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Personally, I'm in favour of it. These guys put their lives on the line day after day, and they deserve a decent salary for doing it. It must really grate that some footballers get more than double their annual salary in a week, all for kicking a ball around for a maximum of three hours a week.
40% may seem high, but considering they'll probably only get half that (if anything), then it's fair play. They always say you should ask for double what you actually want!
I appreciate that a strike may put lives at risk, but that's something held over them by government - and if they don't strike, they'll continue getting screwed.
40% may seem high, but considering they'll probably only get half that (if anything), then it's fair play. They always say you should ask for double what you actually want!
I appreciate that a strike may put lives at risk, but that's something held over them by government - and if they don't strike, they'll continue getting screwed.
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sell even...
Tony wrote:
> (yes, I would prefer the value of my house to go down)
Only because you don't mean to seel it.
> (yes, I would prefer the value of my house to go down)
Only because you don't mean to seel it.
Splendide mendax wrote:
> It is taken from the EU figures of the comparative cost of living in
> each European country. It takes into consideration all economic
> factors including taxation etc.
>
> So - yes you can just convert the wages.....
Got the website address for that ?
~~Belldandy~~
> It is taken from the EU figures of the comparative cost of living in
> each European country. It takes into consideration all economic
> factors including taxation etc.
>
> So - yes you can just convert the wages.....
Got the website address for that ?
~~Belldandy~~
Sinnott wrote:
> Well how about that the current housing boom means that firefighters
> along with many other public servants cannot currently afford to live
> in London and vast areas of the country on their current wage...
I hasten to point out that this affects everybody, not just public servants.
The way to deal with it is simple in my opinion, in fact it should have already been dealt with, but probably won't be due to too many vested interests.
Q. House prices are too high, why?
A. It's a better investment than the stock market.
Therefore the Government should cap rents. They should be forced in line with a multiple of the council tax, or some similar formula. This would have the double effect of reducing house prices and allowing affordable accommodation, to the benefit of everybody.
It would considerably ease the pressure on wage inflation.
(yes, I would prefer the value of my house to go down)
> Well how about that the current housing boom means that firefighters
> along with many other public servants cannot currently afford to live
> in London and vast areas of the country on their current wage...
I hasten to point out that this affects everybody, not just public servants.
The way to deal with it is simple in my opinion, in fact it should have already been dealt with, but probably won't be due to too many vested interests.
Q. House prices are too high, why?
A. It's a better investment than the stock market.
Therefore the Government should cap rents. They should be forced in line with a multiple of the council tax, or some similar formula. This would have the double effect of reducing house prices and allowing affordable accommodation, to the benefit of everybody.
It would considerably ease the pressure on wage inflation.
(yes, I would prefer the value of my house to go down)
Insane Bartender wrote:
> But given the supply/demand model, if there is already a sizeable
> queue of people wishing to join the firefighting service at the wage
> they get now, then surely excessive supply for relatively little
> demand dictates that they get paid fairly already.
This is what it comes down to in this post-Thatcher world aint it. Personally i dont think all things should be governed by market forces and capitalist structures, certainly not public servants pay! Still ive made my points and i wont change anybodys mind just like you wont change mine!
Guess ill leave this debate to the shameful tabloids to cheapen with their lies. I mean did you see that piece about Union bosses being Saddams mates! Disgraceful!
> But given the supply/demand model, if there is already a sizeable
> queue of people wishing to join the firefighting service at the wage
> they get now, then surely excessive supply for relatively little
> demand dictates that they get paid fairly already.
This is what it comes down to in this post-Thatcher world aint it. Personally i dont think all things should be governed by market forces and capitalist structures, certainly not public servants pay! Still ive made my points and i wont change anybodys mind just like you wont change mine!
Guess ill leave this debate to the shameful tabloids to cheapen with their lies. I mean did you see that piece about Union bosses being Saddams mates! Disgraceful!
No, it's fairly simple. If they can't afford to live in london, either move somewhere else, or change jobs. If no-one can afford to live with the wage, no-one will work for it. With a shortage of people wanting the job in a given area, the wage will be increased to increase supply of people willing to take the job.
Not hard is it? And how you can say that Union has been doing its job I don't know. Not properly pressing for significant wage increases for decades? Clever. If they'd been doing their jobs, the firefighters would have gained several incremental - and manageable - wage increases over the years. 3% here, 4% there. Instead, they're left with "a salary formula over 20 years old", and are having to make outrageous demands to make up for their malfeasance.
But given the supply/demand model, if there is already a sizeable queue of people wishing to join the firefighting service at the wage they get now, then surely excessive supply for relatively little demand dictates that they get paid fairly already.
