I side with terrorists, or suggest that I view murderous thugs as anything other than vermin.
I recognise, however, that we are no better.
Murder is murder, whether you're wearing a Stars and Stripes or The Koran.
Goatboy wrote:
> When will people realise?
>
> You believe staunchly in Democracy, Truth, Justice and The American
> Way.
> You feel good when The CIA assasinates people with a bomb because they
> threaten your idea of life (even though you've never been directly
> affected by Al Queda except what you see on the news)
Rubbish.
You know what ? When it reaches the point that Al Queda does threaten the idea of life in this country it will be too late.
> And Belldandy, I'm sick of you mindlessly following anything and
> everything this government and The United States tell you is truth and
> how to think.
And I'm sick of your "lets all live in peace and happyness" attitude that has brought the world to this situation in the first place. You rant on about all these countries in poverty like you care about them, I doubt you do, they are just convenient examples to prove points. And no one will criticise you for it, because it's politically correct. And you all want to feel good about yourselfs for standing up for these poor countries, ignoring facts like these countries often have massive military budgets outweighing they're domestic spending, and that 85% of all charitable donations to NGO's go into admin costs in Western countures.
> Just everyone stop, calm down and breath. Then take a good long look
> at that "terrorist", because you're exactly the same as each
> other.
Rubbish again. A terrorist by definition is not the same as a civlian and never will be, accept to idiots who cannot accept that once someone waves an AK around they are no longer a citizen. Those guys in that car bombed the USS Cole. They killed. I have not killed, I have not bombed military targets without declaring formal war. Wake up and see the difference
>I have been calmly imploring
> everyone I know to end this stupid, retarded cycle of hate and
> violence.
I guarantee that if, by some freak chance, you found yourself in Afghanistan and ran into an Al Queda member, then your talking would do little for you.
> What will it take for you and Mr Muslim to stop, sit down and talk?
> No bombs, no martyrs, no planes, no guns, no assasinations.
> People realising that we are all trying to get through life, we all
> have fears and sufferings.
> Nobody should be able to take the life of another- FOR WHATEVER
> REASON.
GET INTO REALITY. Your beloved Saddam kills hundreds of his own people every year, for such great crimes as opposing his government. Talk is cheap and worthless without the threat of force. Your logic of negotiation only works for countries/organisation that have something to lose from war and conflict. Al Queda have nothing to lose. In their logic Christians should all be killed, along with any who arent "true" believers. Negotiate with that. It's all very high and mighty declaring all life is sacred, of course it is or we would not bother going to war in the first place.
> I dont know the answers, but I do know that killing people in return
> for killing someone is wrong. Just wrong.
Tell me one conflict resolved with negotiation ? the Brits thought they did it in 1939, but damn, those Germans laughed all the way into Europe. Peacemongers caused that. And Peacemongers will be responsible for the next conflict in Iraq. America wanted to finish the job in 1991, but the UN said no. Didn't want the Iraqi people to suffer more. Great idea chaps, they've suffered 11 years at the moment.
> My Uncle died, and no amount of Arab blood will ever change that. I
> dont want anyone else to experience that, to have someone taken away
> for political reasons and blind unthinking hatred.
Political reasons ? They bombed a US navy ship, killed one crewman, adn were probablt plotting more attacks. If it was hatred, yes, who doesn't hate terrorists ? Or do you call them freedom fighters ?
> I'm done on this subject, just think about those left behind before
> you next sit in your office, drinking coffee and say "justice has
> been served".
> Shame on you all.
Same as you always do this. Rant, then declare yourself above the conversation. Shame ? I feel no shame, and I won't be convinced by anyone that the lives of those men would have made the world a better place if they'd been here now.
To preserve life, you have to be prepared to do everything to protect it. Free nations make it very hard for anyone to become the target of their wrath. Whatsmore people like you are still stuck with Cold War ideas that wars are where you line up your troops and clash. You don't anymore, because terrorists and rogue states know that if they do that its the Gulf War all over again. To fight this new war new tactics are needed. Pinpoint strikes, like this one, assasination, special forces e.t.c. Beats carpet bombing and cruise missile strikes doesn't it ? The only other way to ge those men, alive, would be to ask others to risk their lives to snatch them. Why should people be risked for scum like that ?