Personally, I believe this:
Yes, give the London firefighters a raise, along with a few others in the surrounding counties. The rest can swivel.
Not hard is it? And how you can say that Union has been doing its job I don't know. Not properly pressing for significant wage increases for decades? Clever. If they'd been doing their jobs, the firefighters would have gained several incremental - and manageable - wage increases over the years. 3% here, 4% there. Instead, they're left with "a salary formula over 20 years old", and are having to make outrageous demands to make up for their malfeasance.
But given the supply/demand model, if there is already a sizeable queue of people wishing to join the firefighting service at the wage they get now, then surely excessive supply for relatively little demand dictates that they get paid fairly already.
Personally, I believe this:
Yes, give the London firefighters a raise, along with a few others in the surrounding counties. The rest can swivel.
Insane Bartender wrote:
> I've yet to see a decent argument as to why they should. All people
> rant about is "ooh, they riskj their lives".
Well how about that the current housing boom means that firefighters along with many other public servants cannot currently afford to live in London and vast areas of the country on their current wage, even with token allowances for living in London equated in! And as for the union not doing its job over the last 20 years, well that just shows your ignorance on the whole subject. The firefighters union is one of the few that DID do its job through the Tory years, protecting its workers rights, pension etc etc. As for the last five years as with all the unions the FBU was kept quite by New Labour's threats of 'strike and the Tories win!'
They, along with many other unions have had enough! They finally see a government raising taxes for public services and rightfully believe their due a significant pay increase. When you remember all those budget speeches Gordons done talking about wage increases for nurses, teachers and others dont you think he forgot a certain group of critical public servants? Ah yes, the Firefighters!
> I've yet to see a decent argument as to why they should. All people
> rant about is "ooh, they riskj their lives".
Well how about that the current housing boom means that firefighters along with many other public servants cannot currently afford to live in London and vast areas of the country on their current wage, even with token allowances for living in London equated in! And as for the union not doing its job over the last 20 years, well that just shows your ignorance on the whole subject. The firefighters union is one of the few that DID do its job through the Tory years, protecting its workers rights, pension etc etc. As for the last five years as with all the unions the FBU was kept quite by New Labour's threats of 'strike and the Tories win!'
They, along with many other unions have had enough! They finally see a government raising taxes for public services and rightfully believe their due a significant pay increase. When you remember all those budget speeches Gordons done talking about wage increases for nurses, teachers and others dont you think he forgot a certain group of critical public servants? Ah yes, the Firefighters!
Sinnott wrote:
> I seriously cannot believe you dont think they should be paid more!
I've yet to see a decent argument as to why they should. All people rant about is "ooh, they riskj their lives". They knew they'd be risking their lives (though they seldomly do) when they signed up for the pay system that they have now. So, they were content with what they have, so what has chenged? Has the quality of the service improved by 40%?
No. The reason for all this fuss is that the union is composed entirely of ignorant philistines, who didn';t do their jobs for years on end, and now believe that by holding the country to ransom, they can compensate for their own malfeasance.
Yes, malfeasance, no other word better fits their complete lack of competence in this matter.
> I seriously cannot believe you dont think they should be paid more!
I've yet to see a decent argument as to why they should. All people rant about is "ooh, they riskj their lives". They knew they'd be risking their lives (though they seldomly do) when they signed up for the pay system that they have now. So, they were content with what they have, so what has chenged? Has the quality of the service improved by 40%?
No. The reason for all this fuss is that the union is composed entirely of ignorant philistines, who didn';t do their jobs for years on end, and now believe that by holding the country to ransom, they can compensate for their own malfeasance.
Yes, malfeasance, no other word better fits their complete lack of competence in this matter.
Belldandy wrote:
>
> Er yes they are (comparable that is) and in Germany the comparative
> value of the pound would be worth an extra 2p. so their 14K-16K
> would
> be worth about 14280 - 16320 in this country - so yes they are worse
> off than our firemen.
>
> You cannot just convert the wages...where does that take into account
> variables like taxation, cost of living e.t.c Oh it doesn't does
> it....
It is taken from the EU figures of the comparative cost of living in each European country. It takes into consideration all economic factors including taxation etc.
So - yes you can just convert the wages.....
>
> Er yes they are (comparable that is) and in Germany the comparative
> value of the pound would be worth an extra 2p. so their 14K-16K
> would
> be worth about 14280 - 16320 in this country - so yes they are worse
> off than our firemen.
>
> You cannot just convert the wages...where does that take into account
> variables like taxation, cost of living e.t.c Oh it doesn't does
> it....
It is taken from the EU figures of the comparative cost of living in each European country. It takes into consideration all economic factors including taxation etc.
So - yes you can just convert the wages.....
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