~~Belldandy~~
> When will people realise?
>
> You believe staunchly in Democracy, Truth, Justice and The American
> Way.
> You feel good when The CIA assasinates people with a bomb because they
> threaten your idea of life (even though you've never been directly
> affected by Al Queda except what you see on the news)
Rubbish.
You know what ? When it reaches the point that Al Queda does threaten the idea of life in this country it will be too late.
> And Belldandy, I'm sick of you mindlessly following anything and
> everything this government and The United States tell you is truth and
> how to think.
And I'm sick of your "lets all live in peace and happyness" attitude that has brought the world to this situation in the first place. You rant on about all these countries in poverty like you care about them, I doubt you do, they are just convenient examples to prove points. And no one will criticise you for it, because it's politically correct. And you all want to feel good about yourselfs for standing up for these poor countries, ignoring facts like these countries often have massive military budgets outweighing they're domestic spending, and that 85% of all charitable donations to NGO's go into admin costs in Western countures.
> Just everyone stop, calm down and breath. Then take a good long look
> at that "terrorist", because you're exactly the same as each
> other.
Rubbish again. A terrorist by definition is not the same as a civlian and never will be, accept to idiots who cannot accept that once someone waves an AK around they are no longer a citizen. Those guys in that car bombed the USS Cole. They killed. I have not killed, I have not bombed military targets without declaring formal war. Wake up and see the difference
>I have been calmly imploring
> everyone I know to end this stupid, retarded cycle of hate and
> violence.
I guarantee that if, by some freak chance, you found yourself in Afghanistan and ran into an Al Queda member, then your talking would do little for you.
> What will it take for you and Mr Muslim to stop, sit down and talk?
> No bombs, no martyrs, no planes, no guns, no assasinations.
> People realising that we are all trying to get through life, we all
> have fears and sufferings.
> Nobody should be able to take the life of another- FOR WHATEVER
> REASON.
GET INTO REALITY. Your beloved Saddam kills hundreds of his own people every year, for such great crimes as opposing his government. Talk is cheap and worthless without the threat of force. Your logic of negotiation only works for countries/organisation that have something to lose from war and conflict. Al Queda have nothing to lose. In their logic Christians should all be killed, along with any who arent "true" believers. Negotiate with that. It's all very high and mighty declaring all life is sacred, of course it is or we would not bother going to war in the first place.
> I dont know the answers, but I do know that killing people in return
> for killing someone is wrong. Just wrong.
Tell me one conflict resolved with negotiation ? the Brits thought they did it in 1939, but damn, those Germans laughed all the way into Europe. Peacemongers caused that. And Peacemongers will be responsible for the next conflict in Iraq. America wanted to finish the job in 1991, but the UN said no. Didn't want the Iraqi people to suffer more. Great idea chaps, they've suffered 11 years at the moment.
> My Uncle died, and no amount of Arab blood will ever change that. I
> dont want anyone else to experience that, to have someone taken away
> for political reasons and blind unthinking hatred.
Political reasons ? They bombed a US navy ship, killed one crewman, adn were probablt plotting more attacks. If it was hatred, yes, who doesn't hate terrorists ? Or do you call them freedom fighters ?
> I'm done on this subject, just think about those left behind before
> you next sit in your office, drinking coffee and say "justice has
> been served".
> Shame on you all.
Same as you always do this. Rant, then declare yourself above the conversation. Shame ? I feel no shame, and I won't be convinced by anyone that the lives of those men would have made the world a better place if they'd been here now.
To preserve life, you have to be prepared to do everything to protect it. Free nations make it very hard for anyone to become the target of their wrath. Whatsmore people like you are still stuck with Cold War ideas that wars are where you line up your troops and clash. You don't anymore, because terrorists and rogue states know that if they do that its the Gulf War all over again. To fight this new war new tactics are needed. Pinpoint strikes, like this one, assasination, special forces e.t.c. Beats carpet bombing and cruise missile strikes doesn't it ? The only other way to ge those men, alive, would be to ask others to risk their lives to snatch them. Why should people be risked for scum like that ?
~~Belldandy~~
Stick your Helmet on, and you got yoself a party.
pizza may make for bigger manboobs, but I can move mine up and down without jumping around like a loon.
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